"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
08/07/2019 at 09:37 • Filed to: Shin bashing
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"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
08/07/2019 at 09:37 • Filed to: Shin bashing | 0
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I’m planning to upgrade from my 10 year old Specialized P.1 AM. I had wanted to upgrade the drivetrain and fork on my current bike but for what I’ll spend on it I may as well go for some new hotness.
I plan to stick to hardtail (because price) and will ride primarily single track in southern Ontario, which includes a good mix of tighter, technical rooted/rocky bits and faster flowy sections.
The main reason for considering 27.5+ bikes is to get more grip and comfort on the rooted, rocky parts that I never really enjoyed on my smaller wheel/narrow tire bike. I’m far from the most skilled rider so I’m hoping the extra purchase in the more technical stuff makes it more forgiving as well.
Top contender is a Salsa Timberjack SLX right now. Opinions on this type of bike and comparison experience with 29ers are very welcome.
Cheers.
razorbeamteam
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 09:51 |
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It’s been a while since’s I’ve ridden a mountain bike, but it used to be my jam. Not a lot of opportunity here in Chicago :(
My take is that the difference is marginal. I remember when 29er was a new thing, and everyone was saying it was worse because it takes more effort to move bigger wheels. There are several 26" vs 29" videos on youtube and the consensus is that 29" is generally better and makes it easier to roll over bumps. 27.5" was meant to split the difference and be the best of both worlds. The 26" argument is that a smaller wheel is stronger, so the downhill guys took a while to make the switch. Modern wheels are lighter and stronger so the argument is pretty weak these days.
As for 27.5" vs. 29", I would think that 29" would have more tire options. That’s the only compelling difference I can think of.
Tripper
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 09:52 |
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I started on a borrowed MTB. An old Schwinn FS with 26". The bike was a piece of shit, but I bought Trek with 29ers and I think I should have gone smaller.
I find myself jerking the bars around a lot more with the larger wheels particularly in slow technical sections. Also when approaching/landing freestyle obstacles I’m all over the place/on the ground with the bigger wheels.
benjrblant
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 09:55 |
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You’ll find many, many opinions on this and they are all across the board. I’m happy to give mine- take it as you’d like.
IMO, 27.5 (non-plus) vs 29 somewhat depends on your frame size. 29 will roll a bit better over 27.5, so I’d recommend 29 for most people unless you’re looking at a small or medium frame- and this is partly because the wheelbase on a 29 can only get so short. I think that riders of small frames are probably better off with a 29, medium could go either way (I tend to prefer 29) and large and up should go 29. You’ll find people that prefer 27.5 over 29 primarily for agility, handling, etc.
Having said this, 27.5+, to me at least, seems like an oddball tire format. It’s oddly specific, pretty niche, and you give up the smaller diameter and handling/agility that people seem to favor in the 27.5 segment.
If you’re looking for advice, my best advice is to stop reading specs and reviews and go demo both bikes, ideally on some terrain that’s comparable to what you’ll be riding. I’d not consider buying a hardtail based on “comfort” as comfort usually comes with the sacrifice of speed, agility, handling, etc, but see which bike you feel more connected with.
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benjrblant
> razorbeamteam
08/07/2019 at 09:56 |
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T he OP is discussing 27.5+, not 27.5. There’s a pretty significant difference between 27.5+ and 29.
OPPOsaurus WRX
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 10:05 |
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going from a 26 to a 29 i felt like I couldn’t turn as tight/fast. I think your center of gravity is slightly higher. Some of that came back as i got more experience with the bike. I think the smaller frame of the 26 makes it more maneuverable but less capable of clearing obstacles. 29s can roll over everything. i’ve gone over fallen trees and had the gears clear it and my friend behind me tried doing the same and bottomed out. the 29 can fly down trails, just eats up roots and rocks. I think it makes up a little for having a hard tail vs full suspension.
I have had issues with the wheels which i’ve never had before. I broke a few spokes and bent a rim over.
the 27.5 is supposed to give back some the the maneuverability and wheel strength while also giving some extra clearance and ability to clear obstacles.
adamftw
> benjrblant
08/07/2019 at 10:06 |
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This. Ride the bikes. I’m almost 6' and prefer my 29er, but my friends who are a few inches shorter prefer their 27.5s and 27.5+ bikes. I’ve never had an issue with the larger tires on slow technical stuff, only thing that slows me down once in a while are my wide bars through narrow trees. I prefer a hardtail but that's mostly based on my local trails, nothing else.
FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> OPPOsaurus WRX
08/07/2019 at 10:14 |
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He’s talking about 27.5+ though which is really somewhere in between 27.5 and 29. I ride a plus... it’s odd. It isn’t maneuverable. But it is insanely durable - I’m still reprogramming my brain to the kinds of nasty looking sharp rocks I can ride over without damaging the tire or wheel.
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benjrblant
> benjrblant
08/07/2019 at 10:19 |
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Sorry, there’s a typo- should read 27.5 for small frames, either for medium, and 29 for L/XL, unless you have a significant preference one way or the other. but again, 27.5 is not the same as 27.5+
PowderHound
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 10:21 |
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I would think for a hard tail 29ers would be great as you can roll over thing easier and not send as much vibration through the frame. I run 27.5 on my full suspension and they are worlds of difference from the 26 I was on. I’m about 5’9” and everything I have got on a 29 it always feels too big could be because they were all large or xl frames.
I would lean toward a 29er with fatter tires and maybe a cushcore insert or similar to run some lower psi. I’m always somewhat new to the mtn bike world and after spending tons of time researching for my bike it seems the beat is to go try a few out and see what you like. That’s as long as you have a lbs around or a demo day at your trailhead coming up
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FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 10:28 |
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27.5+ rider here!
I love it BUT I bought it without realizing exactly what I was getting into because it popped up on CL in my frame size and price range and I pretty much impulse bought it. These tires absorb everything I throw at them here in northern NM which includes a lot of sharp rocks and one foot or more drops from rock to hard-pack . But the thing is a bear to handle in t ight spots and I end up rubbing it against a lot of things and putting a foot down more than I’d like at low speeds . I think if you’re over about 5’10” and not in the the Southwestern US that a 29” might be a better choice. This is a lot of words to say that 27.5+ is awesome but please demo both if you can and pick which feels better.
Also if you do get a 27.5+ definitely go tubeless.
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razorbeamteam
> benjrblant
08/07/2019 at 10:28 |
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Clearly I’ve been out of the game for a while. I didn’t even know that was a thing!
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benjrblant
> razorbeamteam
08/07/2019 at 10:32 |
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the bike industry has become so fragmented and segmented, it’s super difficult to keep tabs on all the new “standards”
i’m not jaded by this, not at all. nooooope.
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benjrblant
> FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/07/2019 at 10:34 |
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Might be planning a MTB trip your way sometime this fall!
Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 10:38 |
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I had a 27.5+ (Specialized Fuse Expert) for a year and I rode it as equipped with the 3" tires and also with normal 29" wheel and 2.3" tires. After my experience I am not a 27.5+ hater but it is not optimal for me. The negatives of the 3" tires for me out weigh the positives. The positives are, a cushy ride, and good initial traction. The weird thing is that when pushed hard the 3" tires tend to let go sooner than the 29" tires I had. The only time I like riding the 3" tires is when the weather is absolute shit and there is mud and snow and ice to contend with.
The traction at lower speeds is great and I’m not trying to get any PR’s on those days. The 27.5+ tries and wheel combo is about as heavy as you can get for a wheel set too, so it can take some grunt to get things moving.
The salsa timberjack with the 29" wheels would be an excellent bike for your conditions. Get a dropper post too if you can. Specialized has also re-issued the Fuse at a lower price point and you can get it with either 29" wheels or 27.5+ set up. The Fuse is a much more refined and better engineered bike than the Salsa. Salsa is owned by QBC and they make some cool bikes but quality and detail are lacking.
DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 10:45 |
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So I ride a Kona Honzo and I have a buddy who rides a Santa Cruz Chameleon with 27.5+ tires which I’ve had some seat time on. Both bikes have pretty similar geometry to each other and to the Timberjack you’re looking at. My wife also rides a Cannondale Scarlet which has 27.5+ tires.
As far as differences in how the wheels perform...they’re more similar than you might think. The extra volume d oes make a difference in muting some of the trail chatter but in the end it’s s till a hardtail and will feel like a hardtail on the trail. (Taint piledriver)
T
he lower tire pressure you can run with the extra volume of 27.5+
pressures can
make a difference on loose or sandy terrain. While overall 27.5+ can be somewhat grippier
I wouldn’t write off a 29er with a set of nice grippy tires. My Honzo came with Minions and while it’s definitely overkill I can’t remember a circumstance where I lost grip and my buddy on his Chameleon didn’t. However my riding style is hard and I like to do features and jumps and as a result in the last year I’ve had to have my wheel tried 3 times and I popped a spoke a few months back on a landing. I definitely think some extra tire volume would’ve helped there.
I will say this, a 29er does feel a bit faster, and is a bit easier to get the wheels turning up to speed, but a good rider on a 27.5+ is much faster than a slow rider on a 29er.
My 2¢ is that the quality of tires you have and the geometry of the bike are far more important than the wheel size. Wheel size tends to just be preference. To echo what benjrblant said; go demo some bikes, and then buy what you like. Don’t overthink it. After you demo i f you’re leaning towards plus tires then buy a bike with plus tires. I like 29ers so that’s what I ended up with.
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razorbeamteam
> benjrblant
08/07/2019 at 10:49 |
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I believe it. The bike industry has always been trying to sell The Next Best Thing (TM) for years. IMO the best bike you can buy is the one you will ride a lot.
I got into road biking when I moved to the city, but eventually got sick of riding in traffic and having nothing to do but stare at my front wheel. I would kill to live near some woods.
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OPPOsaurus WRX
> FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/07/2019 at 10:57 |
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i didn;t know what the + was. i had to google that, loks like a 26" fattie had a baby with a 29er.
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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> benjrblant
08/07/2019 at 10:57 |
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No doubt, NM looks like an amazing place to ride. So many damn trees in montana.
nermal
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 10:58 |
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It really depends on what you want to do. I like doing dumb stuff, and I’m on a long travel 27.5. It pedals poorly. It’s heavy. It has a cheap drivetrain and shifting is a bit rough, but it works. The front end is raked out too far, and it’s wobbly and unstable when going slowly.
Once you build up the confidence to go fast & start jumping off of stuff, it’s amazing. Same goes for days at the bike park.
Skip the local shop and buy direct. Commencal / YT / Canyon / etc. Unless you’re dropping $8k - $10k on something completely customer , y ou’ll get the same thing but better spec’d and cheaper.
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FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> benjrblant
08/07/2019 at 11:02 |
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Give me a shout if you do!
(Though I might be gone bikepacking at Big Bend which is my fall trip.)
I only do a small fraction of what is available here but I can get you in touch with friends of mine who are in the local bike patrol if you have any questions. There are a staggering amount of publicly accessible trails here and it takes years to learn them all. But the community here is very active (I’d say a good 25% of the cars in my parking lot right now have a full suspension bike on the roof on in the pickup bed) and keep them in good shape for riding. PS - if you are able try to pick dates that the leaves are changing in the Jemez and Sangre de Christo mountains its absolutely gorgeous.
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FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> OPPOsaurus WRX
08/07/2019 at 11:03 |
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Yeah its a weird one - around since 2016 maybe? I wish it had a different name because the “+” is easy to miss. I didn’t even realize what I was buying when I bought mine - though I am happy overall with it.
functionoverfashion
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 11:10 |
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Indeed there are many opinions on this topic, and there’s just no substitute for trying bikes out. I rode a ton of bikes before buying my Trek full-suspension 29er about 5 years ago, and I loved it. When I was shopping again this year, I tried a 27.5+ also, and was impressed. But the trails around here are just better suited for a 29" wheel to be able to roll up and over logs, rocks, full-on stone walls, and ledges. I personally don’t feel a loss of handling in low-speed technical stuff, but maybe because that’s my favorite kind of thing and I’m really good at it.
The guys I ride with all feel that 27.5 is a sort-of compromise size that, while it has some advantages, will probably be phased out in favor of 29's and true fat bikes. I don’t know if that’s true, due to some of the points others here have made (if you’re shorter, you might prefer the smaller tire size) but I guess time will tell. It certainly wouldn’t stop me from buying one if I loved it. I came pretty close, to be honest. But in the end, I just put the widest tires on my new 29er that I could fit, and I air them down a little for maximum grip.
Go ride ‘em and you’ll know.
CobraJoe
> razorbeamteam
08/07/2019 at 11:23 |
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I would kill to l ive near some woods.
Have you searched for some singletrack trails in your area? Looks like there are quite a few of them scattered around Chicago.
I certainly was surprised to find 6 different trails within Omaha’s city limits, and one is only a few miles from my house.
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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/07/2019 at 11:24 |
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Since your bike is equipped with the 27.5+ wheels/tires you can use 29" wheels and tires in a 2.3" width without issue. The diameter is basically the same, I think the 29er tire is about 5 mm larger in diameter than the 27.5. The bike will be a different animal.
Ready for an adventure!
> benjrblant
08/07/2019 at 11:30 |
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5000 STAR S TO THIS COMMENT
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razorbeamteam
> CobraJoe
08/07/2019 at 11:49 |
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There are trails about 45 mins or so away. I don’t mean to say there’s NO place to ride, but they are mostly flat hike/bike/horse trails.
Where I used to live near Cincy, I could ride 15 mins to some pretty awesome trails. Here, its pretty much relegated to the weekend time, which is a precious commodity often consumed by other grown up obligations...
Also, I just like whining.
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CobraJoe
> razorbeamteam
08/07/2019 at 11:57 |
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Gotcha, a hour and a half round trip takes a lot of time (it’s also why I haven’t tried any of the other trails in my city). I was just wondering if you’d get lucky to find something close by after a search, but I should have figured that was already considered.
AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> OPPOsaurus WRX
08/07/2019 at 13:03 |
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That’s exactly what it is
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AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 13:06 |
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Demo all the things. Only way to know for sure what's best for you.
Out, but with a W - has found the answer
> DasWauto
08/07/2019 at 14:41 |
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Most if not all 27.5+ bikes clear 29er wheels, though it doesn’t always work the other way around. Given that the diameter of a 27.5x3.0 wheel is pretty much the same as of a 29x2.25, geometry should carry over between both wheel sizes. The point being that if you buy
one (27.5+) frame you can swap out wheelsets depending on the riding you’re planning to do.
Salsa says as much on the Timberjack’s page by the way: clearance for 27.5x 2.8-3.0 and 29 x 2.1-2.6.
A word of caution: a regular 27.5 frame will almost never clear 29er wheels, while putting (regular) 27.5 tires in a 29er frame will leave you with geometry issues (mainly pedal clearance).
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DasWauto
> benjrblant
09/07/2019 at 21:06 |
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Apologies for the late reply but I wanted to thank you for your feedback. I did end up riding a bunch of both types of hardtail and made a purchase that unintentionally ended up well outside of what I had intended to buy. Rather than spelling it all out to all who replied here, I typed up a follow up, if you’re interested: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
09/07/2019 at 21:09 |
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I appreciate the feedback and I actually ended up unintentionally going a similarly off my initial track with a used purchase. Rather than writing it all up to everyone that responded here, here is my follow up, if you’re interested: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> OPPOsaurus WRX
09/07/2019 at 21:10 |
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I actually ended up jumping from 26” to 29er, and to full suspension, unintentionally: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> razorbeamteam
09/07/2019 at 21:12 |
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I remember all said hoopla around 29ers when they came out as I bought my last mountain bike 10 years ago. I ended up on a 29er with full suspension, despite my intent to keeping my spending sensible :)
https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
09/07/2019 at 21:14 |
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Apologies for the late reply but I appreciate your feedback here. I ended up veering off my intended trajectory a bit: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
09/07/2019 at 21:16 |
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I ended up ordering said refreshed fuse a couple of weeks ago, which didn’t end up working out, so I shot my budget to hell and went full squishy: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> nermal
09/07/2019 at 21:19 |
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Apologies for the late reply - I ended up going a bit off my planned track with a used full suspension 29er: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
I can now echo your assertion that these bikes can feel at bit wobbly at slower speeds and that they’re better as speed builds with confidence. :)
Thanks for the feedback.
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DasWauto
> Out, but with a W - has found the answer
09/07/2019 at 21:22 |
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Sorry for the late reply but I can finally follow this up. There were indeed a couple of bikes offering both wheel options on the same frame. I ended up ordering a Specialized Fuse Comp (29er) but that didn’t work out so I blew the budget and went full suspension: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> functionoverfashion
09/07/2019 at 21:24 |
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After a riding sever bikes and ordering one I had liked I ended up destroying my planned sensibility and budget for a Trek full suspension bike :)
https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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DasWauto
> PowderHound
09/07/2019 at 21:25 |
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Trying out everything I could is exactly what I wound up doing. I ended up somewhat off track from my planned reasonable budget for a hardtail and got a full suspension 29er: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/mtb-oppos-i-have-bought-a-wheeled-cloud-1837960188?rev=1567904517188
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Out, but with a W - has found the answer
> DasWauto
09/08/2019 at 10:16 |
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Blowing the budget is an important part of being a cyclist. Next up : N+1.
Enjoy the bike!
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DasWauto
> Out, but with a W - has found the answer
09/08/2019 at 10:19 |
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There’s always N+1. N is currently 3 so I’ll just enjoy this one for now. :)
/already thinking I might still replace the current hardtail