An Actual Mechanical Problem

"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion) 04/06/2020 at 07:41 • Filed to: it still didn't technically break down on me it just wanted to stay in storage I guess

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I went to get my truck out of storage this weekend, and it didn’t go well.

update 4/27 - !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

I parked it in a garage with about 1/4 tank of fuel - if you ask 5 people how full a fuel tank should be for storage you’ll get 5 different answers. My system is to put it away with however much it has at the time. Empty has disadvantages, and super-full does too. Of course, I put fuel stabilizer in it before putting it away so it could run through the system.

I do very little else to store it. I turn the battery isolator switch to “off” and shut the door. It always starts in the spring, and this year was no exception. It took some pumping of the gas pedal and quite a few revolutions with the starter, but as ever, it fired up and ran.. fine. It’s a 59-year old carbureted engine with a manual choke, and it was 45 degrees inside the garage. It needs a little time to warm up, even in July. So while I was feathering the throttle to keep it alive, I rolled it out of the garage in 1st gear, then had trouble keeping it going.

It was like it was running out of fuel, or the choke was on full (it wasn’t). I could barely get it started again, and it stumbled, misfiring, not running on all cylinders - but no backfiring - and then it died. I could not get it going again.

I strongly doubt it’s ignition since it ran fine at first. Still, I took off the cap and cleaned the contacts. It has points ignition but the points open and close “normally” in that they look fine, and it ran perfectly at first - it also strikes me as supremely unlikely the points went out of adjustment by themselves. I did find a new rotor in the glove box that I popped in because, why not. But I don’t want to start changing out a bunch of parts, and the points in particular are hard to get right without being able to hear it running.

I changed the canister-type fuel filter and drained/cleaned out anything in the bottom of that canister. Couldn’t tell if there was water or anything. There’s another fuel filter, but I’m doubtful that’s an issue. Still, I’ll try to get a new one.

I left the truck Saturday and went back Sunday armed with a few more tools, and it basically did the same thing - it started up okay at first, then stumbled, died, and wouldn’t re-start. I checked spark plugs and they looked... a little wet I guess, but not soaked in fuel. Just, like they hadn’t been firing perfectly but not dripping in gas or anything. I cleaned them up and put them back in. Wires are in great shape, and again, I just don’t think it’s ignition.

This leads me to believe it’s either getting too much fuel or not enough. A stuck float in the carb? A clogged jet? I don’t want to take the carb apart at all without a set of gaskets, so that kind of sucks. My next thought was to run the engine on a separate fuel tank, like a little outboard tank connected right to the fuel filter - that’s where there’s a bit of rubber hose already. Then, I guess it’s off with the carb.

Or am I totally on the wrong track? I have limited time to mess with it, as it’s not at my house. So I need to plan ahead, get some parts, and go back over to it armed with whatever I need.

I welcome all input. I may not reply right away as I need to, you know, work - oh, and teach kindergarten and 1st grade too.

I love trying to figure out a mechanical puzzle, but there are times I just don’t really need another problem to solve, and now is one of them. I just wanted to pick up the truck and bring it home. Oh well, it’s not like it’s a necessity.

UserNotFound > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 08:13

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I’d bet dollars to dough nuts it’s gummed up carbs.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 08:27

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“ I welcome all input. I may not reply right away as I need to, you know, work - oh, and teach kindergarten and 1st grade too.”

Are you trying teach kindergarten and 1st grade remotely? As a sub teacher, I can’t see how kids that age would have the presence of mind and focus to stay on task for that without actually being in a classroom...

Sovande > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 08:27

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Sounds like a fuel problem. I would start by trying to run it off a separate can and see what happens. If the symptoms are all the same then you have at least eliminated everything from the fuel filter back.

What kind of carb is it? If probably get a gasket kit and plan to pull and rebuild the carb. Or start pulling jets and spraying them out.

Another thing it could be with an old vehicle is the fuel lines could be delaminating from ethanol. The delaminating rubber can actually create a flap in the hose which randomly cuts off supply or vent. Maybe it’s just the vent line to the tank? It gets enough fuel to start by pumping the pedal, then as it burns off the gas in the carb the pump can’t overcome the clogged vent and it runs out of fuel? This would be solved with an external gas can too.

Good luck! 

TheRealBicycleBuck > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 08:29

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I’d start with an abundant spray of carb cleaner. If that doesn’t help, running it off a secondary can of fuel would help isolate the problem. I would also throw on a new fuel filter just to make sure that isn’t the problem.

functionoverfashion > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 04/06/2020 at 08:30

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Nope, I have a 5 and 7 year old at home with me while trying to do my regular job.

For their part, the kids have been pretty good about doing school work. I don’t expect a lot, either, we do no more than 2 real hours in any given day of “sit down and do school work” and it’s not continuous, either of course. Right now they’re running around outside. 

functionoverfashion > Sovande 04/06/2020 at 08:35

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Thanks, yeah, all signs point to fuel at the moment. It’s a boring 2bbl ... something. Stock carb on a 292 y-block Ford V8. Maybe I should mention that in the post.

I am going to try to bring a separate tank with me, yeah, that’s a standard troubleshooting step for sure.

As far as ethanol, I think generally the truck should be immune to that because it’s had at least 3 years of ethanol fuels in it, and there is very little rubber hose in the system. But for sure I’ve seen what you’re talking about, but in a boat - the collapsing fuel lines, that is.

Thanks for the thoughts. I’ll update... eventually.

functionoverfashion > TheRealBicycleBuck 04/06/2020 at 08:37

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Yeah, actually I didn’t have any carb cleaner with me and I wonder if that would have helped. A good spray of that, maybe another quick cleaning of spark plugs in case they’re now a bit fouled... and the external fuel tank for sure.

Old-Busted-Hotness > Sovande 04/06/2020 at 08:39

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If it’s that old, tank venting is done with a vented fuel cap. The tank is in the cab, no vapor system of any kind.

Ethanol effing up the fuel lines is a possibility, though. Also possible that there’s rust in the steel fuel lines, as water accumulates in the lowest part of the system. So check the filter with a blow-thru test, leave the line open and crank the engine to see if fuel flows when you do.

Ethanol will also attack the rubber diaphragm in the fuel pump.

There’s a lot of things it could be, but they’re all pretty simple.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 08:51

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Thank you for trying to give them some semblance of normalcy and keeping up their education during all this craziness...us teachers appreciate it!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 08:52

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I think you’re on the right track, it’s probably something in the fuel delivery system and I’d be it’s the carb, maybe a stuck float or something.  

Sovande > Old-Busted-Hotness 04/06/2020 at 09:31

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Good point on the cap. You could always remove the cap and try to run the engine. If it dies, maybe the cap is the vent restriction.

I love trying to solve problems like this. I would imagine it’s something very simple (since nothing about this could be difficult).

adamftw > UserNotFound 04/06/2020 at 10:09

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This. Ethanol ruins that shit quick.

benjrblant > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 10:22

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entirely speculation here: I’d guess it’s possible for the carb to be running on un-stabilized fuel, especially if you’d only recently added the stabilizer before storing it. I’m with therealbicyclebuck, hit it with some carb cleaner.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > UserNotFound 04/06/2020 at 10:24

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I mean that is what carbs do.  Get gummed up.  It is like... their thing.

UserNotFound > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/06/2020 at 10:25

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I have cleaned the carbs on my Hawk GT more often than I have actually ridden my Hawk GT. I hate ethanol, I hate gum, and I hate carbs.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 10:37

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You can disconnect the fuel line after the fuel pump and make sure it’s squirting. The fuel pump in our ‘65 had a bad diaphragm.

functionoverfashion > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 04/06/2020 at 10:50

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Yeah, that’s another thing to look at. Could have dried out and failed, or mostly failed. It runs a little but can’t sustain... 

functionoverfashion > benjrblant 04/06/2020 at 11:00

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I’m now second guessing myself, as to when I put stabilizer in. I must have put it in before parking it, because the filler was on the side of the truck up against the wall - I had to get out the other side in the garage where it was stored. But how long did I run it? Did I forget entirely?

I did put in 3 fresh gallons yesterday. That’s... something anyway.

For sure next time I go over, I’ll bring some carb cleaner - keep it simple if possible - if I can grab an external tank before then, I’ll do that too. My parents have one I’m sure.

—

Good news is, my bike is working perfectly and the trails are drying out fast, early. 

ClassicDatsunDebate > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 12:47

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1. Tap the float bowl with a screwdriver handle to make sure the float isn’t stuck. C heck the choke to make sure its not stuck closed.

2. Rochester or Carter? Look down the throat and actuate the accelerator linkage. if you see the accelerator pump nozzles squirting (you may need to manually hold the choke and throttle plates open to see the squirt) you know the bowl has fuel. That means either the float is stuck down or sunk over the winter.

functionoverfashion > ClassicDatsunDebate 04/06/2020 at 13:04

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This is the carb, pics from when I first got the truck.

I’ll try tapping on the bowl with the handle of a screwdriver, too.

Now here’s a thing:

I can see fuel leaking out of this spot (circled in RED, kinja willing).

I do see fuel coming shooting in when I move the linkage (like pumping the pedal) from inside the engine bay. The choke isn’t stuck (I don’t believe) because it made a difference when I first got it running... but hey, can’t hurt to be extra sure. 

ClassicDatsunDebate > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 13:11

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Im not a Holley guy but I believe that the part you circled in Red is the bowl vent valve. If its leaking from there, that may indicate a sunk float or a stuck- down float. Either way, fuel leaking from the vent indicates a float/valve issue and that means it would be flooding the engine.

I think anyway.

functionoverfashion > ClassicDatsunDebate 04/06/2020 at 13:18

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Yeah, thanks for the thoughts. I realized as people are generally agreeing on my “it’s fuel” theory, that any fuel where it shouldn’t be (or the other way around) would be relevant info. Fuel should not be coming out of there, in any case, and I’ll see if I can pop that off without ruining the gasket... if I do ruin it, well, I have one on order, should be here Thursday.

Now I just want to call it quits on work for the day and go tinker with the truck lol. Pesky job. 

ClassicDatsunDebate > functionoverfashion 04/06/2020 at 13:23

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I know....Jobs...psshht.

Anyway, Holley has a sight level gauge that will help you I think.  Grab the manual on-line and read up about float level settings.  i have a feeling it may be a sunk float...you can probably order a kit the same day.

Thisismydisplayname > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 04/06/2020 at 13:57

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They don’t.... (father of a 1st grader and kindergartener). We’re lucky to get a few hours total of work out of them.  And that takes all day and a bit of yelling/drinking.  My Wife wasn’t much of a drinker before all this, now she’s polishing off a bottle of wine every couple days.  

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > UserNotFound 04/06/2020 at 14:45

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I want so badly to like carbs, but my three least favorite cars I’ve owned were carbureted. Coincidentally I’ve only owned three carbureted cars...  You just get the impression they’re never at their best except for the drive right after a successful afternoon turning and even then they’re not right through the spectrum of driving.  I’ve tried Webers, Solex, EMPI, and Edelbrock and hated them all unequally (the Weber was by far the best but still not my favorite)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Thisismydisplayname 04/06/2020 at 17:34

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Yeah, sounds about right....I feel bad for your wife, lol