The decision that all fiero owners must face

"Ike" (untitledcarshow)
03/19/2019 at 17:43 • Filed to: bad decisions

After consulting with the car oracles I need to do some major work to get the 2.8 stock V6 healthy. So I have come up with some options to replace it. I’m keeping the stock 4 speed regardless of the outcome here.

LS4 (Pro : POWER! Con: lots of fab work / expensive )

12a rotary engine (Pro : Rotary! Size & weight, Con: lots of fab work, apex seals

Supercharged 3800 (Pro : plentiful, easiest to swap. Con : weight & power are not great)

Or just fix it (Pro: it’s still stock. Con : power isn’t good, what breaks next? )

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

DISCUSSION (56)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Ike
03/19/2019 at 17:56

380038003800
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3800

CaptDale - is secretly British > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
03/19/2019 at 17:57

Proper answer

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Ike
03/19/2019 at 17:59

Quad 4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_4_engine

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:01

Supercharged 3800 is the right answer.

LS4 is the answer we all wish was right.

Northstar is the beautiful masochist choice.

PS9 > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:01

LS Swap. Healthy V8 > Healthy V6

Future next gen S2000 owner > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:02

Northstar !

Future next gen S2000 owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
03/19/2019 at 18:03

No.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)
03/19/2019 at 18:04

I vote Northstar. I fuckin love Northstars.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:09

May I present: two other options

L32 swap

Pros: super easy, little-to-no fab work needed, 20 extra hp and 30 extra lb-ft, no weight penalty, super cheap, won’t grenade the transmission.

Cons: not ultra exciting.

LNF swap

Pros: lighter, 130 extra horsepower and 90 extra lb-ft on the stock Cobalt SSTC computer, already has a reasonably stout transmission that had an optional LSD, boost noises, terrifyingly quick with cheap bolt-ons

Cons: lots of fab needed, somewhat pricey, clean shorts budget might eat into tire budget.

lone_liberal > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:09

What Jake said.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:11

Oooooooorrrrr......Supercharged Ecotec? You can make a beefier supercharged MR2 competitor

MoCamino > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:12

Supercharged 3800. Pro: been done a billion times and will be easier to sort out, and will have plenty of power for a Fiero. Con: not as much power as the LS (which is also kind of a pro because you’re less likely to kill yourself).

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:12

Silly question, why do you need to stick with a GM engine (other than the Rotary option)...is there something like an older Toyota engine / trans with a manual you could easily find in a local salvage yard, etc?

Lots of fab work to fit a non-factory engine in there yes, but even more fab work if you are swapping in a different engine and using the factory transmission as you need to get the bell housing to mate up, which means adapter plates etc. If you go with a different engine / trans, I imagine there’d be a little less fab work at least and you might even be able to upgrade to a 5-speed?

OPPOsaurus WRX > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:13

Audi bi turbo V6

Urambo Tauro > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:14

Supercharged 3800 (Pro : plentiful, easiest t o swap. Con : weight & power are not great)

I dunno, that sounds like a pretty substantial power upgrade to me... How much of a weight penalty are we talking about here?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:16

Alternatively - fuck the haters and keep the stock engine.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:18

Would a 3400 be a bolt in replacement? Power would be up about 25% and parts would still be off the shelf and they are likely dirt cheap.

boredalways > Future next gen S2000 owner
03/19/2019 at 18:19

[Fist of the] Northstar!

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:20

E: GM LQ1 DOHC 3.4L V6. Same 60-degree V6 engine family, but modern DOHC valvetrain.

OE in Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, Lumina Z34, etc...

optional getrag 5-speed, or Pontiac G6 6-speed can be fitted, IIRC.

with aftermarket exhaust, (not GM-choked-out OE exhaust on those engines), it could even sound good, as well as being a healthy dose more power in pretty much the same space as the 2.8 it replaces.

(if it were an iron-duke car, I would say W41 Quad-4 as the replacement)

at least an LS4 is aluminum, though, if you do go that route.... If you are going pushrod... why not go with an aluminum block with good aluminum heads , and 8 pistons, rather than an iron 3.8 with a big supercharger.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:23

3800 or N*

boredalways > Ike
03/19/2019 at 18:26

Would an LP9 fit?

Kinja'd!!!

Ike > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
03/19/2019 at 18:43

I will except these as Options especially the l32, why haven’t i seen much about this online? It seems like the perfect option?

Ike > Future next gen S2000 owner
03/19/2019 at 18:43

Same price as a LS4 but it’s a worst motor from what I can see

Ike > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
03/19/2019 at 18:44

I would do quad 4 if I had a duke as my engine. Also I can’t seem to find any near me

Ike > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
03/19/2019 at 18:45

Lots of modifications needed to get Ecotec to work and power isn’t enough for me to make that leap, I did research it quiet a bit!

Ike > OPPOsaurus WRX
03/19/2019 at 18:46

I have a i5 turbo Audi motor in my shed...

Ike > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
03/19/2019 at 18:46

I see... so not the 3800?

Ike > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
03/19/2019 at 18:48

Mostly fab work, if I keep it to the same bell housing bolt pattern it saves me a ton of head ache in terms of fitting it in. If I had more time I would prob do a fiat 500 abarth motor or a ford 1.0 motor

Ike > Urambo Tauro
03/19/2019 at 18:51

Iirc it’s like 200 extra pounds to the car

Ike > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
03/19/2019 at 18:52

Blown oil rings (and prob all other rings) on all pistons

Ike > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
03/19/2019 at 18:53

The 3400 bottom end swap is the most likely thing I would do if I wanted to stay with the stock top end , and I can use the stock ecu ( longer connecting rods, and bigger injectors needed)

Ike > boredalways
03/19/2019 at 18:56

Probably? It may be doable, I know Atleast one forum post had a guy starting the project, I don’t know if he finished it (browsing old forums takes a while)

Ike > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
03/19/2019 at 18:58

I seem to recall (maybe mistakenly) that the DOHC would interfere with the fire wall on the fiero.

Ike > PS9
03/19/2019 at 18:58

This is a fact. More pistons = more better

Ike > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
03/19/2019 at 18:58

Can I ask why?

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Ike
03/19/2019 at 19:01

The L32 really is the perfect OEM+ option for most Fiero owners. It’s not too exciting, but it’s impossible to do better for less.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Ike
03/19/2019 at 19:04

If this was a mint condition Fiero that was completely stock, then I would say you should keep it stock and just fix it.

Or i f you have any aspirations of making money on it as a future collectible, keep it stock

If that’s not the case, o f those 3 options, I would go with the 3800 V6... but the later one with 240HP.

And if doing a rotary, why would you do a 12A (makes less power than the 2.8L V6) and not a 13B-DEI or 13B-DEI turbo?

Also I’ve heard of some people swapping in Northstar V8 engines.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Ike
03/19/2019 at 19:04

It’s good to over 8000 RPM with valve springs and head studs IIRC. No more powerful than an LS4 but quite a different delivery.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Ike
03/19/2019 at 19:09

Either would be a cool idea! Good luck though, looking forward to hearing more about the project!

No Fieros in local salvage yards with potentially OK motors?

Ike > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
03/19/2019 at 19:10

12a purely because I can get one for next to free and rebuild if

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Ike
03/19/2019 at 19:13

Would the rebuild include adding a turbo? Because if not, I hope you like the “drive a slow car fast” thing.

Ike > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
03/19/2019 at 19:20

there’s a quad 4 with wiring harness and everything close to me... and it’s the good 180hp version...

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Ike
03/19/2019 at 19:38

Cuz they're cool

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > Ike
03/19/2019 at 20:12

Nope. Just have to section a bit out of the decklid hinge. Bolts up to the transmission! Will need a 88 2.8 front mount though

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > Ike
03/19/2019 at 20:13

Dump the stock top end. Please. The 2.8 is atro cious.

19JRC99 > Ike
03/19/2019 at 20:31

3800. LS engines are overdone IMO (yes, I’m aware of why) , and rotaries just don’t interest me personally.

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > MoCamino
03/19/2019 at 20:38

And if you have all the parts ready to go, it can be done in a weekend.

nermal > Ike
03/19/2019 at 21:33

Find one of the old Oldsmobile Diesel engines!

Ike > nermal
03/19/2019 at 21:47

I’ve looked they are all gone

Ike > 19JRC99
03/19/2019 at 21:48

I’ve been made aware of the quad 4 and I’m liking that, but is it acceptable to take awake 2 pistons in the pursuit of performance?

19JRC99 > Ike
03/19/2019 at 22:09

Well, that’s not my place to judge. Personally, I like 8 cylinders most, followed by 6.

Since the V6 is the most interesting of the options listed, that’s what I chose. I think an era-correct small block would be cool. Sort of a “what if GM made a V8 Fiero”

phenotyp > Ike
03/19/2019 at 23:45

Dropping my vote for the rotormotor. Back when I bought my 914, they were so cheap that people were doing 13B swaps in them, and I still dream of buying one just to try it.

nerd_racing > Ike
03/20/2019 at 08:52

I’m going to advocate Rotary, but go with a 13B with a carbie. More power, similar weight/size. Plus you can get newer ones and the S5 NA makes 160 hp stock without forced induction.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
05/16/2019 at 07:15

Less power than the 3800SC, far less torque, far more problematic.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
05/16/2019 at 21:48

I have not heard that a maintained 3.4 DOHC is less reliable than any of the other 60-degree V6s, including both the 2.8 and the 3.8.

Torque is good, but the Fiero isn’t exactly a truck. A high specific horsepower multi-valve scream, low inertia, fast throttle response, no lag or drag engine in a mid-engine sporty car, is a good thing, too.

pushrod engines with lots of valvetrain parts, lash, and inertia, with or without the drag and pressure of a supercharger is an easy way to make power, but with all the grace of a sledgehammer.

Sometimes a scalpel, or even just a sharp camp knife is a good kind of different.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
05/17/2019 at 07:05

The 3400 is notorious for HG issues. They also seem to like just blowing up without prior warning. I run away as fast as I can from anything 3400 powered.

Given the DOHC layout they are a tight fit in most cars, making them a nightmare to work on as well.