Alright Boys and Girls, Decision Made.

"Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness" (long-voyager-2nd-edition) 08/21/2019 at 16:42 • Filed to: Engine Swaps, Voyager, mopar

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Looking into swapping the motor in my 1994 Voyager again, seeings the current 3.3L is severely underpowered compared to the 3.8 it replaced.

I’ve been toying with 2 options:

1. Get an 01+ 3.3L and swap the top end onto my current block, which essentially makes a high comp/cammed 3.3L. Research shows this combo is good for around 210 whp/240 ft-lbs+, but it is a lot of work to pull off thanks to needing to mix parts from each engine.

2. Get an 01+ 3.8L and rewire it to run on my ecm. This makes 215hp/245ft-lbs and only requires swapping some sensors/wiring, the flexplate, and the timing cover so the mount works.

Option 1 nets slightly more power, but requires significant work and premium fuel to keep it happy.

Option 2 nets 65hp/65ft-lbs over my current setup while retaining a mostly stock engine.

Either way, I’m on the lookout for a cheap 3.3/3.8 so I can get this done. Definitely leaning on option 2, now I just need to get the details figured out before I proceed, such as dealing with the returnless fuel system the 01+ engines run.

Yes this means I’ve decided to keep the rally van.

Hopefully someone else on here has some more insight on this.

Decision:

I’ve decided to go for option 2 as it seems the simplest/most reliable way to get a good power bump.

Now I’m on the hunt for a good 3.8l so I can start the swap. I’m also trying to get everything figured as far as what I’ll need to make it work.

From what I can gather ( from the limited info out there ):

I’ll need to use my flexplate so the pickup for the crank sensor is correct. I’ll need to swap my timing cover in so the factory motor mount can be used. I’ll need to sort the wiring so everything reads as it should, including swapping sensors where needed. I may need to go to longer throttle and cruise control cables as the TB is on the opposite side of the engine bay. Exhaust should bolt right up. Intake will be custom as I’m going to be rebuilding my snorkel at the same time.

The only part I’m not sure about is the fuel setup. My engine uses a return style setup, the newer engine is returnless, so how to get that all to work I’m unsure.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 10:24

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Star for keeping the Rally Van. Nobody else could do good by it. 

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 10:25

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opinion 1 - LS swap it and throw a manual in there

opinion 2 - you’re spending much too much time and money on this. get a corolla. Lift kit and call it a day

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 10:28

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Primus has ruined my life. How? My brain refuses to read “Alright, boys and girls” without me hearing “ Hello all you boys and girls; I’d like to take you to the inside world ”.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 08/19/2019 at 10:33

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Option 1: Fuck LS swaps.

Option 2: Fuck Corollas.

LongbowMkII > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 10:46

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Is the 4.0 v6 related? 

Tripper > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 10:58

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Option 2, moar power and easier... Anyone go forced induction on one of these things?

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 10:59

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Seems like the 3.8 would be a better deal.  And that way you’re not Frankensteining it anymore than you have to and have a proven engine to work with.  

Brickman > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 11:15

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#2 is the best way to go. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 11:25

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Wasn't there an option 3 of supercharging the 3.3??

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 11:29

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benn454 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 12:04

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Option 2 sounds like a lot less hassle, expense, and more peace of mind down the road than the Frankenengine.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 12:05

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Counterpoint: LS4 swap - the transverse 5.3L FWD V8, because no, really, you can put an LS into anything.

But really, I think the 3.8L swap sounds like it’s going to net you basically the same as doing the 01+ 3.3L rebuild and it will be less hassle, so I’d go that route.

Also awesome that you’re keeping the Dream alive!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 08/19/2019 at 12:15

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If I was going to go V8 manual, I’m keeping it Mopar, LS swaps are waaaaayyyyyyy to overdone.

If you’ve ever heard of the 2012 Corolla S we owned, you’d understand the Corolla hatred.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/19/2019 at 12:17

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Counter-Counterpoint: I like being different, LS swaps are far from different.

The franken 3.3L is wheel power, so it’s quite a bit more than the 3.8, but I think the 3.8 will be more than enough in reality.

Kiltedpadre > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 12:18

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I’d go with option 2. It gives you a decent power boost without the long term added expense of running premium.

Of course there’s always option three.

Option 3:

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 12:19

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im just busting your chops. I can’t stand modern corollas either. As for LS Swap, I was just throwing out a cliche term.

But my point about spending a lot of time and money on this was not joke. Maybe you are enjoying it more than you should. Maybe some family members would prefer to have your attention diverted to them rather than the van.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 08/19/2019 at 12:19

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Yes, there was.

I’m taking that off the table as I want as little complication as possible while keeping it reliable. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Brickman 08/19/2019 at 12:20

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That’s what I’m leaning on right now. ;)

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 08/19/2019 at 12:21

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Agreed. The extra power of the franken 3.3 is very enticing though......

Realistically, a stock 01+ 3.8 makes 65hp/65ft-lbs more than my current motor, so it’ll feel like a rocket anyway.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Tripper 08/19/2019 at 12:22

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They have, with mixed results, that’s why I pulled that option.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > LongbowMkII 08/19/2019 at 12:23

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It is and I’ve wanted to do that for a long time.

2 issues though:

1. Finding a good 4.0L is next to impossible around here.

2. Installing one requires completely rewiring the van from front to back...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 08/19/2019 at 12:28

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I have about $3500 tied in it currently over the last 5 years , so less than most people’s monthly car payment for a year.

I use it to spend time with my family as I get the kids in on working on it and they enjoy doing things in/with it as much as I do.

So in reality, the time/money spent is  time/money spent with my family.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 12:36

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That’s true. Though still, a FWD V8 in a minivan, regardless of make, is pretty different. Though I imagine trying to mate GM stuff with Chrysler stuff would be a nightmare.

I missed that on first read, that the 3.3 was Wheel and the 3.8 was Crank. I guess at that point it’s up to you what the payback is in terms of hassle vs. power.  Regardless of what you go with, good luck, and I look forward to more stories of van exploits.  

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/19/2019 at 12:39

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There’s actually a guy who did an LS fwd Montana van, it’s pretty neat, look it up on Youtube when you get time.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 17:18

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But think of all the whiny sounds :/

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 08/19/2019 at 17:20

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I’m already hearing some........

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 18:34

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The 3.8L needs premium? Somebody better tell Jeep that.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/19/2019 at 19:05

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pip bip - choose Corrour > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/20/2019 at 05:35

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hellcat conversion

:D

you know you want to

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/20/2019 at 06:51

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Ok, I’m down.

Now, who’s funding this adventure.....

pip bip - choose Corrour > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/20/2019 at 06:55

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i have $3

:D

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/20/2019 at 06:57

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Me too!

Alright, what can we do with $6?

pip bip - choose Corrour > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/20/2019 at 06:58

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2-3 gallons?

:D

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > DipodomysDeserti 08/20/2019 at 07:06

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If I built a frankenstein motor it needs premium due the the 10.5+ :1 compression, the 3.8 on it’s own does not need premium, although I’ve found significant fuel economy gains and smoother running from running premium ( but I think this is due to the lack of ethanol in our premium more than the added octane ).

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/20/2019 at 07:07

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Well, that’ll get me to the junkyard.......

Pretty sure they don’t have any Hellcats though.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/20/2019 at 07:09

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yet

shop-teacher > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 16:45

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I think keeping the RallyVan is a good decision.  I couldn’t imagine anybody paying what it would take for you to part with it.  I don’t mean any offense by that.  You’ve done a ton of work to it, and it’s super cool, it’s just a very limited market that such a vehicle appeals to.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 16:59

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You’re making me want to consider swapping one of these lumps into my 244 when the B23E dies (after  the sun burns out). Can’t wait to see the updates! 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/21/2019 at 17:08

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That could be interesting. Could use the Jeep version for rwd compatiblity....

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 17:10

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Premium fuel typically has less methanol? I s this unique to your locale or typical across most US regions ?

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 17:10

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Someone has likely already done it on Turbobricks. So much shade tree shenanigans there. How I learned to use a cylinder stuffed with string as a crank pulley holder (not sure if this is terrible) 

Michael > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 17:16

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You could use your current returnful fuel system, the feed for the motor just has to be tee’d in between the pump and the (external) fuel pressure regulator

Takuro Spirit > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 17:25

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I have a 3.2 out of a Cherokee that’s missing a few parts but has no miles on it . Love to see you stab that in there and make it work.

shop-teacher > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 17:34

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Higher octane has nothing to do with fuel economy, it is indeed the lack of ethanol in your premium. Alcohol contains less energy than gasoline. Whenever I'm north of the cheddar curtain, I top off with as much ethanol free premium as I can stuff into my truck. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 17:51

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No-brainer, and the heck with that 93 octane noise.

Future next gen S2000 owner > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 08/21/2019 at 18:06

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The answer is maybe. I was hopeful.

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/110140/does-premium-gas-have-ethanol-in-it

If you really want to avoid ethanol.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

MM54 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 19:26

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I think the bigger engine is the right answer

RacinBob > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/21/2019 at 20:07

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Oh I think option 2 is the way to go, I suspect the 3.3 torque is all at the top end, which isn’t a lot of help if the van drivetrain RPM is all at the bottom end....

Glad you are keeping the van, its worth a lot of smiles, you might as well collect them.....

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MM54 08/22/2019 at 07:02

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Something something........no replacement......something something.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > shop-teacher 08/22/2019 at 07:04

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That’s why I added the bit about our premium not having ethanol ;)

I miss the local station that used to have ethanol free 87 octane, my vehicles absolutely loved it, they ran smoother and I generally could pull at 3-5 mpg better economy.

shop-teacher > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/22/2019 at 07:07

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Oh man, ethanol free regular would be incredible!

I don't calculate my fuel economy for each trip, nor do I log it, but my truck gets notably better fuel mileage when I get the ethanol free stuff up there. I wish it was available around here.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Takuro Spirit 08/22/2019 at 07:10

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Are they traverse layout?

Huh, seems they are.

Looking at the specs on it, I would bet it would feel crazy slow mated to my 4 speed, all it’s power is above 4k, it would rarely be able to get into the powerband!

That’s the one thing I hate about our new van, it has to be revved to the moon to have power, I like my torquey SOHC motors that are perfectly happy lugging along.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Michael 08/22/2019 at 07:11

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Can you elaborate on this?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 08/22/2019 at 07:12

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Not sure about elsewhere, but here in WI our premium is No-Ethanol 91 octane. Our 93 octane is the normal 10%.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > shop-teacher 08/22/2019 at 07:17

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I check my mileage every fill up. One because I like to keep tabs, two because it gives me advance warning if something’s not right.

There was one little station in Portage, WI that had an ethanol free 87 octane pump. It was still one of the old style pumps like this:

I think it was last summer they gutted out all the pumps and just paved the whole lot, now it’s just the little auto shop. I was heartbroken to see it shutdown.

Michael > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/22/2019 at 08:58

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Before I write up a whole thing, is this pretty representative of your current system?

shop-teacher > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/22/2019 at 09:07

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Oh man, that’s a bummer!

Michael > Michael 08/22/2019 at 09:11

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Well, if it is, lets work on some fuel system theory!

Basically in any fuel system, a fuel pump feeds a system, and it runs at 12v all the time. The fuel pressure regulator bleeds off the extra above the set pressure by bleeding it back into the tank.

Old school systems feed the fuel rail, and then bleed off the pressure. New systems bleed the excess right in the tank, and only send the correct pressure line. The new system is sometimes called “dead head”

A modified version of the new school system would have the in tank pump, feed an external line, that feeds a Tee that goes to the fuel rail(s) and an external fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pressure regulator exit would go back to your return line to your tank.  This simulates the in-tank fuel pressure regulator without having to tear your fuel tank apart and plug your return line.

“Dead head” system:

Modified system:

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Michael 08/22/2019 at 10:10

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Yes sir it is.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Michael 08/22/2019 at 10:11

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Alright, this is exactly what I was thinking you meant.

Thanks!

Michael > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/22/2019 at 10:16

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You’re quite welcome, I hope it helps!

J ust keep giving us interesting #content to live vicariously through!

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/22/2019 at 10:31

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California sucks for fuel....pretty sure everything has about 10% ethanol.

Takuro Spirit > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/22/2019 at 14:33

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Yeah I like the old tech and torque of the 3.8. Got one in our 2008 parts van. 200k on her and she runs like new.

A 3.2/ 3.6 would be nuts, but you’d need the gears to take advantage of it. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Takuro Spirit 08/22/2019 at 15:33

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Ideally I’d go 4.0L/6-speed, but it would require a lot of rewiring as it’s completely tied into the body harness, so it’s outside of what I want to do.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/27/2019 at 11:26

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What what I really want to see you do is swap in some flavour of the 3.5L SOHC 24V V6 engine...

:-D

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 08/27/2019 at 12:09

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From what I’ve found the 24v engines are too wide to fit in the engine bay without major mods.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/27/2019 at 15:11

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:-(