Is Boeing too big to fail?

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 05/03/2019 at 13:16 • Filed to: None

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WSJ reported toda that even test pilots weren’t familiar with the 737 MAX  changes and that the communications between the engineers and the pilots broke down over time

For Sweden > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 13:26

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Discussions between engineers and pilots break down all the time though

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 13:29

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Yes

Tekamul > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 13:32

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No one should talk to engineers.

Spanfeller is a twat > For Sweden 05/03/2019 at 13:35

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Months? 

random001 > For Sweden 05/03/2019 at 13:36

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Any discussion with an engineer is bound to break down...

Spanfeller is a twat > Tekamul 05/03/2019 at 13:37

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perhaps

For Sweden > random001 05/03/2019 at 13:38

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Maybe the other party should get good at listening

ttyymmnn > Tekamul 05/03/2019 at 13:42

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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 13:45

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My best friend is a pilot and I am an engineer, we often go months without talking then he asks me how fix the drainage problem at his house that he paid for with his money earned flying SWA 737's. He’s also terrible at driving cars, the man can fly a plane with 180 passengers but doesn’t know how to not get a speeding ticket or brake safely on ice?

ttyymmnn > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 13:51

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Not trying to exonerate Boeing, or the FAA, who also has a lot of culpability here, but I think it has a lot to do with just what MCAS does. Contrary to what the media has been reporting, it’s not an anti-stall device. It’s more of an anti-pitch up device that should only come on in very certain circumstances. Boeing’s position is that pilots didn’t need to know about it because it would function in the background and they’d never know it was there. But it seems now that Boeing never considered what would happen if it broke. Problems arose with a lack of redundancy, reliance on a single sensor (!!!), optional equipment that would have told the pilots that there was a problem, and the mistaken belief that pilots didn’t need to know about it . Hell, they even told SWA that their MAXs had disagree lights for the AOA sensors when in fact they didn’t. Boeing is definitely guilty of hubris, and perhaps even manslaughter through negligence or omission.

But Boeing the company is not going anywhere. They are too diversified, and the airlines need the planes. Once the MAX is cleared to fly—and assuming there are no more crashes—this will be a blip on the balance sheet. As a result, MCAS will come out more robust, perhaps as robust as it should have been in the first place had the FAA done their job, and had Boeing shown a little less hubris. One thing they may have lost, though, is their mantle of building airplanes  for pilots, favoring flying skills over automation. Based on other reports about lax processes in the factory, airplanes delivered with FOD inside, etc, it sounds like Boeing is in need of a major ass kicking right now. Maybe a new CEO?

Spanfeller is a twat > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/03/2019 at 13:56

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I am quite alarmed by the “braking safely on ice” 

Spanfeller is a twat > ttyymmnn 05/03/2019 at 14:01

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United didn’t even bother with the safety equipment ...

the media has made some interesting takes about the 737, few outlets reported on Lion Air’s terrible maintenance procedures, but I think it’s by far the smallest offender in this case.

Also, a spokesman for the APA said MCAS was an anti-stall device, so maybe that’s what confused the media .

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 14:12

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I taught him how to “test” the brakes, after that he would jab the brakes to test traction like every 5 minutes until I got motion sick. He did say his Montana winter driving has helped him not slide off runways. 

ttyymmnn > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 14:15

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There is fault to go around. Little has been sai about the manufacturer of the aoa sensor itself, but I believe they are part of the investigation.

For Sweden > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 14:40

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United didn’t bother with the safety equipment for the same reason people don’t buy optional blind spot monitoring.  Why pay more for what you (think) you don’t need?

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/03/2019 at 14:46

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Those are separate skills with separate spheres of components.

Those things are basically huge bu ses in the sky. And I wouldn’t the best bus driver in my neck of the woods to do anything else driving related even if he operates one of the most complicated buses in the world.

It’s like asking a surgeon to do needle and thread work - it sounds the same but I bet no matter how good of a surgeon he is your pants don’t get hemmed correctly.

Besides, he probably doesn’t have to pay as close attention on the driving test as he does on the flying ones. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 05/03/2019 at 14:56

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I think he puts all of his mental focus into flying planes and doesn’t put that level of attention into driving cars. 

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/03/2019 at 15:07

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Sounds kind of like how former F1 drivers often have really sedate cars for driving in regular streets. They have separation of jollies and tasks. 

DipodomysDeserti > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/03/2019 at 15:10

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I used to know a pilot would flew international flights. The guy was very aloof and extremely strange.

BahamaTodd > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 15:12

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Some more background on why the 737-Max came to be instead of an all new plane.

My bird IS the word > ttyymmnn 05/03/2019 at 15:14

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You'd think with the supposed quality of their people and engineers things like this wouldnt happen

ttyymmnn > My bird IS the word 05/03/2019 at 15:22

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If the news reports are to be believed, it sounds like people are just getting lax. Maybe they’re working too fast. God knows there have been serious problems with the KC-46. Sounds like they need some new leadership on the shop floor, or maybe a stand down for a few days to remind everybody that quality work saves lives.

Spanfeller is a twat > BahamaTodd 05/03/2019 at 15:32

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Wendo ver

Productions

Video

I love that guy

Spanfeller is a twat > For Sweden 05/03/2019 at 15:52

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Maybe they thought they would own the plan e from beginning to end and didn’t care about resale value?

TorqueToYield > Tekamul 05/03/2019 at 16:14

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I resemble that remark.

TorqueToYield > ttyymmnn 05/03/2019 at 16:18

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There’s a lot of politics involved with the Boeing SC plant quality stuff.

It boils down to it’s not unionized when other Boeing plants are.

So every few years right before a unionization push some key ‘retired quality managers’ leak stuff to the press that may or may not be true.

And if you’ve ever worked with quality managers, they’re not only huge bullshitters but also way over-exaggerate quality problems.

TorqueToYield > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 16:22

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The executives are crying into their piles of money

Spanfeller is a twat > TorqueToYield 05/03/2019 at 16:30

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I think that they’re just gonna come out with 7X7 MAX jets now... rather than actually design anything new. 

Spanfeller is a twat > TorqueToYield 05/03/2019 at 16:33

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also Airbus (top) seems a lot healthier than Boeing (bottom) in the same time period. 

pip bip - choose Corrour > Spanfeller is a twat 05/03/2019 at 23:41

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no company is too big to fail