FCA, you can't keep ignoring your ageing platforms by throwing a hellcat motor in them.

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 08/29/2020 at 23:59 • Filed to: None

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That’s the post. :P

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:05

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Spanfeller is a twat > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/30/2020 at 00:09

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*crumbles like papier mache after a 35mph crash* 

Gerry197 > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:09

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They clearly have milked this cow and it’s been absolutely profitable for them. The HC motor cars become halo vehicles that also bring in traffic and help sell the rest of their old stuff.

The Challengersaurus and Chargersaurus have been around forever, even longer if you consider the fact the platform they ride on star ted off as an even older Mercedes platform.

However, with their recent updates and cosmetic tweaks, they are quite attractive cars on platforms that have paid themselves many times over, purely cash making machines and actually selling well in a world where coupes and sedans are going away.

But they are planning on upgrading these old car platforms soon, just that their even bigger cash cows, RAM trucks and Jeeps needed the updates first which has paid off tremendously, especially with the current RAMs. I suspect they will do the same for the Challenger/Charger. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:10

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Yes, but also I like the Durango a lot. And a Hellcat Durango is so cool 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:10

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not if you have a giant mass of hellcat. Then you hammer on through

wafflesnfalafel > Gerry197 08/30/2020 at 00:18

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right - and honestly I’m not so sure the newer but Fiat based platforms will be better...

Gerry197 > wafflesnfalafel 08/30/2020 at 00:21

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Absolutely, I mean you got a tried and true platform, great looks and a price tag that is accessible.

While the Mustang and Camaro have moved to sports car territory and pricing, the Challenger has stayed true to it’s GT roots and that’s what a lot of people are looking for.

A big comfortable V8 powered cruiser at a reasonable price, at least their R/T versions.

ranwhenparked > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:25

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Everyone knows age is just some number the police use to decide who you can date. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:29

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Now that I think of it I just can't think of the last time I saw a Durango at all. You'd think it would sell better than it does.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:31

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You have a point.

But you might also be wrong...

It’s a grey area.

A smokey, grey area...

(yes I know that’s a plain “vanilla” SRT Durango in my GIF)

onlytwowheels > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:35

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I don’t understand why there is a big concern over platform age. Many of the most iconic vehicles have been built on long running platforms. Constant change does not make a vehicle better. If it works well, and regular improvements are made to keep it interes ting, then build it for as long as people want it.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 08/30/2020 at 00:35

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The cheap ones are boring and a little dated... The fun ones (which are also better updated) are not so cheap.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/30/2020 at 00:38

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Are they any worse than the Grand Cherokee though? Dang, that car is actually old at this point. I'm old.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > onlytwowheels 08/30/2020 at 00:44

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JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 08/30/2020 at 00:47

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Equipment and interior refinement on the lower price Durangos is a bit lacking. At least the GC is finished nic ely inside at the lower price points. 

The Ghost of Oppo > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:47

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FCA: Oh yeah? hold my beers

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:49

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Actually...

SmugAardvark > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 00:53

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I’m still waiting for a Dodge Aries Hellcat. C’mon FCA, let’s make it happen.

Spanfeller is a twat > onlytwowheels 08/30/2020 at 00:59

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why am I concerned about age?

Because of handling, safety, and weight. Older platforms are designed with fewer technological aids, and with worse manufacturing techniques in mind. Obviously it varies by automaker (Maybe Dacia today has the manufacturing techniques that Porsche could afford 10 years ago) but as a massive “in general” newer is usually better in regards to weight, handling, and safety.   

SmugAardvark > SmugAardvark 08/30/2020 at 01:00

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Look, I already did the hard work.

onlytwowheels > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/30/2020 at 01:01

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1955 CJ5

1983 CJ5

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/30/2020 at 01:10

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Other than being different, the Durango really doesn't have much going for it over the vastly more popular GC.

onlytwowheels > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 01:44

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Maybe one of those is correct, safety. Most new cars models trend to grow in size and gain weight. H andling improvements are not a guarantee over the previous model. Usually a performance improvement can be found in the addition of hp and torque.

Throw a set of  magnetorheological dampers on any older model platform and tell me the handling won’t be considerably improved.

Jb boin > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 01:48

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The Dacias are still mostly based on previous Renault platforms but all the models are getting replaced on the next 2 years by models sharing the platform of the current Renaults (that are mostly all new ) as they plan to sell hybrids and models that will do better in term of CO2/Km as there are huge taxes if the average per car sold for a group is too high.

Spanfeller is a twat > Jb boin 08/30/2020 at 01:54

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I don’t think Da cia is an inherently bad manufacturer, it’s just that you can’t use very sophisticated manufacturing techniques when making 10,000 dollar cars, as opposed to Porsche than can sell a car practically for whatever sum they want while also having the backing of the VW group .

Spanfeller is a twat > onlytwowheels 08/30/2020 at 01:58

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I concede that cars have mostly gone up in weight, but there are some notable examples, the range rover sport shed like 150-200 kg from the 1st to the second generation, and the ND miata is lighter than the NC. The new 3er is also lighter than the old one.

As for handling, I mean in the sense of chassis stiffness... which isn’t necessarily linked to newer plat forms.

and yes, dampers can transform a vehicle.

onlytwowheels > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 02:10

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Chassis stiffness can be enhanced by additional bracing, gusseting or use of high strength steel. A new platform is not needed for this either.

Some new vehicle have in fact gone on a weight loss program, a much larger percentage have gone in the opposite direction.

Use of lighter material usually brings a higher cost, whether it is carbon fiber or aluminum. A new vehicle platform is also a considerable expense. An older platform can be improved regularly and not come any where near the expense of an all new one to be developed.

For Sweden > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 02:14

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The hell they can’t

Jb boin > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 02:14

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It’s actually usually the contrary as mass production cars and platforms gets more R&D and investment to make them as cheap and simple to produce and evolve as possible while a niche market car will usually have to use some parts, technologies or tooling made initially for cheaper mass market cars.

Jb boin > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 02:19

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New car generations from around 2000 to 2010 got sensibly heavier and usually bigger while keeping the same model names.

For example, the Golf 4 is about the same size as the newer Polo generations and the Golf 5 was more than 100kg more for a similar engine/options.

Since then, latest generations have usually lost weight (but still not all) and size doesn’t change much anymore.

Longtime Lurker > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 08/30/2020 at 02:28

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Durango has a third row. And that's the only advantage.

gmctavish needs more space > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 03:36

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Eh, I think it’s working pretty well for them. I want a Challenger more than a Mustang or Camaro, and a Charger more than the RWD Chev and Ford sedans that don’t exist 

Spanfeller is a twat > Jb boin 08/30/2020 at 03:43

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Yeah, but the FCA ones got stuck in peak glut. Think of the Jeep GC; its like 2.4 tons! 

Spanfeller is a twat > onlytwowheels 08/30/2020 at 03:45

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Again, it was in general. To me it’s inevitable that cars get better over time thanks to the tools available for design and for manufacturing. Some objectives changed, like safety has in the last thirty or so years... But nonetheless... Manufacturing technology and computer science has just improved since the 90s as well. 

Spanfeller is a twat > Jb boin 08/30/2020 at 03:48

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I think im not explaining myself correctly,

volume affords such and such, higher cost allowances per product allows such and such... When you mix the two together you get the available tech for each product.

I don’t doubt Dacia has the edge on volume, but Porsche probably has the edge on cost allowances, and so they might get a glue placing robot rather than a ribeting robot, or carbon fiber parts rather than steel parts, etc

Usually, after more time passes and higher end brands adopt them, processes that were expensive on a per-unit basis become cheaper and as such end up in cheaper cars.

On the other end, sometimes processes that required very high volumes to be useful become cheaper as well and low volume brands can use them too. A moot point, really, since Porsche belongs to VWAG and they can have their corporate overlords lend them a hand whenever they want some cheap shit they wouldn’t be able to afford at their current volume... Think of the base model Macan’s engine... Or like 90% of the Cayenne and such. 

Spanfeller is a twat > gmctavish needs more space 08/30/2020 at 03:57

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I like the Challenger... But the only FCA product I would buy, really, is another Jeep GC. 

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 06:23

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If North Americans keep buying them in sufficient numbers then I don’t think FCA’ s French (sorry, Dutc h) masters are interested to a level greater than three fifths of fuck all.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > gmctavish needs more space 08/30/2020 at 07:19

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Same! I am not a big car person, or a sedan person for that matter, but if I could get even a normal, non-Hellcat Charger with a manual transmission, I’d go for it....I quite like the styling on them.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 07:21

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I wish they sold Dacia over here.....I love cheap, basic cars without a bunch of fancy extra stuff....we don’t get that in Canada anymore. Everything is crossovers filled with all the tech they can shove into it. I can’t get anything like my Accent anymore :(

My bird IS the word > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 08:19

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I'm not sure that the tech is evolving quick enough for it to make sense. My guess is they are trying to maximize their ROI. Personally I would prefer a strategy that didnt involve car companies re-inventing the wheel every new model and to improve durability by constantly refining the parts they already make like switches, motors, accessories ect.

newnamesameme > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 08:57

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I endorse this message. Fact check - true. 

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 09:09

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“Oh yeah? Just watch us!”

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Longtime Lurker 08/30/2020 at 10:33

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They might find more takers if people knew that. 

fhrblig > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 10:57

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If they stop doing that before we get a Fiat 500 Hellcat, I’m holding you personally responsible.

DipodomysDeserti > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 11:05

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Yes you can, FCA, don’t listen to this man. He buys Korean cars.

Spanfeller is a twat > DipodomysDeserti 08/30/2020 at 13:14

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I won’t pay for the couples therapy between the marketing staff and the regulatory compliance  staff...

DipodomysDeserti > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 13:20

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I don’t think we’ll have vehicle regulations in the US in a few years ;)

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 13:36

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What fundamental physics have changed? Good Kinematics and metallurgy are still good... Maybe slight incremental improvements have been made in the last ~10 years... and maybe more use of aluminum in leu of steel.

Vs.

What fundamental regulations have changed? ALL SORTS... more complexity, and more federalization expenses... more recalls, more points of potential unreliability, more compromise for trying to meet confilicting regulations, such as both fuel economy (benefits from less mass) , and increased safety . (which almost invariably adds significant mass)

Spanfeller is a twat > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 08/30/2020 at 13:48

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Its not necessarily the material science; its the manufacturing capacity; we’ve had carbon fiber race cars for decades now, but the first true mass production carbon fiber passenger car was the BMW i3 just a few years ago. With time, better manufacturing techniques allow for more complicated designs which inevitably yield better results in a mass produced product. Be it weight, safety, or even handling as a result of first two efforts combined .

It’s one of the reasons why some vehicles have gotten lighter in the last generation or two, despite the very demanding regulations, thanks to many advancements, some in manufacturing, car makers can bring more complicated, lighter designs to market.

Spanfeller is a twat > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 08/30/2020 at 14:09

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Compare the W166 with the V167 Mercedes SUVS. The W166 is a chassis similar to the WK2 as far as I’ve understood, while the V167 is the newest chassis for the GLE class.

it’s 5% lighter . If the Jeep WK2 lost 5% of it’s weight, it’d be over 100 kg lighter.

Jb boin > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 14:22

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Yep, we agree to agree :)

The Dacias are actually sensibly lighter than similar Renaults because they are “simpler” with less soft materials and dampening and base models are quite bare without electric back windows or AC .

The current generation Logan (small sedan) and Sandero (similar to the Clio in size) are less than a ton in base model where both the Clio 4 and 5 are over 1200Kg .

Discerning > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 20:10

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Having driven a Durango and a grand cherokee while looking at SUV’s, I completely agree with this sentiment. FCA lags behind their competitors in this market for someone like me.

The grand cherokee was particularly disappointing. The interior was seriously lacking for a $70k suv. Yes, the acceleration was decent, but it actually didn’t feel any quicker than a base Cayenne or the B58 X5. I know it is quicker, but it really didn’t feel like it had over 100hp more than those two. They seemed not much different in most scenarios on our test drives. And they feel like a Rolls Royce compared to the sad interior in the Jeep.

Spanfeller is a twat > Discerning 08/30/2020 at 20:16

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You’re in Canada, right? I cannot imagine a 70k Grand Cherokee unless it’s an SRT or a trackhawk... 

Discerning > Spanfeller is a twat 08/30/2020 at 20:39

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US. Should hav e clarified that it was in fact an SRT. I think the actual sticker was closer to 80k. Hence why I was so disappointed by the performance too. I would have thought nearly 500hp would feel quicker but it felt weak.

Spanfeller is a twat > Discerning 08/30/2020 at 21:31

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I think that the Jeep really needs the Hellcat to feel “sporty” since its a 2.5 ton elephant.

I understand the cabin isnt as lux thom..