Synthetic Fuel

"Dakotahound" (dakotahound) 04/12/2020 at 09:37 • Filed to: Biofuel, Synthetic Fuel, Biodiesel

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Recently, an article on Jalopnik  outlined how McLaren is looking at synthetic fuels as an alternative to fully electric propulsion. The article was met with the typical array of negative comments, calling the idea “stupid” and “moronic.” I didn’t bother to post because there were already too many comments (mine would have been lost in the noise); and anytime something is posted touting alternatives to battery powered electric cars, the author is berated.

Image copied from “The Law of Algae.”

In the early 2000s, I frequently used biodiesel in my Golf TDI. It was sold at a small gas station just down the street for slightly more than regular diesel. Biodiesel is renewable and clean burning, with no noticeable difference in vehicle performance. Most biodiesel is produced from vegetable oil and some people used the waste oil from fast food restaurants as a source.

Biodiesel does have some issues. The most common complaint is that food crops are used to produce the fuel, and that food crops use petroleum products in the fertilizer. This is absolutely true. It does not, however, need to be the case in the future. There is currently a lot of research directed towards using algae (or other plant-based materials) as a source. The algae would not be harvested from the ocean, rather, it would be farmed.

I am not opposed to battery powered vehicles, but that is not the only path forward. There is promising research into the use of biodiesel and other viable synthetic fuels.

Original Jalopnik p ost:

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My bird IS the word > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 10:01

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Its only stupid if it doesn’t work. Idk why a company like McLaren would go out on a limb spending-wise if they didn’t think it would work.

People were also saying freevalve was a dumb idea because of maintenance but koenigsegg seems to be wrecking their shit.

Tekamul > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 10:03

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My wife’s cousin worked in an algae-sourced biodiesel lab in the early 2000s. They had 2 issues : cost ~$10 a gallon at small scale, but even at the largest possible scale, the model never gets below $5, and the alga biodiesel has a fixed shelf life. It goes bad in weeks, not months.

That was more than 15 years ago, and I don’t think they’ve made much progress. It’s a solution that doesn’t solve the current problem.

Dakotahound > My bird IS the word 04/12/2020 at 10:08

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Exactly; McLaren would not willingly invest money into something that had no promise. I have to believe that McLaren engineers are just as intelligent as engineers from other automobile companies .

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 10:08

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I’d love to see synthetic fuel as well as battery as the means forward, but until  someone makes a breakthrough in synthetic fuel research I don’t see it happening. Everything I’ve read on it basically boils down to the end product being too expensive compared to oil. So until gas prices go way up or someone makes a breakthrough I don’t think we’ll be seeing synthetic fuels

Dakotahound > Tekamul 04/12/2020 at 10:10

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I know that cost is an issue, but I had never heard about the shelf life problem. The gas station down the street from my home in the early 20 00s just treated it like any petroleum fuel. Of course, that was vegetable oil biodiesel, not algae biodiesel.

Dakotahound > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/12/2020 at 10:12

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Yes, price is always the issue with biofuel. Price was also an issue with batteries, until companies  made major investments.

facw > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 10:20

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It’s a great idea if it can be made to work. Retain the high energy density of fossil fuels while being carbon neutral (assuming your production is pulling carbon from the air).

Obviously there are still issues. Smog remains a problem, so even if things were perfected, you’d likely see dense cities continue to ban or limit ICE vehicles. And as you say, displacing food production isn’t great (something like 40% of US corn production is already going to ethanol, which is astounding).

Regardless, encouraging development of all non-fossil fuel tech is desirable, and one more reason we should be putting a price on carbon, either through a cap and trade system or a carbon tax.

facw > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/12/2020 at 10:22

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Just because it’s that way today doesn’t mean it will be that way tomorrow, especially if we put a price on carbon. Making fossil fuel users pay for the damage they are doing the environment will make carbon neutral fuels competitive (everything will be more expensive, yes, but with fossil fuels we are paying indirect costs not accounted for in the price of gas).

Dakotahound > facw 04/12/2020 at 10:22

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I have no figures to back up this statement, but it seems that research into biofuels ( and synthetic fuels, in general) has slowed in recent years . There is only so much money to go around and battery research is taking a lot of it.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > facw 04/12/2020 at 10:42

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I know, but until someone does make a breakthrough or governments start taxing the hell out of fossil fuels we won't see anything change. Personally I'd place my bet on a breakthrough happening before a government lead change

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 10:43

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I know and like I said, until there is a breakthrough I don't see it happening. 

shop-teacher > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 10:54

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It's interesting stuff for sure. No one thing will be the solution to all of our problems. It's good to diversify research.

Dakotahound > shop-teacher 04/12/2020 at 10:57

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And it is a proven technology. I used biodiesel for several years. At the time, it didn’t cost a whole lot more than regular diesel, but it was probably subsidized.

In fact, it was so easy to make that some people used their own “homebrew” to power their cars.

For Sweden > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 11:17

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Synthetic fuel is neat.  It’s also a fuel technology, not a car technology.

For Sweden > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 11:17

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Exactly; McLaren would not willingly invest money into something that had no promise.

Have you seen their recent F1 cars?

DipodomysDeserti > Dakotahound 04/12/2020 at 18:32

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I’m currently in a graduate level algal biosystems class and am learning all about how algae is being grown for various products, including biodiesel. If you could scale it up it’s much more sustainable than batteries, as the algae can perform multiple functions while making the lipids, such as clean wastewater. Biggest issue is scalability at this point. We’re currently covering how the lipids are removed from the cells and then processed to form the fuel. It’s very interesting stuff.

Dakotahound > DipodomysDeserti 04/13/2020 at 06:56

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That soun ds like an interesting class. Several universities have ( or had) research grants to study algae for biofuels. If I remember correctly, one was in New Hampshire.

DipodomysDeserti > Dakotahound 04/13/2020 at 10:05

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My university is growing it both in the lab and in large outdoor pools for research. I know my professor is studying one of the strains that Chevron claims they’re studying as a biofuel source.