Success!

"Future Heap Owner" (aperiodic) 03/17/2019 at 10:07 • Filed to: Sure I guess that counts as success, wrenching

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After 5 hours, I have vanquished the swollen, seized, rusty lug nuts and the rusted-on wheels, and rotated half of my tires! I am nothing if not persistent.

The wet spot underneath the tire is from all the WD-40 rust-penetratent I had to spray into the bolt-holes to get the damn back wheel off. Other than that, the primary sign that I did anything at all is that some of the lug nuts on this wheel are all shiny and new:

Let me defend myself a little for how long this took. It started with jacking up the vehicle, because I hadn’t done it before. I usually use the pinch weld, but there’s plastic cladding on most of it expect for a couple cutouts for the jack. I looked around underneath a bit

and thought I could probably put a jack stand under that big body rail you can see starting pretty much straight up from the CV boot in the picture, but I ended up just putting some rags over the jack to use the plastic-cladded parts of the frame rail for jacking up.

The first wheel came off easily enough. The real problem was the back wheel. The first lug but I took off required bouncing on my breaker bar to dislodge. The next one didn’t even fit in my socket.

At this point, I noticed my neighbor and her boyfriend talking about pushing her dad’s old Ford Torino (not running currently), so I help them roll it over to a new spot on a side street where it hopefully won’t get green-tagged for a bit (the tow warning system in Portland is green stickers on the streetside window, after which you have 72 hours to move it before it’s towed).

After we’ve got the Torino to its new spot, I try a few other sockets, but none has a good fit. I throw up the Oppo-sign, and Nick tells me to go find a 20mm to bang on to the nut. It seems like a good plan, so I bike down to the local hardware store to pick that and a 3/4” up, with the intent of heading over to the nearby O’Reilly’s to get the lug nuts afterwards.

After I get the stuff at the hardware shop, I call the O’Reillys to confirm they have it, since these are, y’know, euro car parts, and not even the most popular at that. They don’t have any, but the third-closest store has 6. I take the truck over there, only to discover that the one they have there, while compatible, is only the bottom part and would expose the bolt and not match the other bits at all. So I drive over to the third O’Reilly’s, a few miles away, and pick up eight of the ten they have.

Finally back home with all the hardware I need, I go back for round two. Hammering the 20mm socket on to the portly nut and then jumping on the breaker bar gets the bad nut off, and the rest came off shortly after.

High on my victory over the nuts, I move in to take the wheel off with the anticipation of soon being done with this... and it won’t budge. No problem, I bit a few smacks/kicks will dislodge it... no dice.

I break out the big boys. I tap lightly all over on the wheel with a ball-peen hammer. Nothing. I wrap the ball-peen hammer in a rag and whack harder. Nothing. I grab the prybar, stick between the wheel and hub, and whack that with the hammer. It’s a rock. I spray penetrating oil on top of the seam between the wheel and hub, wait a few minutes, and try again. No change.

I’m out of ideas, so I go look for some answers on the Internet. It suggests spraying penetrating oil into all the bolt holes (until it’s coming down the rotors and the lower bolt holes, waiting fifteen minutes, turning the wheel over, spraying more oil in, and waiting another fifteen minutes. I take this time to remove a bunch of stickers PO had on the rear windows.

Half an hour later, I try all the same tricks on the wheel. Still nothing! Frustrated with having spent four hours on this and still only having one wheel off, I resort to kicking the rim, as much for stress relief as anything else. It comes loose!

The hub surface after the wheel finally came off. I guess the PNW isn’t *totally* rust-free. Or maybe this is from its first 10 years in West Virginia?

After that, the rest goes smoothly, and I finish up right as my friends arrive to play Civ.

And that is how I spent five hours rotating two wheels.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 01:20

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“penetran t I had to spray into the bolt-holes”

Whoa there.

Future Heap Owner > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 03/17/2019 at 01:32

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Wrenching is a dirty, dirty activity and I won’t apologize for it.

Tristan > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 01:39

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The steel hub and aluminum wheel corrode together on the center of the hub... It pretty much welds the wheel in place. Galvanic corrosion is fun. I helped a friend in college do a brake job on his ‘95 Grand Prix. The left rear wheel was so stuck it took about 20 minutes of beating with a 10-pound sledge to dislodge it, and the wheel was totally destroyed afterward. Thankfully those cars were ubiquitous around MN at that time, so $20 at the junkyard got another wheel.

Nibby > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 10:11

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( °  °)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 10:29

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I like a dab of this. Some argue that this is bad. I like that it lets me avoid the pain and suffering you just endured. Important thing is, don’t over-torque.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 10:48

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At that point I find the biggest possible impact gun & ugga lugga that crap till it comes free. Wheel studs be dammed. 

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 11:37

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My method for getting off stick wheels:

Loosen all lugs  a little

Drive over some big bumps.

Sovande > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 12:19

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The rocker panel has cut outs at the front and back for jack points. You can also jack it up in the front and rear subframes, just be careful of missing the oil pan. I put a bit of anti-seize on the hubs so the wouldn’t stick.

I'd grab a cheap torque wrench for the lugs. 100 ft lbs or there about is good for the lugs. 

Future Heap Owner > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/17/2019 at 12:39

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I’m hoping that  rotating the wheels at least every six months will keep this from happening again.

Future Heap Owner > Sovande 03/17/2019 at 12:43

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Ah, I thought it was a pinch weld. That’s what I used, but I can’t fit both the jack and the stand in the cut-out part at once. Hence the need to use a rag and lift by the plastic-cladded part.

I torqued to the spec of 81 ft-lbs.

Future Heap Owner > MiniGTI - now with XJ6 03/17/2019 at 12:45

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I saw that idea online, and it frightened me. I guess if you only loosen a little and stay at low speeds, you’re probably fine, but dang 

Urambo Tauro > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/17/2019 at 12:49

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Interesting. Despite living in a salt state, my habit has been not to use anti-seize on lugs. Sometimes I see it already applied to a car though, and I don’t bother to clean it off because I appreciate the assurance that the threads won’t be locked up. But so mehow I’ve been getting along just fine without it myself .

I was thinking that maybe the deciding factor was using capped lug nuts (or hub caps that completely cover the lugs from the elemen ts), but the pictures I’m seeing here are making me doubt that. Those studs are definitely rusty, right at the point where the nuts go , and the capped nuts didn’t seem to help prevent that for some reason.

The main concern about using anti-seize is the fear that the lubrication will make it too easy to overtor qu e them, b ut seeing rusty studs like that m akes me think that there’s got to be a way to estimate how much lower one should set the torque wrench to achieve the right clamping force.

And n ow that I actually take the time to google it, this page claims that you should undertorque a lubricated faster by 30%; 40% if using SAE 30 oil.   Here’s another source specifically address ing the use of anti-seize, which claims that you shou ld aim for an undertorque of 25% “ of the minimum proof load specified” . So for lugs like mine with a specified range of 85-105 lb-ft, that would mean approximately 64 lb-ft with anti-sneeze.

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 12:49

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My driveway apron works. I always worry about damaging the alloys/finish  trying to tap/pound. I suppose you could possibly damage the lugs but I’ve done it many times on several different cars and never had a problem. 

Future Heap Owner > MiniGTI - now with XJ6 03/17/2019 at 12:53

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Yeah, if I had any spare wood lying around, I’d’ve put that between the wheel and the hammer. But I didn’t so I used a wrap to prevent marring the wheel.

Loosening the l ugs and driving  does seem like a very effective nuclear option.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Urambo Tauro 03/17/2019 at 13:48

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Sounds about right. I think there is probably a fairly wide variance in what is a safe torque and getting them even is probably of equal importance. I used a tq wrench yesterday set at 80 lb on some dry , clean studs and I was surprised at how light it felt. Overtorquing lug nuts is probably a widespread thing.

Urambo Tauro > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 03/17/2019 at 13:51

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It’s a hotly-debated topic too. I’m gonna do some more research and make a post about it later this week. I’d really like to hear everybody’s input on the subject.

Sovande > Future Heap Owner 03/17/2019 at 14:05

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Oh, gotcha, I misread your post! You can put the jack stands at the lower control arm mount. If I recall it's a triangular piece at the rear part of where the control arm mounts. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Urambo Tauro 03/17/2019 at 14:32

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Ya' just can't talk religion with some people.

Future Heap Owner > Sovande 03/17/2019 at 19:38

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Good to know. I’ll try to find it underneath there soon, and take a picture and reply to your comment again  to confirm that I’ve actually found it. Thanks!

BigBlock440 > Future Heap Owner 03/21/2019 at 22:28

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Same problem as you this past week, but on the second side. The first side I was able to just drop the jack quickly a time or two and it broke loose. The second side I had to soak in penetrant for days, tried taking the brake off, etc. Eventually I had to borrow a puller and use that, it was fun. Everything got generously anti-seized afterwards.