The 737-MAX has now been grounded by the FAA

"You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much" (youcantellafinn)
03/13/2019 at 14:45 • Filed to: None

Things aren’t looking good for Boeing and specifically the 737-MAX series. They have now been grounded by the FAA.

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In related news it appears that pilots have been complaining for some time that the flight manual is insufficient for the MAX 8, and that the control systems have behaved in unexpected ways. It appears that some pilots have had problems gaining altitude after takeoff as the MAX 8 is trying to keep the nose down. There have been at least five voluntary reports to NASA regarding incidents with the MAX 8. NASA acts as a neutral third party for pilots to report incidents to. Unfortunately it appears that the FAA does not do an adequate job of collecting and analyzing the voluntary reports that NASA collects.

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DISCUSSION (33)

Spanfeller is a twat > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 14:53

RIP southwest

CaptDale - is secretly British > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 14:54

Whoopsies

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat
03/13/2019 at 14:56

I just checked my stock, it only got hit by 1% when the news broke. Thankfully they have a lot of other planes to take up the slack, but it won’t be pretty. They only have 35 MAX 8 models out of over 1,000 aircraft.

Spanfeller is a twat > Ash78, voting early and often
03/13/2019 at 15:02

Boeing is definitely in more trouble

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 15:03

Seems like a sensible precaution until they get to the bottom of the problems. Maybe it’s just a fluke that two went down in short order, but it seems awfully suspicious.

Aviation safety people are awfully good at their jobs—personally I fee l better giving them a chance to do their thing.

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat
03/13/2019 at 15:04

I almost shorted their stock the other day in anticipation, but I was too lazy to set up my account to do it. Looks like their stock only took a tiny hit on this news, which likely means the market was already expecting it. The big hit was M arch 11.

KnowsAboutCars > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 15:04

Also grounded in Europe by EASA.

Spanfeller is a twat > Ash78, voting early and often
03/13/2019 at 15:08

It was literally just announced, i think its gonna a bit longer to be impactful

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat
03/13/2019 at 15:09

You underestimate the power of investment banking computers. Probably the most intelligent ( and rigged) system on earth.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > KnowsAboutCars
03/13/2019 at 15:18

Yeah, it’s already been posted on here about all the other places that have grounded the MAX.

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat
03/13/2019 at 15:22

Boeing is already back, look at the trading volume (lower bars) vs the price (upper line). Red commentary is mine...errr, Warren Buffett ’s!

Kinja'd!!!

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 15:31

Kinja'd!!!

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/13/2019 at 15:32

I LOL’ed. Then I thought “too soon” and felt bad. Then I chuckled.

WilliamsSW > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 15:36

Counterpoint - I think that the FAA order is good for Boeing in the long-term, despite the publicity problem.

The MAX is far from the first aircraft to be grounded completely - better to avoid taking the risk of another crash for now, get the aircraft right, then get it back in the air. Remember the Dreamliner being grounded for months? It helps that there were no 787 crashes, but people were skittish about that airplane, too.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny
03/13/2019 at 15:36

There are just too many similarities between the two crashes, at least from the outside looking in. Apparently even the flight safety people are uncomfortable with the similarities even if there isn’t concrete proof. From ttyymmnn’s comment in another thread.

Mr. Garneau, a former astronaut and engineer, said that there were similarities that “exceed a certain threshold in our minds with respect to the possible cause of what happened in Ethiopia. This is not conclusive, but it is something that points possibly in that direction, and at this point we feel that threshold has been crossed.”

Spanfeller is a twat > Ash78, voting early and often
03/13/2019 at 15:42

Strange... but the truth is that if the MAX8 can’t fly, then it can’t crash

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > WilliamsSW
03/13/2019 at 15:44

In the long term you are probably correct saying that Boeing will be fine. I was thinking more in the immediate time frame, and the sense that both crashes seem to link to the same cause. If they have a common cause, that would indicate a systemic failure within Boeing.

Fortunately for me the Dreamliner grounding resulted in me getting to fly on one of the return to service flights. Right after they were cleared to fly, but before they were OK’ed for ETOPS I got to fly on a 787 from Chicago to Houston (and/or back).

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW
03/13/2019 at 15:47

But all they did with the Dreamliner was build a better box to contain the flaming batteries. Still, I agree. Best to take the time and get this sorted.

ttyymmnn > Spanfeller is a twat
03/13/2019 at 15:48

SWA has the most MAX 8s, but they are by no means the bulk of their fleet.

Kinja'd!!!

WilliamsSW > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 15:50

The situation isn’t great for Boeing, I just think that grounding them is the right thing for Boeing right now. Just imagine the shitshow if an AA or SW 737MAX went down with 150 aboard after the FAA and Boeing refused to ground them.

We’ll know for sure soon enough if the cause of the two crashes was the same - there certainly seem to be some similarities between them, at any rate.

I’ve been on a couple of Dreamliner flights, including trans-Atlantic - I love that airplane.

ttyymmnn > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 15:51

So, did Trump order it and the FAA complied, or did the FAA order it?

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn
03/13/2019 at 15:52

I’m just talking about public opinion though, and the general public isn’t going to understand the difference between the two. If you ground it for a bit, declare it fixed, then get it back into the air, the flying public is perfectly happy as long as no crashes occur.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > ttyymmnn
03/13/2019 at 16:05

From the headlines and announcement it looks like Trump ordered it, and the FAA is backing him.

In a statement released after Mr. Trump’s announcement, the F.A.A. also cited “newly refined satellite da ta” as supporting the decision to ground the jets. NYT

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Trump made the decision following conversations with Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao, Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg and the Federal Aviation Administration he said, after ‘new information’ and ‘physical evidence’ emerged on tragic incidents involving the planes. Daily Mail

Not sure if you’ve had a chance to read the article about pilots filing complaints regarding the MAX 8 with NASA or not. That may be the scariest, stupidest part of this whole thing. NASA may have had the data to show there was a problem that needed to be corrected months ago, but the FAA didn’t do anything with it, or didn’t even know the data was there.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/13/2019 at 16:06

Can you imagine if these three got a royalty for every time this image was used?

Mercedes Streeter > ttyymmnn
03/13/2019 at 16:08

I thought the box also had some better cooling so the batteries wouldn’t try doing their best Galaxy Note 7 impression?

ttyymmnn > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 16:09

There is also an interesting paragraph in the FAA announcement that cites new evidence from the Ethiopian crash about the configuration of the airliner when it went down , though it provides no details.

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Emergency_Order.pdf

ttyymmnn > Mercedes Streeter
03/13/2019 at 16:10

You are probably right, I don’t know for sure.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > WilliamsSW
03/13/2019 at 16:19

A third MAX going down may actually be enough to put Boeing on the brink. Hopefully they come up with a proper fix, not just for this problem, but for whatever failure allowed this problem to occur.

From the outside they look too similar for it to be a coincidence. Both within minutes of take off, and having big swings in vertical speed before ultimately crashing.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/13/2019 at 18:14

On the one hand, they need a dispassionate, step-by-step investigation unfettered by prejudice and agenda to get to root cause and the correct fix.

On the other hand, something sure smells funny.

pip bip - choose Corrour > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/14/2019 at 05:23

Boeing will figure it out and they’ll be back in the air shortly

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > ttyymmnn
03/14/2019 at 12:14

That is an interesting if brief and vague statement. Something you can definitely read a lot into. Combine the comment about the configuration and the second half of that sentence stating the similarities in the satellite data and it’s getting harder to believe there isn’t a common cause for the two accidents. Especially when you combine that info with the voluntary reporting of U.S. incidents with the MAX series.

ttyymmnn > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
03/14/2019 at 12:31

In my thoroughly unprofessional yet ever-so-slightly educated opinion, I think we have a combination of faulty equipment (Lion Air), an over-agreesive flight control system, and inexperienced pilots. The fact that American pilots were complaining about it yet not crashing means that Boeing is sort of correct in that the plane itself is basically safe. But in the Ethiopian crash, you had a 29yo captain with a 200hr first officer. The bitch is that Boeing knew there were issues. I wonder if they were already working on a fix when ET302 went down.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > ttyymmnn
03/14/2019 at 14:38

I would be shocked if Boeing wasn’t working on a fix since the Lion Air crash. IIRC Boeing was offering technical assistance on that investigation. It seems like the investigating authorities would have been reporting any suspected technical issues back to Boeing even when the investigation was ongoing.