COVID School in Georgia

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
08/09/2020 at 16:09 • Filed to: None

Nine people test positive for the coronavirus at Georgia school where photos of packed hallways went viral

Ex ecutive Summary (Full Text Below):

A high school in Georgia reopens, full open.

Student(s) post picture of jamm ed hallway on Twitter and picture goes viral.

Student(s) get suspended for posting picture on Twitter.

Six students and three staff members test COVID-positive.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

By Derek HawkinscloseDerek HawkinsNational and breaking news reporterEmailEmailBioBioFollowFollow

A cluster of novel coronavirus cases has emerged at the Georgia high school that drew national attention last week after students posted pictures and videos of their peers walking without mask in tightly packed hallways, according to a letter sent to parents over the weekend.

Six students and three staff members at North Paulding High School have reported testing positive for the virus, Principal Gabe Carmona wrote in the letter, which was first reported by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. He said the infected people were in school “for at least some time” last week.

The infections validate concerns in Georgia and around the country that crowded conditions in the nation’s K-12 schools could facilitate virus transmission as the new academic year begins. Young people develop severe infections at far lower rates than adults, but experts warn they could be vectors for infecting more vulnerable populations, such as older relatives in the same household.

As states decide whether to open schools in the fall, teachers across the country worry their lives are being put at risk. (James Cornsilk, Joyce Koh, Ashleigh Joplin/The Washington Post)

Carmona said custodial workers were cleaning and disinfecting the school building daily — a practice that offers only marginal protections against the virus, which p rimarily spreads through person-to-person contact, not from contaminated surfaces.

“The health and well-being of our staff and students remains our highest priority,” Carmona said, “and we are continuing to adjust and improve our protocols for in- person instruction to make our school the safest possible learning environment.”

A representative for the Paulding County School District did not immediately respond to a request for comment Sunday.

The school of more than 2,000 in Dallas, Ga., was thrown into the national spotlight last week when students posted images on social media showing seas of students milling through the halls between classes. The school district suspended two students who shared the images, prompting another wave of negative attention from critics who said administrators were silencing them. Administrators reversed the suspensions on Friday following the backlash.

Lynne Watters, the mother of one of the students, said her daughter would be able to return to school Monday with her disciplinary record unblemished. “The principal just said that they were very sorry for any negative attention that this has brought upon her,” Watters said in a text message, “and that in the future they would like for her to come to the administration with any safety concerns she has.”

Officials have continually sought to downplay concerns generated by images of the crowded corridors. On Wednesday, Paulding County Schools Superintendent Brian Otott told parents in a letter that while the photo “does not look good,” the conditions were permissible under the Georgia Department of Education’s health recommendations.

The superintendent also misleadingly cited a state health department document listing the different ways people can become infected with the coronavirus. He claimed that exposure occurs after “Being within 6 feet of a sick person with COVID-19 for about 15 minutes” but omitted other factors such as being coughed on that can cause the virus to spread faster and more directly.

Lateshia Beachum contributed to this report.

8/9/2020, 12:45 PM

DISCUSSION (83)

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 16:17

I’m not one for much legal action, but if my kid got suspended for that, I would absolutely sue that district.

Under_Score > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 16:23

Please keep Corona fear mongering away from here, okay? This school is close to me (I’ve even been there before in 2014) , and even liberal people in my area aren’t talking about corona anymore . Students can stay home or go to school, and if they get sick, that’s a risk they took. It’s wrong she got suspended, but she didn’t even have to be there in the first place.

I literally stopped checking local news because all they want to talk about is corona again. I was checking here still because corona talk died down, too. Just let these people be. We’re tired of corona around here.

shop-teacher > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 16:31

“ and if they get sick, that’s a risk they took.”

This logic does not apply to minors. Minors don’t have that kind of autonomy. If their parents say they have to go to school, they have to go to school.

If you don’t want to read about it, don’t click on it. I don’t watch the news either, but I’m happy to discuss something with a fellow Oppo. That’s a different thing.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 16:33

After the initial news about the student being suspended and the following outcry, the school reversed the decision.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Just wanted to make that clear.

sony1492 > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 16:36

If oppo stopped talking about events unrelated to cars I’ d have left several years ago. The title clearly explained what you were about to read

TheRealBicycleBuck > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 16:44

I don’t see this as fear-mongering. The reporter does a good job of reporting the facts:

- The school was warned about opening
- Reasonable m ask protocol wasn’t followed by the students (although it was within the recommendations of the Georgia Board of Education)
- The whistleblowers were suspended by the school
- The whistleblowers were no longer suspended
- Several students and teachers have now contracted the virus

TheRealBicycleBuck > shop-teacher
08/09/2020 at 16:45

Read to the bottom of the article. The national attention led to the school reversing the decision. It’s easy to miss.

Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer > shop-teacher
08/09/2020 at 16:49

I live in a teacher house, I second this.

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher
08/09/2020 at 17:04

Apparently, the student violated the policy about publishing photos of other students, hence the suspension.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn
08/09/2020 at 17:08

I have no doubt, I figured that from day 1, but the picture is of unsafe conditions. I bet a jury would side with me.

AestheticsInMotion > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 17:08

If only being tired of a virus could make it go away

shop-teacher > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/09/2020 at 17:08

I don’t think them reversing the decision based on being called out, protects them from their terrible initial decision.

bshappy > AestheticsInMotion
08/09/2020 at 17:20

Cannot star this enough. My Aunt the other day said something along the lines of “I’m just so over the virus”, and I was like seriously? The virus does not care in the least how over it you are.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 17:21

We’re all very tired from coronavirus, but guess what, it’s still here!

bshappy > shop-teacher
08/09/2020 at 17:21

The ACLU would have a field day with them.

thatsmr > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 17:36

Da Nile is more than a river in Egypt. Its a way of life!

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > bshappy
08/09/2020 at 17:38

It’s as dumb as people who say “well viruses tend to mutate into less lethal strains ” Well guess what, you can’t control a coin toss of a mutation. There is no thought “how can I spread easier”

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
08/09/2020 at 18:20

Yeah, that’s the cover they used, but if their school is like my school, there are signs everywhere saying that everyone’s on video, and it’s not like they published a picture of one student, or even a group of students; it was a mass of students. It’s a very thin claim and more like MAGA people shaming whistle blowers.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher
08/09/2020 at 18:21

Please see my reply to Ttyymmnn above.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher
08/09/2020 at 18:21

Or even from further political blowback.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/09/2020 at 18:22

Shaming the whistle blowers. It’s a tactic we’re seeing too much of these days.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 18:30

It’s close to home for me, too, my friend. My wife and I are both educators and my wife is compromised. If President Trump were not a narcissistic imbecile, he’d have had the country on a mask wearing kick early on and we’d all be reentering the economy and our schools in a measured, metered, and very likely successful way and, I might point out, he’d likely be sailing on to his second term.

Whether or not we talk about corona , here it is and we are left as a nation of individuals to form tribes who either work to mitigate the risk or say buggar all and just go breathe on each other. Which would be fine if the latter tribe agreed not to trouble the hospitals with their sorry selves when they get sick.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 19:38

At least in our district, all students have to sign a waiver to allow their picture to be published anywhere--yearbook, website, etc. When I was PTA historian, there were very strict rules about how I could use the pictures. I ended up printing them and posting them on a bulletin board in the hallway. One year, we helped go through all the yearbooks to paste over a kid whose picture was published without permission. So I do believe that such a rule could and would exist at this school. I do find it refreshing that the admin backed down on the suspension, though.

onlytwowheels > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 20:14

My brother lives in GA and has elected to keep his 2 youngest kids home. The oldest one may or may not be returning to a university dorm, that decision is still pending.

fintail > Under_Score
08/09/2020 at 20:24

You knew what you were getting into when you clicked the link. Nobody made you do it, scrolling is easy.

I like the first world, but Georgia is cool too, fun place to visit.

fintail > bshappy
08/09/2020 at 20:24

I love it when intelligent credentialed people nail these small town shitheads to the wall.

At the very least, those who approved the suspension should be named and let it follow them around for awhile.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 20:26

Like Fauci and Rebekah Jones. Oh, look which narrative they support.

Darkest dumbest timeline.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 20:32

My sister is heading back tom orrow to a private school that will not be requiring masks. I’m worried. It just seems reckless and I don’t anticipate them staying open long given the sort of behavior I’ve seen.

I honestly feel safer on campus here in Atlanta than if I were to go back there like during my senior year. I don't understand the rational behind that. Some sort of hybrid setup where one crowd goes to school in the evenings and another goes to school in the morning just makes more sense and would alleviate many of these concerns.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
08/09/2020 at 20:33

I’ve been saying this: if Donald Trump were not a narcissistic imbecile, he’d have had the country wearing masks in April and we’d be actively reintegrating into the economy right now and he would be sailing into his second term.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
08/09/2020 at 20:35

Our district is an opt out. You have to explicitly state that you do not want your picture printed anywhere.

I do find it refreshing that the admin backed down on the suspension, though.

I would not be surprised if there were further political blowback on that one.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
08/09/2020 at 20:37

(I think the word you want is rationale... )

I am not a fan of the hybrid the way you state it because I think it is impractical. I think the hybridized scheme that makes more sense it to have the secondary students on Zoom and use the empty classrooms to spread out the primary grades.

Is going to that private school sans a mask your sister’s choice?

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 20:40

Not just the demented (as in dementia) thing in- chief, but the hordes who are hellbent on being deporable in the name of “freedom” and socking it to the “liberals” - their own well-being be damned. Seems familiar, when have we seen this before? Oh yeah.

Look how other developed nations are handling this, then look at the US . Exceptionalism lol.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
08/09/2020 at 20:46

Intoxicated by the notion of power .

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 20:49

And/or the idea of fucking someone else over.

Also, most of these types yearn to lick the boots of an authoritarian leader. 45 wishes he was Putin, Jinping, Duterte, etc. Law and order! And other droning bullshit of the so-called right.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 20:59

She will be wearing a mask and wants to go. None of us appreciate the attitudes of the faculty that feel invincible for some reason and think that masks are “ maybe kinda ok at things that maybe kinda work but who knows," ignoring the hard science that people WILL get sick.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
08/09/2020 at 21:07

A subplot of all this that I find fascinating, two examples: Sean Spicer and that doofus SECNAV. Oh, and Anthony Scary Moocher. They illuminate how being a Donald Trump or a Poutine or a Jin Ping or a Doo Tare Tea require a certain skill set that the other three posers I mentioned do not possess. That lot would have probably been executed in North Korea. We are being given a similitude of what happens in an actual totalitarian state. And the boot lickers and turd polishers and fluffers all look like Trump; i.e., white , so they think it’s all great. Originality of the Constitution and all of that. And the bigoted sheriff from Arizona actually came close to getting elected back into his old job...

The post mortem is going to be very entertaining, except for the part where someone has to try and put things back together and none of our historic allies trust us any more, not that I blame them. The rest of the Republicans have been taking notes.

If I were elected president, one of the first things I’d do in January is promote Alexander Vindman to colonel, or possibly, to brigadier, in retirement. Invite him and his wife, and his brother and his wife, to the White House for lunch with the VP and her husband, and then quietly and privately pin it on him. Do you think there’s a space in the POTUS’s private quarters for a nice lunch for eight?

BigBlock440 > fintail
08/09/2020 at 21:20

Makes perfect sense, the guy’s an authoritarian because he doesn’t want to force the population to do something.

Just Jeepin' > ttyymmnn
08/09/2020 at 21:28

They were also warned over the intercom that criticizing the school on social media could result in discipline. America.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/09/2020 at 21:28

Doesn’t really tell you anything. When and why did they test them, are they related (1 or 2 seeders), were they symptomatic, is it in any way related to the school, do they expect others were exposed, etc.? As it stands, it’s just a scaremonger article trying to lump two separate events together without presenting any sort of evidence. It’s Georgia, they’re supposed to be a hot spot, you could randomly test 9 people walking down the street and come up with positives.

Just Jeepin' > BigBlock440
08/09/2020 at 21:31

He’s an authoritarian because he has said out loud on multiple occasions that whatever he does is valid because he’s the president. Because he believes that criticism of him, that whistle-blowing, is treason. Because he believes protestors are un-A merican. Because he frequently praises dictators and thugs.

And that’s just the first few thoughts. I could go on for a while. A very long while.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/09/2020 at 22:55

If Donald Trump were not a narcissistic imbecile, he would have had the entire country begin wearing masks long about April and we’d all be cautiously re-entering the economy and the schools and he’d be sailing toward his second term. But no. No national strategy. No reliable testing program. A nd leave everyone to fend for themselves and form tribes and argue over all the reasons why sending a bunch of children back to crowded schools is or is not a good idea. And in spite of all this, people who are otherwise reasonable people are contorting themselves trying to polish his turds. In the history of humankind, there has probably never been a more self-defeating, self-destructive person than the current POTUS. The political opportunity of a hundred years or more squandered and an entire class of boot lickers, fluffers and turd polishers identified, and our allies don’t trust us any more and why should they ever again?

So if Georgia is supposed to be a hot spot, why crowd the kids back into the schools before we fully know what to do about the virus? That’s my question. Were these nine people tested a second time, or a third, as was Governor DeWine, the Republican governor of Ohio ? He quarantined himself until he could get retested. Twice. Can regular Georgians even get a second or a third test? Or a first test? Do I want to send my own child into a crowded school under these conditions? Not really.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 00:55

I’m tellin ya, when this mess finally ends, it is going to be like ex-occupied (or collaborationist) Europe in 1946. Everyone is going to claim they knew nothing, and the guilty ones especially are going to deny everything, with many escaping justice . All of these yes men and bootlickers should spend significant time behind bars and be stripped of their undeserved personal wealth, but for the short term anyway, I am not holding my breath. Just as history treated the Confederacy with kid gloves, it will probably do the same for this batch of cowardly deconstructivists.

I’d love to see people denigrated by this regime offered high profile positions, just to rub it in to the cult, including some of the drones who post here. When I am told these pieces of shit aren’t authoritarian because they don’t want to force someone do something, it boggles the mind.

The image of Americans abroad has been iffy for most of the past 20 years or so, this certainly won’t help things. I am glad I took a European trip a couple years ago, who knows when I’ll be able to again.

fintail > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 00:56

Makes perfect sense, taking a contrarian stance on a logical way to mitigate the spread of a pandemic in the name of freedumb means a law and order coward who has openly admired the piles of shit I named a ctually doesn’t have totalitarian tendencies.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 01:18

Do I remember a chief complaint about President Obama being that he issued too many executive orders when he couldn’t get Congress to give him the results that he wanted? Or that he dared to consider making a _recess appointment_? No reasonable person can issue a straight-faced defense of P resident Trump at this point and expect to be taken seriously. He talks, people shrug. He is not to be taken seriously except that the destructive things he does are very serious indeed.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Just Jeepin'
08/10/2020 at 01:19

Good start though. And well stated, with nobody else's slogans.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
08/10/2020 at 01:24

I think name calling and labeling the other Ops will only move us further from constructive dialogue, though I share your anger and disgust with the state of our government, I think. Personally, I think most people abroad will quickly discern which tribe we belong to and react to us accordingly.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > sony1492
08/10/2020 at 01:31

Hammerhead said it well when he likened Oppo to a bunch of automotively-interested people gaggling in some bloke’s garage while that bloke fixed their car and shooting the s**t. And making suggestions, occasionally even helpful suggestions, and maybe passing them a wrench. You can bet that whether or not folks were sending their kids back to school would come up. And the president's incompetence. And what's for dinner.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 01:34

I suppose simply getting a nonsensical or whataboutist response is enough, speaks volumes.

Just imagine how better off everyone would be had there been a credible and organized response to this by February.

Maybe I’ll have to wear a blue hat with a “Not a MAGAt” logo.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
08/10/2020 at 01:45

Had there been such a response , I think 45's second term would be a foregone conclusion right now.

Uncle Joe’s VP picking exercise is being entertaining. I’m for Tammy Du ckworth because I think the identity politicking around her disability would be less vile and destructive than it will be around the color of the other VP candidates’ skin. And Tammy and Joe can joke about how much better off the country will be with an old guy and a cripple in the White House.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 02:31

Of course, if you act like a responsible adult, then you can’t own the libs. It’s almost like a contest finding the greatest amount of people who will cut off their nose to spite their face.

I haven’t been following the VP stuff extremely closely. Not too worried about it, the opposition will use the same tactics on any of them. The country would be better off too - maybe not well off per se, but better than what we’ve got now.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
08/10/2020 at 08:40

Owning the libs: genuine hatred. I don’t get it. As loathsome as I find Donald Trump, I do not genuinely hate him. If I did, I’d have let him win.

functionoverfashion > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 10:38

Great year for me to start teaching! I’m already planning which room in my house is getting commandeered for my remote classroom. Woo hoo?

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 10:44

Yes, that was a complaint. How is not issuing a mandate considered the same?

BigBlock440 > fintail
08/10/2020 at 10:46

Can you honestly say that had Trump ordered everything shut down in January and everybody had to wear masks that you would have thought “oh, no authoritarianism there, just doing what’s best for our own good”?

BigBlock440 > Just Jeepin'
08/10/2020 at 10:46

Just Jeepin' > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 10:54

I wrote about that, more or less . https://oppositelock.kinja.com/sacrifice-1843054939

I have for months thought that if Trump had stepped up and led with vision, he would have guaranteed reelection in a landslide. Like Nixon going to China, only Trump could have persuaded the right (I think we need a new word for the divisions we face, but whatever) to wear masks and sacrifice the economy while relying on the federal government to keep people afloat.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 11:24

It isn’t, in my mind. Not sure what you are asking here.

My position is that President Trump blew off his own foot and left his supporters all holding the bag not only with regard to his COVID response, but over his entire presidency.

If Trump had asked everyone to mask early, then we’d all be on the same page to some extent and the extensive and painful shutdown of the economy would have been less severe. But he thinks that wearing a mask looks wimpy, so based his (lack of) response accordingly. Biblical lack of judgment on his part and he showed the most clearly who he is.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 11:30

In fact, here is the Wall Street Journal’s editorial board writing about Trump’s mostly meaningless EOs only today. My point is that Trump is a complete hypocrite and his supporters are supporting a hypocrite. Does that make his supporters hypocrites as well?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WSJ Editorial Board, 8/10/20

The good news is that President Trump on Saturday escaped the trillion-dollar terms of surrender demanded by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. The bad news is that he followed the Barack Obama method with executive orders, one of which stretches the law in a way that a future progressive President will surely cite as a precedent.

Mr. Trump took his actions after talks with Mrs. Pelosi and her wing man, Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer, broke down on Friday. The President was right to walk away rather than succumb to their multi-trillion-dollar blackmail.

They are demanding $800 billion in aid to the states, an extension of $600 a week in jobless insurance into 2021 despite its disincentive to work, and they refuse to budge on Covid-19 liability protection for businesses and nonprofits. They want election mandates on states that have nothing to do with the pandemic.

This is less a negotiation than a stick-up. The Democratic political calculation has been that Mr. Trump would listen to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and roll over again. This would let them impose much of their long-term agenda, divide Republicans in Congress, and set the table to make their welfare-state expansions permanent next year when they expect to run Congress and the White House.

Mr. Trump’s escape frees him to lay out his own campaign policy agenda for Covid-19 relief and reviving the economy. Credibility on the economy is his best issue advantage over Joe Biden if Mr. Trump makes the case.

***

The President’s resort to executive orders is a separate issue, and it’s worth considering all four in turn. The President’s deferral of payroll taxes for Americans earning less than $104,000 a year through Dec. 31 poses no legal issues. Congress has already deferred the employer portion, and under the law Mr. Trump can defer the 6.2% employee share.

The rub is that cancelling the tax requires an act of Congress, so the deferred tax will have to be repaid. This makes the tax cut a limited economic stimulus because employers and employees aren’t likely to change their behavior if they know the tax must be repaid in 2021. At most it means more money in workers’ pockets for four months. But Mr. Trump said he’ll offer legislation to cancel the repayment if he wins re-election, which now becomes part of the campaign debate. Will Mr. Biden promise to raise this tax on middle-class workers next year?

The Democratic complaint that this jeopardizes Social Security and Medicare is dishonest. Democrats supported the payroll tax holiday when Mr. Obama did it and Mrs. Pelosi praised it at the time. Mr. Biden wants to expand Medicare to anyone at age 60 instead of 65, which would bankrupt the program without benefit cuts or huge tax increases.

The executive orders extending relief on rental and homeowner evictions and interest on student loans are modest and also within the law. The eviction order is essentially a command for agencies to “consider” what can be done. The loan-relief order is within Congress’s grant of authority. It is only for three additional months through the end of the year for debt held by the Department of Education.

Mr. Trump’s worst order would redeploy up to $44 billion from the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s (FEMA) Disaster Relief Fund to finance extra jobless benefits by $300 a week (plus $100 a week if states choose to match it with previous relief money).

Covid-19 is a national emergency, and unemployment is the result of the virus and government shutdowns. But Congress passed jobless aid as part of the Cares Act that was separate from the Disaster Relief Fund. Mr. Trump is commandeering the power of the purse that the Constitution reserves for Congress.

Yes, Mr. Obama did it first. He paid health insurers cost-sharing subsidies under ObamaCare without an appropriation from Congress. More famously, as part of his “pen” and “phone” strategy, he used executive diktats to provide work permits for millions of undocumented aliens. Democrats and the media cheered these abuses, and Mrs. Pelosi’s charge now that Mr. Trump’s orders are “absurdly unconstitutional” is partisan hypocrisy.

Mr. Trump’s FEMA order may survive because no states are commandeered nor individuals harmed, and it lasts only through Dec. 6 or until the money runs out. The House would have standing to sue, but Mrs. Pelosi might not like the political look of suing to deny Americans extended jobless benefits.

These columns opposed Mr. Obama’s orders, and one constitutional abuse doesn’t justify another. Mr. Trump’s FEMA order is a bad legal precedent that a President Kamala Harris could cite if a GOP Congress blocked her agenda on, say, climate change.

All of this shows how our polarized politics is stressing the constitutional system. Democrats and the press blame Mr. Trump, but they are as culpable for enabling Mr. Obama’s executive end-runs around Congress. Congress and the President should work it out the constitutional way, but if they can’t, the voters will have to settle the debate.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 11:34

Again, what’s the end game? Just keep kids locked up in the basement without social interaction indefinitely? Can you honestly say that had Trump ordered everything shut down in January and everybody had to wear masks that everyone would have thought “oh, no authoritarianism there, just doing what’s best for our own good”? No, nobody would have accepted that, but that’s the price to pay living in a free society. The time to do something was January/early February, nobody cared then, it’s too late now. How long do we wait for the holdouts to accept that it’s not going away? Domestic travel should have been shut down too so NY couldn’t seed the east coast , but there’s that whole freedom thing that people pitched a fit about. It’s not about Trump, everything doesn’t have to be about fucking Trump. Trump is but the head of one branch of the federal government, there’s supposed to be two other equal branches. That’s also assuming the federal government has any authority over any of this. Some people are willing to cede that much power to the feds, many others are not. I n the instance we happen to get an authoritarian figure in power, it’d be better to have limits on what they could do rather than handing the feds yet more unrestricted control.

As for schools, why is it not a good idea to send the population least affected by the virus and most affected by social isolation back to some semblance of a normal society? Do we want to continue having a society when people grow tired of covid (it’s not go ing away)? What scars do we want to inflict on the next generation, because there will be scars regardless if you ignore them and pretend they’re not there. How many extra suicides are we ok with to prevent them from catching something they’ll probably catch anyway?

fintail > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 11:35

Yes. Any more questions, you brave patriotic warrior for freedom and justice?

Why do you play this game? What’s your motivation? What’s your mentality? The US has handled the pandemic in an idiotic and disorganized way perfect for this regime and the questionable beings who continue to play devil’s advocate for it

Stop with your shallow transparent distractions, weak ploy. The most corrupt president ever has openly drooled over trash like Duterte, Jinping, Putin, and similar, while his cult chants about “law and order” (while mostly only really concerned about immigration and abortion law, sometimes marriage depending on their deplorability, and many no doubt yearn for Jim Crow laws). That says it all, no matter how much you play a game of what if.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 11:38

Pity, perhaps?

Look at the kids he created and the movement he's dredged out of the swamp. Hard to have much sympathy even if his father was garbage and messed him up.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 11:42

Here’s the thing, Trump’s always been a New York democrat, it sucks but that’s the options we had. At least there’s opposition to it now, there damn sure wouldn’t have been a peep in the media if it were Hilary or Biden.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 11:47

In summary:

Fintail: “Trump’s a dictator not forcing people to wear masks”

Me: makes perfect sense, dictators never force the population to do things

you: One of the complaints about Obama was EO’s, implying Trump is comparable in this instance

me: How is not issuing an EO the same as issuing an EO?

I’m not sure what the purpose of your comment there was if not to compare the two.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 12:07

It’s not about Trump, everything doesn’t have to be about fucking Trump.

Dude: It’s all about f***ing Trump. Everything is about f*** ing Trump. Because that’s how f***ing Trump wants it. Even the banking titans on Wall Street are sick of f***ing Trump.

The time to do something was January/early February, nobody cared then...

Least of all, F***ing Trump.

Trump is but the head of one branch of the federal government, there’s supposed to be two other equal branches.

Yes, two other equal branches who have the power to check the executive, which F***ing Trump has thwarted at every turn because it’s unfair .

In the instance we happen to get an authoritarian figure in power, it’d be better to have limits on what they could do rather than handing the feds yet more unrestricted control.

And F***ing Trump has zero respect for any of that and strains to break every limit.

It is time for people who elected that man to realize that doing so was a mistake and ready to move on.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 12:14

As for schools: my own children have all graduated high school, thankfully. I do not one bit like the idea of “locking children in basements forever.” That is your hyperbole, not mine. I am a public school educator and I greatly miss greeting my children in the classroom each day because as an educator, I’ve been forced to become in loco parentis , which I am perfectly okay with, and which is very hard to support via Zoom.

But you don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist or a Trump fluffer or a gauged hippy from San Francisco to recognize that currently, there is no dependable nor readily available nor timely test to discover if you have the virus, we don’t know exactly how it’s spread nor by whom, and we still haven’t figured out how to adequately protect against it. Personally, and I said this to you in another reply, I would not feel comfortable sending my children to school under these circumstances, and clearly I am not alone in this.

But there is another factor: while it looks like children are less likely to be severely affected by the virus, there is nothing to say that they are any less likely to spread the virus. Kid goes to school, picks up the virus, is asymptomatic, brings virus home to Grandma. Or to Mother, who has a compromised respiratory system. Just one scenario. I do not see how, faced with such scenarios, one can reasonably argue that sending kids back to school is indicated. Not yet.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 12:18

My friend: I don’t blame anybody for voting Trump. Never have. It’s going to suck either way, so why not roll the dice? My extended family is very progressive. I told them in 2016 that trotting out Hillary Clinton as the Democratic candidate was a bigly mistake. And I was proven correct. But for anyone to defend President Trump now , after the past three-and-a-half years, that I have an issue with. We need a regime change in a very bad way in this country.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 12:31

I find my correspondence with Fintail to be very satisfying , though I think he’s prone to coming in too hot, and I regularly call him on that . He’s among the more militant lefties and I’m a much more centrist lefty, and that makes for very interesting and satisfying correspondence. I’m also glad that you’ve weighed in and are sticking around. I am not about ad hominem , or “against the man,” and I hope that’s how I come across. (The man being another correspondent, and not the man Trump or any other politician or public figure.)

My complaint about President Trump, apart from what a racist, sexist, bully, and uniquely awful man I find him as a human being, is about his lack of leadership . He doesn’t lead. He bosses, he bullies, he stirs s**t. He pits the people underneath him against each other. And he doesn’t even pretend to give the slightest care about anyone else. He doesn’t do things like moving the Israeli Embassy to Jerusalem because he has balls, he does it precisely because he does not have balls. He’s incredibly insecure.

Leadership requires doing things because they are right for the group being led. People follow leaders because they want to. People follow commanders or tyrants or bullies because they are compelled to. Nobody follows President Trump at all, they only clamor either to lick his boots or to form tribes based upon specific insecurities and feel sheltered under a mean so-called leader. If Trump had donned a mask at the early stages, others would have as well.

The EO thing? It’s merely one more example of GOP hypocrisy.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440
08/10/2020 at 12:37

I don’t think Hillary or Biden would have ignored the virus and hoped for the best. I think they’d have dusted off the binder that the previous administration left behind on how to handle an epidemic and gotten busy.

Again: I don’t blame anyone for having voted for Trump. It’s continuing to defend him now that makes me LOL. There’s zero basis for it, in my opinion. And here’s a thing: how many people right now are outwardly ardent in their support for Trump and will secretly cast ballots for Joe Biden? There may have been many who did exactly the opposite in 2016, voting Trump in secret whilst they had a Hillary sticker on their car’s bumper .

I think that if Debbie Wasserman Schulz and Hillary Clinton had not undermined Joe Biden leading up to 2016, and Biden had been the Dems’ candidate, it would be Joe Biden defending his second term right now against Ted Cruz or some other Republican.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 18:34

Likewise in TX. Our state was one of the first to reopen, and too quickly. Only after the barn was fully on fire did the governor call the fire department and mandate masks. Even though some aren’t complying, the numbers have been decreasing steadily in the state. I o ften wonder where we would be if we had reopened and mandated masks. Coming off the lockdown, people may have been more amenable to wearing them (or not). And now UT researchers are predicting another spike at the end of August, right about the time we are supposed to be start in-person instruction for those who want it. My kids just want to go to after school band. I hope we can manage it.

ttyymmnn > fintail
08/10/2020 at 18:36

If Trump is defeated, and if he agrees to leave the White House, his last act will be to pardon every damned one of them.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/10/2020 at 18:42

They want election mandates on states that have nothing to do with the pandemic

This is rich. Did you see how much military pork was in that bill? Pretty sure aircraft carriers have nothing to do with COVID.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
08/10/2020 at 19:09

The mask question boils down almost entirely to Donald Trump's vanity.

fintail > ttyymmnn
08/10/2020 at 20:04

Then it’ll be time to find additional charges at the state level and pursue them hard.

Like we all can hope NY does when this mess has finally ran its course.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
08/10/2020 at 22:51

With the NRA deal, I'd say they're getting an early start.

BigBlock440 > fintail
08/11/2020 at 11:43

You’re lying and you know it. Nobody gave a shit about the virus until the end of March, by then it was too late. What is the end goal here? Nobody has articulated one. Complete elimination’s not possible, it’s here, it’s endemic, get used to it. Pretending it’s not isn’t going to change that.

Other countries did better? Like Australia? They’re locked down and spiking again. Spain? They’re spiking again. Israel? same. Belgium? As bad as they did round 1, they’re starting another wave.

How exactly do you see this playing out? What do you hope to achieve here?

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/11/2020 at 11:45

there is nothing to say that they are any less likely to spread the virus. Kid goes to school, picks up the virus, is asymptomatic, brings virus home to Grandma. Or to Mother, who has a compromised respiratory system. Just one scenario. I do not see how, faced with such scenarios, one can reasonably argue that sending kids back to school is indicated. Not yet.

How is that different than literally any other year?

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/11/2020 at 11:52

The time to do something was January/early February, nobody cared then...

Least of all, F***ing Trump.

Yeah, that whole impeachment thing. And the closing down travel to China, then to Europe thing. But we could just ignore that.

Dude: It’s all about f***ing Trump. Everything is about f***ing Trump.

I think this is one of the most severe cases of TDS I’ve ever actually witnessed. And firsthand proof that the lock downs aren’t healthy. Go outside, get some fresh air, there’s more to life than Trump.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
08/11/2020 at 11:53

So what’s th e end game? Just wait around until everyone gets it anyway, just 3 years longer than it would otherwise take?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > BigBlock440
08/11/2020 at 11:58

This one is shown to be more infection and we don’t really have a treatment for it other than bed rest and intubation . We have a flu vaccine and a well established way of treating the flu. The same can’t be said for this virus.

fintail > BigBlock440
08/11/2020 at 13:13

Answer what is asked of you before you pose more questions, have some form for once in your godforsaken life.

Where did I say anything about elimination? Quotes, or STFU.

The “ goal” is of the hill you are choosing to die on, and why you chose to reply to me with your whataboutism and cowardly tacit defense of this regime. What set you off? What’s the strategy? What’s the logic?

What are the per capita casualty rates in your cherry picked locations compared to the land of medical bankruptcy and failed trickle down bullshit, Murka . How about Germany? Or Canada? What kind of wave do you expect in the land of the free in another 3 months? Going to be a lot of estate sales next spring, I’d wager.

Here’s your man in action, be proud, you brave warrior for freedom and justice. Mindblowing that anyone who supports this shit would have the gall to call someone else a liar, but the world knows by now that modern American conservatism is a character flaw:

Kinja'd!!!

Mindblowing that someone of your met tle would call someone else a liar, nice distraction if you were 7 years old.

BigBlock440 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
08/12/2020 at 14:40

A vaccine doesn’t treat the flu, and there aren’t any real treatments.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/treatment/index.html

When used for treatment, antiviral drugs can lessen symptoms and shorten the time you are sick by 1 or 2 days.

We also don’t have treatments for many of the other of the various common illnesses other than “fluids and rest”.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > BigBlock440
08/12/2020 at 15:02

Right, but we have a way of preventing the flu that generally works, vaccines, that we don’t have for this virus. That is what makes this different than literally any other year. That, and the fact that it’s seasonal and shows no signs of slowing down when it’s warmer, unlike the flu. You can’t make that argument.

BigBlock440 > fintail
08/12/2020 at 17:15

If you don’t want the virus eliminated, what the fuck is keeping things locked down going to accomplish? Everybody gets it next year instead?

If you want to go with per capita casualty rates, there are 9 other countries higher than us, most of them in Europe (Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden).

Pretty disingenuous to keep posting your picture without the context of the rest of the public comments, like the WHO saying there was no human-human transmission, or Pelosi’s Chinatown comments on February 24th:

You see in Italy where the shows – the fashion shows and all of that were done without an audience because people – they just didn’t – because people were not coming. So, again, this fear is – I think – unwarranted in light of the precautions that are being taken here in the United States.”

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

So, that’s why we want people to come to Chinatown. Don’t be afraid. Enjoy it all. It’s beautiful and there are some good bargains here now, so it’s a good time to come.

Or NY:

March 5: Cuomo announces statewide cases doubled overnight from 11 to 22.

March 6: Cases double overnight again, to 45.

March 8: “There is more fear, more anxiety, than the facts would justify,” Cuomo said at a briefing. “This is not the Ebola virus, this is not the SARS virus, this is a virus that we have a lot of information on.” New York cases: 105.

You know damn well anything he did would have been met with resistance had it been early enough to help, and anything he did do was met with resistance. An authoritarian could have locked down areas that had an outbreak like China’s doing. The feds don’t have that authority. You also apparently think that simultaneously the feds are corrupt, but we should still hand them even more power to impose upon peoples daily lives. That’s a mentality I can’t get behind, and I’ll take the hill of freedom and personal responsibility every time.