Volvo V60 Cross Country - Wagon or CUV? This and other car musings

"Snuze: Needs another Swede" (markg) 11/03/2020 at 09:31 • Filed to: None

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I saw one of these this morning, and found myself absolutely smitten with it.

I love the look, the proportions, the wheels, the stance. Especially the stance. I even think it looks good in white with the contrasting grey fender flares. I kinda want to get one and raise it about another 1" and put slightly chunkier tires on it , and a rally light bar. And some rally mooses.

Just what one question - what is it? A lifted wagon or a lower CUV?

Also, the local Volvo dealership has some CPO ones (including the one pictured) well within my price range.

And on that note, the search for a suitable Cruze replacement continues. I’ve got a bunch of crap going on in the next few weeks - some house projects, a bachelor party and wedding, and work is going full bore at the moment. I had originally wanted to get a new car before the end of the year, but really I’m in no hurry. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m not sure where the economy is headed, especially after today, so it might be prudent to sit on this decision for a bit and see how things shake out. So I’ve got a lot of time to analyze and think about my needs and wants in a car so I can make a good decision. Or an awful but awesome one. Here are some cars I’m into and some thoughts:

Ford Mustang GT350 : This would be the absolute top of the budget . I’ve always thought of myself as more of a GM guy, but damn this is an awesome car, and Chevy didn’t make a 6th Gen Z/28, so here we are. Having driven lower spec trims of both Camaro and Mustang, I think the Mustang is the better day to day car (more usable trunk space, better visbility, etc.) Plus that 5.2L Voodoo engine. Hnnng! On the flip side it has a high TCO (shit gas mileage, high insurance, pricey tires, etc.) , and I spend a lot of time just sitting in traffic. But there are some awesome roads around me for the rare times traffic isn’t garbage.

Camaro SS 1LE : I’ve always wanted a Camaro, since I was a kid, and now’s my chance to make it happen. Up front price is $10k less than the GT350, and I’ve always wanted a Camaro so I wouldn’t feel like I was settling in the least . Suffers from the same flaws as the GT350 though (wasted potential, high TCO).

Cadillac ATS : I’d get the 2.0 turbo spec, with a stick. It’s built on the same Alpha platform as the Camaro, but it has 4 doors, so in some ways more useful . Still has an awful trunk and suspect interior quality from that era of Cadillac. Gets much better fuel economy than Camaro or Mustang , and it’s cheaper both up front and in TCO . It would be a nice all arounder, and with a few mods could be very fun.

Volvo V60 : This is a new contender, I don’t pay as much attention to newer Volvos, but I’ve seen a few recently and would really consider one, especially the Cross Country. It’s only available in auto, which would please the wife (everything else on my list is available with a stick). It’s also affordable, about the same price as the ATS. But we already have a nice CUV (the Terrain Denali), so this would feel a little redundant.

VW Alltrak : These seem to be popular around these parts so I’d at least consider one. I don’t know much about VWs, though. But it seems like it would check a lot of the same boxes as the V60, though probably a bit less expensive.

Chevy Colorado : I’m not much of a truck guy, I much prefer driving a car. B ut as a home owner this would be super useful. It would also allow me to get rid of my folding trailer which would free up some garage space. TCO isn’t bad (mainly hampered by shit fuel economy - about the same as the Camaro ) , maintenance is generally a breeze. I also wouldn’t be as tempted to mess with it with mods as I would the other cars. I could even afford to buy a basic one (work truck package, 4 cylinder, stick, all I really need ) outright, so no car payments. The main downsides are that it is a truck, and therefore not fun to drive. I also know for a fact I will have people hounding me to borrow it.

Another econobox : There’s a part of me that would also consider simply getting another econobox. I could easily afford a Gen II Cruze hatch, or something similar ( Corolla, Civic, etc.) to beat around everyday. I could buy something liek this outright and still have a bit of money left over. It would mean no car payment, and low TCO (fuel efficient - I like getting 35+ MPG).

There are a few others out there I’m considering, but probably less so, such as a Corvette or Boxster/Cayman.

I don’t want to flex financial, that’s not what I’m about, but does anyone else here experience this - you work hard and save, maybe make some personal sacrifices or really try to change your financial habits, to reach a goal, and then when you do you find yourself reluctant to spend the money? The first 2 cars are my halo cars, and it’s weird to me to be in a position where I can safely afford them (i.e. not have to eat ramen and not be financially ruined in the event of a catastrophe). But the part of my brain that allowed me to even get this point is screaming “Nooo! Don’t waste your money on that, fix your Cruze and drive it into the ground. Or at least buy something sensible!” Fortunately, a little whiskey usually shuts that part of the brain up.  

Also, given my living situation, I want to get back to 3 cars , so the future fleet will be the Terrain, my 240 project wagon, and whatever I buy as a daily . And part of me thinks if I get a Camaro or Mustang, or even ATS, I will want to mess with and that will detract from the wagon project.

I welcome your thoughts, opinions, ideas, good stories, bad jokes, or whatever else you got.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 09:38

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It’s a slightly lifted wagon with some cladding because most American car buyers are stupid which necessitates this to be marketed as a “Crossover”. End of the day it’s still a wagon.

adamftw > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 09:39

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If you can swing it, both financially and the space to keep them, more cars is always better than one that can “do it all. ”

skimaro > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 09:45

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The world needs more dd camaros, I recommend you join the club.

Just Jeepin' > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 09:46

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Obviously a manual Jeep  XJ. I don’t know why this is even a discussion.

facw > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 09:47

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It’s a wagon with boots on (i.e. the only type of wagon carmakers hope to sell to Americans).

Of course today’s Arstechnica review of the V60 CC , says that Volvo has only sold ~ 1000 regular V60s and only ~ 3000 V60 CCs, this year, which suggests that quite possibly neither of them is long for the American market.

I’ve been tempted by the previous- gen  V60 as well (I saw Carmax had a suspiciously cheap T6 this spring and was very close to getting it shipped up to look at), but the stock market’s decline in March both reduced my desire to splurge, and encouraged me to put much of my cash on hand in while the market was low, so new car is off until next year at least. I’m hoping prices on the early models of the current-gen will end up dropping enough to do that instead, as it’s better looking (not that the previous-gen is bad at all), and has some nice upgrades (pano-sunroof, Android Auto, etc.)

Milky > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 09:49

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Dont forget the se dan.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 09:49

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I say wagon.

This is a good list. I also greatly desire a GT350.

I feel like, once you’re on track with all of your longer-term savings goals and have a healthy emergency fund, and your debt is in check (pretty much none but mortgage, and you’re working on paying it off faster), and you could pay off a car (or anything that’s a depreciating asset) in 2-3 years (even if you end up taking 5 with a favorable interest rate), then there’s nothing holding you back from buying something you desire and that will give you joy.

I waited until I was 34 to spend real money on a car that was more of a want than a need, fwiw. Paid it off in 2 years.

It’s definitely worth always considering opportunity cost when you make bigger money decisions. What’s more important to you? Have a fun(ner) car to enjoy now, or perhaps retiring a year earlier later?

and 100 more > Milky 11/03/2020 at 09:55

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“Hmm, seems more like a coupe to me.”

-Mercedes Benz

and 100 more > Just Jeepin' 11/03/2020 at 09:55

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That wasn’t even the answer to YOUR dilemma.

Just Jeepin' > and 100 more 11/03/2020 at 09:59

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I know, I know. Snuze was due to check one out for me, though, to the point where he stressed out his wife worrying that it would be stuck at their place indefinitely.

Tripper > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:02

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Also saw one yesterday and thought the same, really fackin nice looking!

For Sweden > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:02

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Its an unholy attempt to survive, like amputating a limb.

Long_Voyager94 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:04

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It’s clearly a sliderless minivan.

Milky > and 100 more 11/03/2020 at 10:06

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Sovande > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:09

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I may be biased, but I think the Volvo is an excellent choice. Here is a FWD model out in the wilds of West Virginia and it did just fine.

and 100 more > Milky 11/03/2020 at 10:09

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Sovande > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:12

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If you want all wheel drive and a fast car, why not take a look at the V60 Polestar or R Design and kill a couple birds with one stone?

and 100 more > Just Jeepin' 11/03/2020 at 10:15

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Either way, I like what you ended up with. The XJ seems to be a little cursed these days, suffering from both an XJ Tax (similar to the Toy ot a Tax) and Civic Syndrome (diff iculty finding clean, unmolested ones). The WJ seems to be a great compromise, and honestly, a more comfortable choice. My dad’s XJ is great but rides super stiff; considering all his back problems I don’t know how that is his DD.

Just Jeepin' > and 100 more 11/03/2020 at 10:18

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Yeah, my back is in terrible shape. I don’t think the lumbar support in the WJ is sufficient but the overall experience is significantly more comfortable than my LJ.

and 100 more > Just Jeepin' 11/03/2020 at 10:21

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Maybe jack the seats out of something more comfortable? It may take some welding some custom seat brackets, but it might be worth it long-term.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Milky 11/03/2020 at 10:24

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Also not bad, though I think given the choice I’d still opt for the wagon.  

Just Jeepin' > and 100 more 11/03/2020 at 10:24

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Maybe. I just downloaded the manual so I’ll be figuring out what adjustments I have, and we’ll see how it goes. Two 20 minute test drives aren’t all that useful in the grand scheme of things.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Just Jeepin' 11/03/2020 at 10:28

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I’d love to have a J eep. A year or so ago my plan had been to fix up the 850, flip it, and find an early TJ to work on.

Also, please don’t feel like you stressed Mrs. Snuze out, she stresses herself out. Literally every conversation in my household goes something like this:

Me: “Hey, hun, come look at this thing I found on the internet...”

Mrs. Snuze’s b loodpressure: ................ 264 /177

Snuze: Needs another Swede > facw 11/03/2020 at 10:30

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I like it. I’m not a full on CUV person, we already have one anyways, but I think these look sharp. I love cars with “rally stance” and this more or less has it, which is what caught my eye.

But only selling 4000 units, oof. T hat’s rough for what should arguably their middle line, bread and butter car.

I still need to get out and test drive one, if I’m going to really consider it. It was mostly just smitten by the looks. 

facw > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:32

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Though I like the current-gen looks more, I do think both the regular and CC versions of the previous-gen are good looking cars (interesting, since I don’t like the previous-gen S60 at all, it just looks like a Nissan to me). At my previous apartment someone near m e had a s ilver previous-gen V60 CC, and I always thought it looked pretty sharp.

Milky > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:35

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weird > practical 

Sovande > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:35

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Also, if you want to drive one, you are welcome to come take mine for a spin.  It’s not a CC, but it would at least give you a feel.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/03/2020 at 10:39

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I’m 36, so I guess I’m on a pretty good timeline. W e just re-fi’d the house to lower the payment but are basically paying the same payment we made before to speed up the payoff. Mrs Snuze and I both   have good jobs, good retirement savings, and a nice emergency fund. Its just weird how it all comes together; I feel like I’ve stressed about money since I went out on my own at 19 , and suddenly in the last year or so it’s been like wow, okay, I don’t have to worry about that anymore. I mean I still do, but more abstractly now.

And the GT350 is amazing. I never even considered one until recently, but they are awesome cars. My dad has already said that if I get one I am not allowed to park it in his driveway when I come visit. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Sovande 11/03/2020 at 10:40

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Gorgeous! 

DasWauto > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:44

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“ does anyone else here experience this - you work hard and save, maybe make some personal sacrifices or really try to change your financial habits, to reach a goal, and then when you do you find yourself reluctant to spend the money?”

Yes, this is me big time. I’ve bought 2 cars new and am having a really hard time convincing myself to spend $20-30k to replace the WRX. D epreciation, which wasn’t as much of a factor with the Subaru, is a big part of that as more expensive cars depreciate much more quickly. I just don’t really want to eat $20k, or more, in depreciation over 5 years. I’m now looking at low mileage, (partially) pre-depreciated, examples of things I’m interested in and even then I’m struggling to justify it.

Being sensible sucks sometimes, and adulting is hard.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > adamftw 11/03/2020 at 10:44

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I agree, but space is my issue at the moment. I currently have 4 cars when I really only have room for 3, so 2 have to go if I’m going to get a new one. If space weren’t the problem I’d definitely get the Camaro/GT350 and then a beater truck to use for yard work, bad weather commuting, etc.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Sovande 11/03/2020 at 10:45

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Thanks, I appreciate the offer and may take you up on that!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > For Sweden 11/03/2020 at 10:47

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I would agree, but Volvo has a history of XC wagons. This one just looks, uh, a bit less wagon like? I dunno. Its weird, and I like weird.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > DasWauto 11/03/2020 at 10:56

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That’s a good point and I wonder if that’s part of it, as well. My wife will drive a car until the wheels fall off, so buying a brand new Terrain Denali (which was really more than we needed) didn’t bother me because I know we will have that thing forever. But spending that kind of money on myself is tough because what if I don’t like whatever I buy, or decide I can’t live with it? Maybe, subconsciously, its a fear of falling back into my old ways of flipping cars every 2-3 years.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 11/03/2020 at 10:57

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I think that’s probably the right take. I was just curious as to what Oppos thoughts were. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > skimaro 11/03/2020 at 10:58

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It’s very tempting. My dream car as a kid, and most my early adult life, was a 3rd Gen IROC-Z. I also love the pre-facelift 6th gen and the 1st gens. So naturally a Camaro is on my shortlist. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 10:59

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Sounds like you guys are doing awesome. I feel very much the same as you with how things have turned out for us. My family didn’t have much when I was a kid, so frugality runs deep in my psyche. It was a hard mental hill to climb to allow myself to spend 40 grand on a car.

A GT350 or M2C or 981 Cayman S might be in my future down the line, but I’ll keep letting depreciation do its work for a while. Always fun to dream, even if they never come true. Has been really gratifying to finally help get my oldest brother into a fun car. He’s 13 years older than me, and has been able to afford it for a long time, but just couldn’t bring himself to spend the money. He bought my old M3 from me for $15k, and is loving it. =)

I assume you all are already charitable, but I’d encourage you to make this a part of your planning as well. It’s been super gratifying to Mrs. addiction and me to have a “giving fund” where we set aside some money to go to good causes. Since we’ve already made the decision to give, when something comes up it’s not “can we afford to give? ”, it’s “is this a worthy cause?”.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/03/2020 at 11:23

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I’d say we are doing well for ourselves. It’s interesting how family plays a role in financial attitudes. My wife’s family is very well off, but it’s because they worked hard, are very frugal, and her father’s hobby is investing in the stock market, and he’s done very well there. My family is very different - when I was a kid my dad was doing extremely well, and while my folks didn’t blow their money, they spent rather freely . Then my dad had some serious medical issues, was out of work for a long time, etc. But my folks never really adjusted their spending habits, and have subsequently suffered for it. But I grew up with that spending attitude , and was subsequently living paycheck to paycheck, etc. Mrs Snuze really set me straight, she’s been a good example and a good partner. It’s funny though, I really had to push her to get the Denali when she needed a new car. S he didn’t want anything fancy, and I was like nah, get this, you deserve it. Now she’s kind of doing the same thing with me. Though I don’t think she’s quite onboard with the GT350.

I like the idea of a giving fund. We don’t have anything like that setup, but we do some charitable giving throughout the year. She’s really smitten with our dog, so she’s been doing a lot with the rescue organization we got him from. I’m a vet and I donate regularly to Fis her H ouse. We also donate to other local causes and such throughout the year. I will have to have a talk with her about setting something like that up.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 11:47

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Oh man, family has a huge influence! My dad was born in ‘37, so he definitely had the Depression-era mentality in his family (his dad died before he was born, so his older brothers had to grow up very fast).

I also bought my wife a “nice” car before I ever bought myself one.

You could just set it up as like a 1% auto-transfer into a separate savings account to start, and start letting it build up, see how you like it, and then increase it as you see fit in the future.

adamftw > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 11:50

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I’ve been doing a fair amount of home improvement stuff, and it is really rare when I need my pickup bed. A wagon or SUV truck is fine 90% of the time, and for large loads its so convenient to just pay a small delivery fee and have everything dropped off.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > adamftw 11/03/2020 at 12:14

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Agreed. The inclusion of the pickup is at least partially out of laziness . We have a CUV with a tow package and I have a little fold up 4x8 utility trailer. It’s just kind of a hassle to setup/tear down. It does take up some space in the garage, though, and it would be nice to get that back. And if my commute sucks and I’m in traffic most of the time, I’m not really going to get to enjoy a “fun” car too much, so why not go all in and get the truck? Especially when I can get a basic one really cheap, basically buy it outright, and not have a car payment. I still have the wagon project as the fun toy. It kills multiple birds with 1 stone.

Saracen > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 12:29

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Lifted wagons with body cladding are still wagons.  Slightly less attractive wagons.

MrSnrub > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 13:16

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Facebook’s creepy algorithm really thinks I want a Volvo. I just bought a new GTI a few months ago but I probably get 4 Volvo ads for every VW listing. Of course, I also click the ads often because I’m intrigued by the low-mileage previous-gen S60s my local dealer has listed for $20k or less. Not that I’m actually considering it obviously, but they’re pretty appealing for that price. I like the looks and they’re supposedly pretty solid in terms of reliability and chassis tuning, which is not what I’ve heard about the (very pretty) current gen.

So of your options, besides the Alltrack which is very good , the V60 would be one of my top choices because of that S60 goodness plus wagon. I was very impressed by the ATS I drove (6 years ago though), but honestly I don’t know how much I’d trust one out of warranty.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > MrSnrub 11/03/2020 at 13:58

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I’ve been looking at V60 s off and on all day now, and the new (2020+) V60 is GORGEOUS. I think the 2015-18 (shown above) looks really nice, but my my is the new one handsome. But, like you said, I’ve heard some iffy things about current Volvo quality. That and they are going for $40k+, thats basically used GT350 money. Also you can get up through 2016 with the old, reliable T5 turbo 5 cylinder. It’s still a Whiteblock, which is in my current 850 that I’ve done tons of work on, so I know these engines pretty well. I don’t know as much about the VEA engines in the 2017+ cars.

Regarding the ATS, I have no qualms about drivetrain reliability. The LTG turbo 4 is pretty stout stock, and with light mods. Though I’ve heard as you approach about 400HP, you start melting pistons, but I wouldn’t be doing that . I’d get mine with a stick, so no real worries there. I think the only thing that would really concern me is interior and electrics. But even then, I’ve owned a lot of GMs over the years and never had any major electrical issues in any of them. So my only main concern would be how well the interior would hold up.  

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Just Jeepin' 11/03/2020 at 14:05

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I sent Mrs. Snuze an e-mail this afternoon with a link to a V60 at a local dealership. I can almost hear the aneurysm from here.

Just Jeepin' > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 14:36

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You should have softened her up by first sending links to pristine ones on the west coast...after thinking through the hassles involved with that, a local one will seem like a blessing.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Just Jeepin' 11/03/2020 at 14:43

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Not really my style - she knew what she was signing up for.

Anyways, there’s an abundant selection of Volvos near here.  If I end up going for something like a Camaro or Mustang, I’d definitely be willing to travel to get the right car for the right price. 

MrSnrub > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2020 at 21:08

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Sounds like you know a lot more about Volvos and Caddies than I do lol. I’m mainly just going by Consumer Reports, which rates the previous gen S60 pretty highly reliability wise and the new one...not as highly. Might be related to dropping the trusty old engines as you say.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > MrSnrub 11/03/2020 at 21:30

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I think dropping the old engines is part of it. I just don’t know about their new ones. Also, I really don’t want to go there, buuuuut... Chinese build quality issues. 

Sovande > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/04/2020 at 11:08

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Here you go

https://carsandbids.com/search/?q=v90

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Sovande 11/04/2020 at 11:22

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I saw that this morning. I love it!!!

And if I didn’t already have a 240 wagon, I’d be really tempted.

In other news, my garage is getting new doors today.  I need to do a bit of trim work out there, and hang some cabinets, and then it will be all done.  And once that’s finished I’m going to jump back on the 240.