A380 demise - that was quick.

"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
06/27/2020 at 01:14 • Filed to: Air France, A380, Aviation, Planelopnik, Coronavirus, Covid-19, Covid lyfe

I had read reports that airlines were planning to retire their A380s after barely a decade in service.

I did not realise that this would happen so quickly. Air France has immediately terminated all A380 services as of today.

While other airlines have better cabin layouts for their flying elephants, the future of the A380 is not looking good and I still have yet to fly on one.

DISCUSSION (33)

Nick Has an Exocet > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 01:27

I’ve flown it a couple of times. Frankly, it’s kind of unremarkable. All of my colleagues preferred it to the 747 but I didn’t. The 747 flies like a panther platform car and the A380 flies like a minivan. It doesn’t have the same feeling of numbness via heft that the old Queen of the Skies has. By all accounts, the 787 is a more technologically interesting plane than the A380. I also got the sense that each time I flew an A380, the airline was struggling to fill it.

I think the 2 times I flew on an A380 were British Airways (Bay Area - maybe San Jose? to London) and Emirates (Dubai to Singapore). I don’t remember much about the Emirates flight other than it was the 2nd leg of a Glasgow to Singapore slog. The British flight felt much more cramped than their 747 layout.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Nick Has an Exocet
06/27/2020 at 01:30

I thought they were able to have pressure closer to sea level and then you wouldn’t feel so crappy? I have only seen them at the airport, the first one I saw in person was in Sydney, it looked pretty big. they don’t fly from SFO to Japan, I was told I had to go down to San Jose to get on one. I never did it, I would like to fly on one though.

jminer > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 01:34

When retiring it in 2020 their video notes one of them in the 2024 Olympic colors - the pandemic has thrown so much off track it’s insane.

WilliamsSW > Nick Has an Exocet
06/27/2020 at 01:42

I haven’t flown in a 380, living in Chicago, but most aircraft get way better or worse depending on where you sit.

The best seat in the sky to me is the upper deck of a 747, window seat. You get a whole private storage bin, and it's like flying on a 30 seat private jet.

WilliamsSW > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 01:44

Yet another covid casualty. It had a pre existing condition, so it was more susceptible.

WilliamsSW > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
06/27/2020 at 01:46

The 787 has cabin pressure closer to sea level than most airliners, not sure about the 380. The 787 is fantastic.

ttyymmnn > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 01:48

The retirement of the four-engine airliners—747, A340, A380–has been in the cards for a while. Coronavirus just accelerated it. The age of the twin-engine airliner is upon us. I understand the economics, but the skies are going to get a lot less interesting.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 02:06

Sigh, I still haven’t been on any of the current-gen airliners (787, A350)

Nick Has an Exocet > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 02:14

The 787 is neat (it does the pressure trick), but the plane has a lot of weird flex to it. It’s unnerving in turbulence because you can see the flexing all the way through the cabin and storage compartments.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 02:14

I guess I was reading about the Dreamliner actually, I found an article.

In the bleachers > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 04:33

I flew both in one trip from Sydney to San Fran (Qantas A380) and the Dallas-Fort Worth (Qantas 747 - in the hump). The 747 j ust felt better. A bit hard to explain but just better. Flew Emirates to London with work so business class. (Yep, it is a whole different world). The A380 has a bar at the back of the plane which seats around 10 people.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
06/27/2020 at 06:38

Took a BA 787 for europpomert. Air pressure and humidity was noticeably better, but the ba economy seats were the most uncomfortable I have ever sat in. The seats felt like they had at most an inch of foam cushion.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 06:41

One little glimmer of hope is with all the unused airframes airbus is evaluating cargo/combo versions for Lufthansa.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 06:57

The one time I flew an A380 (Heathrow to Boston) I got stuck im the middle seat of the middle aisle next to some lady who was reading erotica and coughing wetly the whole time.

The whole experience was so unremarkable that I never even left my seat to go explore the upper deck.

WilliamsSW > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 08:05

I haven't been on the A350 - my international travel stopped right when it came out. It sounds nice though.

WilliamsSW > Nick Has an Exocet
06/27/2020 at 08:10

I’ve only been on it a handful of times, and haven’t experienced that. My few flights were either up front or domestic.

But you can get a real sense of the flex in any of the longer fuselages. Certainly in the 747, 777, and A321. I avoid the far back of any aircraft for that reason.

WilliamsSW > In the bleachers
06/27/2020 at 08:14

The hump of a 747 is a different world from the main level, too.

Gone > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 08:14

I quite liked the one time I flew in the A380 (Qantas SYD->SFO). Quiet plane, comfy seats, very cool CF interior bits. Take off was slow like a diesel and wondered if we were going to end up in Botany Bay though... It was better than the last 787 (and only the second time) I flew (Delta IAH->SYD ) which was oddly loud and uncomfortable. It was weird since the first time I flew a 787 (United DEN->IAH) it was a great flight - quiet and comfy. We were told it was a pretty new plane and this was also 2 Q14 so early-ish in the production run, though that shouldn’t make a difference really. I worked hard to get my company to get me on that flight lol! The 757, 767, and 777 are kind of similar, kinda loud, kinda cramped, okay. Still need to grab a 747 flight just to do it before they retire them....

Kinja'd!!!

f86sabre > ttyymmnn
06/27/2020 at 08:29

The pity for the 380 is that the floors are not robust enough to make a good cargo conversion. They are headed to the chipper I’m afraid.

Maxima Speed > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 09:26

I want to ride first class on an Emirates A380

Spanfeller is a twat > Nick Has an Exocet
06/27/2020 at 10:14

I flew on it once from Paris to Johannesburg... I think it's a magnificent plane, and much more comfortable than the 747 I flew in from London to Mexico City. Much quieter, and roomier...

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 10:43

Cotd

RacinBob > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 11:10

The problem with higher pressure is that it is also higher humidity which is an aluminum fuselage is a problem. The reason is that at altitude the higher humidity causes frost to form against the skin which melts and refreezes resulting in problems including corrosion. I believe the 380 is glass fiber reinforced aluminum and assume it would have problems.

The 787 has a carbon fiber based fuselage. Not a problem with carbon fiber.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 11:17

Yeah it has been a long time coming. I chose the 787 Dreamliner for my flight to Europe and the A380 for my flight back to the US (just slightly edged out over the 747 cause I want to sit in the upper deck for that). The 787 was a glorious ride and so freaking comfortable . The A380 though was ok and I was mostly not quite comfortable in my seat the entire flight.

WilliamsSW > RacinBob
06/27/2020 at 11:18

Interesting - I always thought it had more to do with fatigue cycles at a higher pressure differential shortening the life of the pressure vessel, but your point about corrosion makes sense. Fun fact - the aluminum alloys (2xxx/7xxx) used in aerospace are *less* corrosion resistant than the alloys used for most aluminum applications.

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > RacinBob
06/27/2020 at 11:29

I would expect that the air could be sufficiently dehumidified to avoid any corrosive effects.

RacinBob > WilliamsSW
06/27/2020 at 11:50

Well, I am no aviation design expert, just reporting what I read from a reputable source. It surprised me to learn this which is why I remember it so clearly. I had assumed the higher pressure was because carbon fiber allowed it too.

I work in HVAC and i t makes sense to me, frost in walls is a problem in homes in cold climates, wo why not planes too? Apparently, this is not a problem with carbon fiber and so you get both higher pressure and humidity to improve comfort.

Now granted, in the end this is about pressure. T he fuse lage is designed to a working pressure and you can’t just raise it without a lot of work and weight. I believe designers know that if you raise the vapor pressure too much in the plane, at some point frosting on -40 aluminum skins becomes a problem. And they decided it was a problem that wasn’t worth dealing with when the the pressures today are good enough.....

RacinBob > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 11:53

A- 380, NOW WITH COVID!

Kinja'd!!!

WilliamsSW > RacinBob
06/27/2020 at 12:01

Yes, I have to think that it’s a combination of all that you listed, and perhaps the frosting issue was the showstopper in the end.

IIRC, the 787 also has a higher relative humidity than other aircraft, in addition to reducing cabin pressure altitude from 8000' to 6000'.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
06/27/2020 at 12:23

Glad I was able to fly this at least once in my life. NYC To Dubai.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > f86sabre
06/27/2020 at 12:40

That really sucks. I would’ve hoped that some floor enhancements and a big- door conversion could make it a badass Antonov successor. I guess it isn’t financially feasible or the market isn’t there.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Maxima Speed
06/27/2020 at 15:14

Ahhh, don’t we all.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > f86sabre
06/27/2020 at 15:47

I thin only the top deck isn’t tall or strong enough.

Despite the positive appearance of the A380F on paper, the plane was never built. Airbus did patent a ‘combi’ version of the A380, which would carry up to 11 pallets (77,000 lb) of cargo and still be able to take 380 passengers on its deck, in addition to 33,000 lb of freight in the belly. This too was never built.” https://simpleflying.com/cargo-a380-how-to-load/

I read something a month ago when, lufthansa announced their cargo a380, that same deck combis were getting r ejected by the FAA, could leave a spot as the only acceptable combi in/to/from the US .