The Bronco Sport - but what does HHFP have to say about it.

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 10/06/2020 at 13:38 • Filed to: hammerhead says, Bronco sport, Ford

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It’s a Bronco, but sporty? What does that mean? Isn’t a Sports Utility Vehicle sporty by nature? And if so isn’t the Regular Bronco the Sport? Or does it mean that because the Bronco Sport is a crossover its no longer a Sports Utility Vehicle so it needed to be re-sportified?

So many questions.

One thing I’m certain of, in the world of crossovers...this one swings more towards the SUV side of the scale than others like, say, a Mazda CX3 wearing the same crossover title (and NO...neither of them are SUV’s...that’s why the crossover name exists. CUV’s are not SUV’s)

Speaking of moving the slider, the Bronco Sport is clearly a reaction to its platform-mate, the Focus, going so clearly towards the hatch side and that’s good. The last Escape was neither here nor there and it was obvious. If you are going to pack the market full of small crossovers they might as well be clearly differentiated.

So...is it sporty? No. I mean its got great engines, a benefit of Ford going all-in on Turbo’s.

base is a 1.5 liter with 181 hp and 190 lbs-ft. Optional is a 2.0 with 250 hp and 275 lbs-ft. for 3500-3700 lbs of weight, those numbers sound about right. More important that power is the torque, which I think is what’s going to give credibility to the Bronco title.

The Ford/GM 8F35 8 speed transaxle has a pretty great first gear ratio of 4.69:1 ratio and a final drive of 3.81:1 for a crawl ratio of 17.9:1. On par for the segment but behind leaders in the space pushing 20:1 or more. This is the GM designed 9 speed that Ford decided was one gear too many for its liking. Its been good so far, we’ll see. The good news is that those lub feets are available right near torque converter stall speeds meaning more hp for moving up a hill from a stop than other NA competitors. Whether or not the computers let that happen is still TBD.

What about other off-roadness? angles are good in badlands trim.

8.8 inches ground clearance, 30.4/33.1/20.4 Approach/departure/breakover. Pretty good actually.

For reference, the current Land Cruisers numbers are 8.9 and 32/24/21.

Tires are a nice meaty 29 inch AT tire (with full size spare). and unlike some of its other competitors it appears wheel travel was given at least a little consideration.

Another thing...it has a real skid plate.

Which sucks for the shops selling ugly, overly thick aftermarket aluminum plates that kill clearance and make oil changes suck.

In its most off-roadiest trim (badlands) it also comes with an andvanced twin clutch RDU that is the new hotness in the cute off-roader space. If you feel like torturing yourself you can read more about crossover AWD systems !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . The twin disc system is a basic on-demand type AWD system that doesn’t have a center differential, instead using clutches to engage and disnengage the rear axle as needed. Most simple systems have a single clutch in the Rear Drive Unit that does the job, locking up as demanded, or programed and then slipping or disengaging for fuel economy or turning. A Twin disc replaces the single clutch on the input shaft and replaces it with clutches on each output.

This is the GKN twinster which is probably the same or similar unit on the badlands. No differential here, just a pinion driving a spool to 2 output shafts that are only conntected via cltuches. The idea is simple enough. You want AWD? lock up both clutches. You need to turn? Lock up the outside and slip the inside. You have a wheel in the air with no resistance? Disengage that clutch and lock up the other one.

This is the actual hector, so yeah...pretty much.

Here’s the rub. It, like all on demand systems, is not meant as a substitute for 4WD and these small units and their small cluches have limits. Usually they are calibrated to take about 50% of the power. Don’t get excited...that doesn’t mean a 50/50 split. It means no more than half the engine torque can go to the rear axle. In 4wd or a “50/50" split system 100% of the torque can go to either axle automatically. The good news is that these units are far more efficient with that 50% than regular single clutch units with differentials that have to use brakes to redistribute torque.

if your back axle needs that 50% torque but only one wheel can handle it, it will give it all to that one wheel. In brake based systems only half of the torque can go to either of the rear wheels and its done reactively with brakes, not proactively at the diff. The best way to think of it is that a twin disc is a combination center and rear LSD.

Thats good. Not 4WD good, but good considering.

So it off-roads...what about the rest? Well it looks nice, inside and out, and im a fan of the obvious efforts to make activities like biking easier. It reminds me of the old Escape No Boundries rack which was a less useful version of the same idea.

So...what of it?

When I was growing up there was a definied point in most Utahns lives. The moment they sell their Jeep for their Subaru. Its the moment you realize as much fun as the Jeep was, it was time for something that was drivable and affordable to fill up. That was kinda the only real choice for people who still wanted to bike, hike and so forth but make that change. It was a point that happened to most responsible folk. I myself had a Cherokee and went to a RAV4.

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Today we call those vehicles “most cars”. Still, some certainly do it better than others, with some others are barely more than thin attempts to move more metal by appealing to the advantages of a taller car with the pretense of additional capability...even if its only 2wd.

Whats my point? I think this Bronco not-sport-utility Sport is closer to the promise of the compromise between the Jeep and the outback than we’ve had in a while.

wafflesnfalafel > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 13:46

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I t’s probably one of the most realistic/useful vehicles of that class - good for folks that do some hiking/mountain biking/skiing/camping but 90% of their normal driving is commute or grocery getting but don’t want/like an Outback or Forester or one of the Jeep/Fiat products. Functional enough for most folks without giving up too much efficiency/daily drive ability.

adamftw > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 13:50

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Good take.

I forgot about those NBX edition Fords. The tube roof racks were pretty nifty, and painting the Explorer in orange was pretty crazy for Ford at the time. This was around “Offroading is Cool! Part I” with the Xterra, new Z71 Chevys, Montero Sport, Kia and Suzuki stuff, TJ Rubicon, the LJ, and 600 different WJ trim levels. Then came the gas crisis, WOMP WOMP.

We are now in, “Offroading is Cool! Part II: Overland Edition.”

HammerheadFistpunch > adamftw 10/06/2020 at 13:51

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“ We are now in, “Offroading is Cool! Part II: Overland Edition.””

Yup.  This time the death of internal combustion might be the end of this epoch.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 13:52

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It looks like there isn’t much cargo space with the rear seat up and I can’t wait to see how crazy the tiger striping gets on the bumpers of these in a few years.

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 13:53

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I’m fine with a plasticky interior in something like this, and it’s not as if the interiors of Jeeps like the Compass and Cherokee are amazing, but at the same time this particular interior is looking rather commercial-grade compared to most other new cars. I get that they were probably going for ruggedness but I feel like there’s a way to be rugged without necessarily looking so low-rent. 

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 13:57

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Another case of “the new brand strategy” being completely confusing— at least for those of us who remember that the original Bronco had two doors . The successor Bronco had two doors . And the “sport” version in the SUV category, such as the Explorer Sport, had two doors.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

So, in upside-down world it makes total sense that a Bronco Sport would have FOUR doors .

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 13:57

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This is the perfect car for my brother. Actually capable on mild off-road, but without the compromise of an actual off-roader. He frequents lots of hiking trails and nature sites for work and recreation, so it’d be very useful for him. He really likes my Xterra, but the fuel economy and ride quality trade offs kill it for him.

adamftw > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 13:57

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Big oof there, but I agree. Not really sure what the next cool car kid phase will be, but I think once we get over the big electric car hump and into it a few years you’ll be seeing lots of these stop-gap type of vehicles getting unloaded quick. Makes me wonder what it will do to prices of certain cars and trucks that are still “old school” like the Toyota trucks, HD pickups, american pony cars, etc.

i86hotdogs > wafflesnfalafel 10/06/2020 at 13:58

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This is why it appeals to me so much. I know I’ll drive it on the roads most of the time, but I will definitely want to find some small trails to stretch the legs a little bit. Plus, I think it looks fantastic. Rugged without going full macho. I really like the 250HP variant. That’s plenty o power for that little thing

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 14:17

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All Broncos deserve a BOAT

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 14:19

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This is a good write up and summarizes my feeling about them. I’m paying attention to the sport, because I could forsee one in a future where I decided to forego the Pajero and Jag and simplify for one vehicle that does it all. Decent to drive to work, reasonable fuel economy by modern standards, room enough activities and just enough off-road capability to (with some care) get anywhere I really need to go. And it isn’t an FCA product. In badlands trim especially, there’s some legit capability off pavement with some care taken to observe what’s in the realm of a limited travel unibody vehicle without a true low range.

It ought to be more than enough to get through a poorly and/or not really maintained at all forest service/blm road when caught in a summer monsoon thunderstorm. If I’m really honest, that’s all the capability I actually need since I’m not interested in off-roading for the sake of off-roading, but rather to get somewhere devoid of all other people for camping/hiking/back packing/mountain biking.

HammerheadFistpunch > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 10/06/2020 at 14:23

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“ I’m not interested in off-roading for the sake of off-roading, but rather to get somewhere devoid of all other people for camping/hiking/back packing/mountain biking.”

Exactly who this is aimed at.  

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 14:39

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In this version of my future, the obvious answer for one vehicle would b e a Tacoma/Wrangler/4-runner/insert mid-size 4X4 truck of your choice here. While they’d all be fine.., I guess, to drive to work, run errands with, take on vacation, but a unibody CUV would be way more fun to drive around on pavement and cheaper to run. This and the Cherokee Trailhawk are probably the only two unibody alternatives I see that offer some legit, middling off road capability in something from the factory. Lifting and sticking some AT tires on a S ubaru/CX-5/whatever is always going to have some serious drawbacks of a drivetrain and suspension never designed to deal with that geometry and massive increase in un-sprung weight.

newnamesameme > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 14:43

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Thanks for the detailed write up. This looks to be a real sweet spot b/n actual function and decent every day livability. That looks to be a winning combo. 

OPPOsaurus WRX > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 15:06

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is for dropped the Escape?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 15:34

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As a Subaru owner who would like a tad bit more chops off the pavement but not willing to go full Jeep (because for a majority of our uses that would be overkill) this definitely sounds like a great option.

Having been around a few Fords in recent years not a huge fan of their build quality or how they age , and there is still the depreciation element (because Subarus don’t depreciate especially out here in the PNW) ...but you gotta pay to play, I suppose.

HammerheadFistpunch > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 10/06/2020 at 15:37

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I hear you on the Ford Quality thing. When I was researching a piece for the regular bronco I was a little surprised their quality reputation was actually as low as it was....but I’ve never owned a Ford I suppose.

I personally couldn’t own one because the ford chime is offensive to my soul.

RallyWrench > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 15:37

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The next phase will be “ Offroading is C ool! Part III: Check out all the frippy dirt tricks we can do with motor control while staying within 50 miles of a charging station!”

camarov6rs > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 15:39

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Your comment about compromise between the Jeep and the Subaru got me thinking. I feel like the Jeep is becoming more civilized, much slower than others, and Subaru keeps pushing to the all show no go mentality. I agree the Bronco sport hits a decent compromise, but one that seems to require a specific trim to accomplish and even then it is solidly more Subaru than dead center.

What is the dead center compromise? The newest mid size trucks with which are getting more civilized but will still be decently rugged in more trims? Full size trucks even though they are HUGE and won’t go on many trails that smaller cars will? The new Defender which uses tech and money to solve the problems of compromise?

UserNotFound > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 15:42

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FYI Ford showed one off with a 1" lift and 31" tires:

I kinda love it.

HammerheadFistpunch > camarov6rs 10/06/2020 at 16:12

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What we need, and I’m frankly amazed we haven’t got, is a crossover that crosses a little closer to SUV but doesn’t go all in. unibody, transverse engine...all the usual fuel saving things...but with good angles and clearances and an AWD system that is more than just adequate . Ideally something that can be modified without too much trouble.

Passport

This

Cherokee

This are all close, the cherokee being the closest. The AWD system in the cherokee isn’t proprietary to FCA. Anyone can build the same 2 speed system with locking rear diff but no one has.  I have to guess that most makes don’t think its worth it.  

camarov6rs > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 17:05

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So an updated Grand Cherokee with the new hybrid system to get decent MPG?

With the advent of 9-10 speed transmissions I could foresee not needing the transfer case if manufacturers would dedicate gears 1-3 to super low gear crawling. I understand that there may be some technical challenges but if they can use all the same equipment and not add weight to reduce their MPG scores and payload it may be worth doing

HammerheadFistpunch > camarov6rs 10/06/2020 at 17:26

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Grand Cherokee is a good example, but I was thinking more like the Forster getting a low range (its had one before). It wasn’t much, either 1.2 or 1.5:1 but reducing your first gear by 20% is still pretty meaningful. in the case of the Bronco sport you would go from 17.9:1 to 21.4:1

I agree that it would be great to have a granny plus 8 speed, but the truth is that packaging and efficiency doesn’t support a reduction past a certain point. That being said, the Escape 1.5T gets a version of the transmission with a 5.34:1 first and revised ratios though the range and comes with the 3.81 final. That would push the crawl ratio to 20.4:1. lets call in 200 lbs-feet at 1700 rpm at 20:1, thats 4000 lbs-ft at the hub which would be plenty.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 17:47

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There’s almost nothing like this on the Oz market other than some of the Chinese offerings and Ford has no intention of doing it in LHD. The advent of affordable Chinese unibody SUVs has pretty much killed off any attempt by the majors to make anything less than a premium offering...and their body on frame ute based 4x4s.

3 Jeeps and a Mazda wants a Fiata > HammerheadFistpunch 10/06/2020 at 19:47

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Repeat ford owner here with 2 mustang GT's and a Focus ST. You couldnt pay me to consider buying from these guys again especially after owning the ST. What a piece of shit that was. 

HammerheadFistpunch > 3 Jeeps and a Mazda wants a Fiata 10/06/2020 at 19:56

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I’ve heard that about the focus

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2020 at 12:11

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I really do think that I’m going to need a vehicle this spring, but the price and fuel economy of a Bronco or Wrangler may be cost-prohibitive.

I kinda wanted the Bronco Sport to be a little more offroady, but eh. I’d love a crossover like you described above.

HammerheadFistpunch > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/28/2020 at 12:16

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This may be of interest to you

gives you a good idea of options and how they work.