Thought Experiment: Follow Up

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 02/05/2019 at 11:01 • Filed to: None

0

34

The Needles, Custer State Park, SD

Yesterday, I posted a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! asking for recommendations for American cars for my family of five. I got tons of replies, and I thank you all for that. However, despite what I said in the post, I do not require an American car. It was more of a way to learn what is out there from American automakers, since I rarely look at American cars. But now that restriction is removed.

White Sands, NM

I typed a long !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to WilliamsSW this morning outlining where I am in the process of looking for a vehicle, taking into consideration current fleet status, age, payments, future needs, etc. I have pasted that below (with a couple of edits). So, taking all this into consideration, I am interested not only in your vehicle suggestions (foreign or domestic), but also your game plan suggestions. While I have never leased, leasing is not out of the equation. All options are on the table, including the harebrained idea of doing some sort of restoration on my beloved 2003 Odyssey.

Amarillo, TX

I fear I may have painted myself into a corner. The thought experiment isn’t entirely theoretical, since I do need to replace my Odyssey at some point, but I just rebuilt the transmission and hope to have it for at least two, hopefully three years to offset the cost of the repair. I have a sophomore who will be going to college in two years and, with twins who are three years younger, we could be going back and forth to college for seven years starting in 2021. My wife has a 2013 Civic, bought used, that we still have two years to pay on.

So, if I wait two years to replace the van in 2021, we’ll have a new/used car payment on top of college tuition (for one, and then potentially three). My wife’s Civic will be 8 years old, though it will be paid off. We like to keep our cars as long as possible, and she doesn’t drive it much (though my sophomore will be driving it eventually), so I expect that car will be around for a while, barring any catastrophes. If I wait until 2021, then any new people mover will likely be financed for 5 years and paid off before the end of seven years of college, but then I’ll be looking to ditch it for something more me-friendly, which would mean an almost immediate resumption of payments, and by then my wife’s Civic will NEED to be replaced, and we’re back to two car payments.

It almost makes sense to replace the Odyssey NOW (I would keep it for the teens to drive) when the Civic is close to being paid off. Then we’d have two years of double car payments, but not while we’re paying tuition, though the payment would continue into the college years. Then the new vehicle will be paid off during the college years, but closer to when we only have two in college and not three, and I can look to dump it in 2028 (!!) after having gotten (hopefully) lots of use out of it (remember, I’m rocking a 16-year-old Odyssey). Plus, if I wait until 2021 and want to get a two-year-old Odyssey, I’d have to get the current generation and I hate the way the current gen looks and drives. I am almost certainly going to replace my current Odyssey with another van, but I don’t want a lumbering SUV, and I honesty don’t know if a Pacifica or other American van will last nine years. Or more.

Lots of “ifs,” and I worry that I’ve painted myself into a corner. But as much as I like not having car payments, let alone two, it is starting to look like now is a better time to buy than later.

Thanks in advance. I may not be able to reply to everybody, but I will read everything.

On the Pig Trail in the Ozark National Forest

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:10

1

Acura MDX. Keep the odyssey for the boys so they have something to party in when they are teenagers and need a car.

ttyymmnn > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/05/2019 at 11:11

2

The Odyssey is not going away. I will keep it until the wheels are about to fall off, then sell it for $500 to a local painter who will probably drive it 10 more years.

TysMagic > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:15

2

Does the Ford Flex fit the plan at all?

I’m not sure what realistic budget is, but I searched cars.com, found a fairly base model 2018 used with warranty with a CPO warranty on top 11k miles for $ 20k. For $6k more you get the same era and miles with leather and toys. It’s oppo-ish , ecoboost 0-60 is just under 6 seconds, holds lots, and you contribute to my retirement account bif you finance through ford (thanksssssss)

ttyymmnn > TysMagic 02/05/2019 at 11:19

0

A number of people have suggested, and spoken highly of, the Flex. I can’t get over the fact that I think they are ugly, but I’m willing to take a look in the interest of covering all bases. I might be surprised.

ttyymmnn > TysMagic 02/05/2019 at 11:20

3

you contribute to my retirement account bif you finance through ford (thanksssssss)

Not to make you eat r amen when you are 70, but I’ll likely  be financing through my credit union.

DipodomysDeserti > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/05/2019 at 11:23

1

My gf’s mom in high school had a minivan. Boy was that fun to borrow.

OPPOsaurus WRX > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:24

3

my wife thought they were ugly until she sat in one and loved it. The E coboost is within a few tenths of a second to 60 of a WRX

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:30

2

Keeping the Odessey for the boys sounds like a good idea. They probably won’t initially be thrilled by driving it, but eventually they’ll figure out that is has lots of room for, um, activities inside.

I’d ask the question if an Odessey replacement necessarily has to be family truckster? As in, it sounds like your boys are getting to the age where summer or after school jobs/internships/actives start to become more of a thing. You may find that family vacations and the like may start to have less than the whole family along as often as not.

Could there be a scenario where the boy’s Odyssey is recalled to family truckster status when needed and you drive something that makes your heart go pitter-patter on a daily basis? If you’re not driving lots of miles, leasing can certainly make sense.

dogisbadob > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:30

0

Consider a CPO Prius V. They stopped selling it in the US last year, but you can still get one that’s not too old. And anyway, it’s a Toyota, so nothing to worry about there.

The C-Max, Transit Connect, and Tourx are still worth looking at as well. You can get a good deal on a Tourx brand new. The C-Max suffered the same fate as the Prius V above, but it a little taller and roomier than the V

Out of all of those, only the Tourx has a big sunroof that actually opens. The V, C-Max and TC all have fixed glass panels (optional, of course, but still) .

DO NOT get another V6 Honda. You will have the same transmission issues as your Ody has.

Arrivederci > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:31

0

What’s my budget?  What purpose does the car need to serve with three kids in college?  

ttyymmnn > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/05/2019 at 11:37

4

They probably won’t initially be thrilled by driving it, but eventually they’ll figure out that is has lots of room for, um, activities inside.

I told Son 1 today that he’d be driving it. He said, “Party bus!”

You may find that family vacations and the like may start to have less than the whole family along as often as not.

This was part of the conversation I had last night with my wife. Our Big Trip this year is to Disneyland, and we’re flying. Next summer will likely be a staycation, and the summer after that will be the summer before Son 1 starts college. That said, I do like the long drives in a vehicle with lots of open space inside, and Mrs. Ttyymmnn and I have some trips on our own planned for the future.

Could there be a scenario where the boy’s Odyssey is recalled to family truckster status when needed and you drive something that makes your heart go pitter-patter on a daily basis?

Not THAT is an interesting idea. Thanks.

ttyymmnn > dogisbadob 02/05/2019 at 11:38

2

DO NOT get another V6 Honda

Interesting. The transmission in my 03 lasted 190k miles before it croaked.

The TourX looks very interesting. It pushes a lot of buttons for me.

ttyymmnn > Arrivederci 02/05/2019 at 11:39

1

Budget: less is better than more. I don’t have a specific dollar amount. Outside of carrying kids to college now and then, it will be my DD. 

TysMagic > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:43

1

I actually enjoy the looks. I haven’t driven one, but everything I’ve heard is really good. Both as a driver and from the perspective of lots of toys throughout the cabin. 

facw > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:44

1

It would make a car that could fit everyone (or haul a lot of stuff to college), without being quite as oversized when you are empty nesters. If you hate the way it looks though, there’s not much you can do about that.

ttyymmnn > facw 02/05/2019 at 11:47

1

There are good reasons to look at it. I was JUST looking at shots of the interior (* Obama not bad*). Then I looked at the exterior again (ugh). It just seems so bulky. I guess I need to go look at one in person.

nermal > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:47

1

1) Tell the damn kids to get a job. Preferably one that has tuition reimbursement. Most companies that offer it give around $5k / yr.

2) Use savings to b uy GT350. It’s practically free at that point!

Alternatively, you can expand your manufacturing location requirements to include Mexico so that you can get a new Power Wagon instead of a GT350.

ttyymmnn > nermal 02/05/2019 at 11:48

1

There are no manufacturing requirements. And I like the way you think. Might be a hard sell to Mrs. Ttyymmnn, though.

facw > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:54

0

Hmm, that’s too broad of a space for me to recommend anything. If you had 4 kids, I’d say just keep using the Odyssey for family road trips, and get something smaller/more fun for everyday use, but with 5 people , that might be too much to ask for times when the kids are around but the Odyssey is not (not sure how likely that is, I’d guess it depends on where your kids go to school, and whether they bring a car, and of course on how much the Odyssey has left in it). For short trips, you always have the option of just using two cars, though for long trips, I assume one vehicle is the way to go.

For three adult (or close enough) kids, I think you are stuck looking at minivans or full-sized SUVs (plus the Flex I guess, which I’d call a wagon, though Ford does call a full-sized SUV). Pretty much everyone has an offering in the first category, while the second, you are basically looking at the Odyssey, Pacifica, Sienna, and Sedona (the others are probably too “work van” to consider).

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:55

3

I see the need for a three row vehicle in your scenario, but not necessarily more than one.

Knowing that Mom and Dad will still drive the Odyssey on a regular basis could  also encourage better treatment of it if they know someone is going notice the clunking and off-center steering wheel after seeing how much air they can catch on the entrance to the school parking lot.

ttyymmnn > facw 02/05/2019 at 11:57

0

Three kids, not five. Three years ago, we had the engine replaced in the Odyssey with a donor of similar mileage. While it was in the shop, the five of us drove to Fort Worth, about 4 hours, in the Civic. It was tight, but it was manageable. The boys (generally) travel well.

nermal > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 11:59

1

Tell the kids to feed themselves for a weekend, and book a trip with the Mrs somewhere that includes renting either a Mustang or a Truck on Turo.

Find a nice cabin in the woods thats a few hour drive away, and be romantic and shit.

That should get you enough brownie points to buy whatever you want.

ttyymmnn > nermal 02/05/2019 at 12:03

0

I don’t quite see how shitting is romantic..... But I suppose some folks are into that. 

facw > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 12:05

0

Oops, that’s what I meant. Keep in mind they will be bigger in a few years than they are now, kids do that annoying growing thing. Though with them dispersed for college it’s quite possible any road trips will have less than a full load (either because they won’t go, or because they’d arrive separately). My gut instinct is that you do don’t really need to be getting another family hauler, between still having the Odyssey, and then over time probably having fewer kids around at any given point. You might even just rent a van for family trips if you get something smaller but end up needing a hauler.

ttyymmnn > facw 02/05/2019 at 12:07

0

just rent a van

Yes, for short trips. We are renting a vehicle, not a van, for two weeks in CA this summer and it’s going to be $1000.

facw > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 12:10

1

Yeah, it’s pricey, but there are also costs (both financial and otherwise) to having a vehicle whose capabilities you only really need for a week or two a year.

ttyymmnn > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/05/2019 at 12:16

2

I shared this reply with Mrs. Ttyymmnn, and she said , “ OK, no van for the boys.”

Arrivederci > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 12:17

0

MB E63 Wagon

If less, Jaaaaaaag XF Sportbrake

If less, Kia Stinger GT

If less, VW Golf Sportwagen  

ttyymmnn > Arrivederci 02/05/2019 at 12:23

1

I’ll take Sportwagen for the win, Alex. 

Arrivederci > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 12:29

2

With a tune, it’s a fun little runabout.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 12:40

0

Ha. I’d offer that seeing how much air they can catch on the entrance to the school parking lot will happen in any vehicle they drive...

The first vehicle I got to drive as “mine” was the old family minivan in the form of a 1991 Mazda MPV. It was actually my grandmothers last vehicle by that point, but she was at the needing to stop driving stage at the same time as I started driving (she was living with us and  couldn’t live on her own at that point). It worked out for everyone, and I got use the MPV as my vehicle during my sophomore year of high-school in exchange for driving her where she needed to go in the afternoons. We managed to get her off the road (a fact I think the city of Albuquerque still owes us something for) without ever having to force the issue with her. The integra that had been in the family since new (and became the racecar) became mine to drive exclusively during my Junior year, and the title to it was my high school graduation gift.

If you’re looking to minimize room for teenage activities in vehicle, I can’t think of anything better than an old miata. Tough, bulletproof reliability, takes a crash like a champ, a hoot to drive without having any horsepower or acceleration to speak of (your Odyssey will wax an NA/NB miata off a stop light), and no real room for activities with a girlfriend. The tall transmission tunnel and small cockpit with seats that don’t recline far really limits the options.

ttyymmnn > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/05/2019 at 12:44

1

My wife is only worried about “activities” because she knows me from our courting days. My parents had a conversion van.....

someassemblyrequired > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 13:24

1

FCA vans are so cheeeeeep. It’s hard to ignore a Caravan with $8 000+ on the hood.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/755465276/overview/

Even semi-well equipped you can get one for under 20K new.

Even the Pacificas can be had well-equipped new under 30K, here’s a leftover 2018:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/732641576/overview/

nermal > ttyymmnn 02/05/2019 at 17:11

1

That’s where the brownie points come from.