"t0ast" (t0ast217)
02/01/2019 at 12:43 • Filed to: None
0
31|
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
02/01/2019 at 12:43 • Filed to: None | 0
| 31 |
With the STR NC finally !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , I’m starting to research and evaluate options for my next car. The Outback XT will be on its way out too after this next purchase, so I’m hoping to land somewhere between them.
So between a Miata... and an Outback. Way to narrow it down, amirite? Well, I’m not planning on purchasing until mid-late March, and even then, that’s not a hard deadline, so I’ve got some time on my hands. I might as well make good use of it and take a more methodical approach to try and figure out what actually works best. I’ll be taking various notes along the way and share my findings here in case anyone wants to nerd out on the details/process with me.
Without further ado, let’s set some criteria and see what all might fit.
Criteria
Price:
Must be ~40k or less, and I’m leaning strongly towards new since I’ll want to hold on to it for a while. At that limit, I’d still be able to keep the loan terms well ahead of the depreciation curve without stressing my personal budget, but the idea of spending less has its appeal as well. There’s no shortage of other long-term / non-critical house and Exocet projects that could use additional funding.
Transmission:
Must be manual. I know, I know, good automatics exist, but I just can’t quit you, Manuel.
Practicality:
It’ll only be 1-2 people in the car most of the time, but I do occasionally take road trips with friends. It doesn’t need to be Outback-sized, but it should at least be able to handle four adults with as many small-medium bags while retaining some semblance of comfort. A hatchback or wagon would be ideal to better accommodate the occasional large box, multiple tires, etc., but a sedan would also probably be fine as long as the rear head/leg space isn’t awful.
Fun:
I’d like something that is at least moderately engaging to drive, but not so much so that it’d steal the spotlight away from the Exocet or detract in any significant way from comfort.
Power:
~200 HP would be nice, and more is obviously better. This isn’t an absolute requirement, but it sure is nice when loaded up with people/stuff or for passing maneuvers on two lane roads.
Platform/Drivetrain:
We get
!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
in Missouri, so this car will have to deal with it (or worse at some extremes, given family and friends in Texas and Iowa). AWD is much preferred given our occasionally wild temperature and precipitation swings, but I’d realistically be fine with an LSD’d FWD/RWD car under most circumstances as well. Snow tires will be purchased regardless.
Comfort/Features:
Comfortable seats and ergonomics for a 6'2" body is a must. Feature-wise, I’m a lot more interested in comfort/infotainment improvements than I am in driving assists, and my bar for this isn’t exactly a high one. Honestly, I’d be content with just some heated seats and Android Auto, so anything beyond that is gravy.
Fuel Economy:
As long as I can realistically hit near 30MPG or more on the highway, I’m good. Getting more than that and/or not requiring premium would be a bonus, but gas is relatively cheap here, so it’s not too big of a deal.
Reliability/Warranty: I’m wanting to hold on to this car for at least 6-10 years, so having a good warranty and/or reasonable upkeep costs would be a significant plus.
!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!
These are the best matches I’ve been able to come up with so far and some preliminary impressions from various review sources and my own experiences/research. Some feel like much better fits than others, but I don’t want to rule anything out until I can at least see (or preferably test drive) each in person.
(side note: I feel like I’m fast becoming the poster boy for “bUt NoBoDy CrOsS-sHoPs ThOsE cArS!” counter-arguments with this list...)
Impreza Sport 5-door ($24k): This is the bare-minimum, practicality-focused pick. It’s cheap and will easily cover all of my basic needs, but 150HP in a 3100 lb car? Ouch.
Civic Si Sedan ($24k):
A great balance between fun and frugality, with likely the lowest TCO of the entire group. Loses some points for not being AWD or a hatch, however.
Golf GTI Rabbit Edition ($29k) or SE w/ DCC+Audio ($32k)
: A more favorable form factor than the Si with additional power. Supposedly there’s a more “premium” feel here, but fewer features per dollar. My confidence in VW’s long-term reliability isn’t particularly strong, but their 6 year
Veloster N w/ Performance Pack ($30k):
Two steps forward in fun, one
door
step back in practicality. Easily the best performance value of everything being considered here, especially with Hyundai’s excellent warranty taken into account. Unfortunately, that rear seat space looks borderline unusable. Combine that with the more raw 2WD performance focus and this vehicle would likely be encroaching on the Exocet’s territory without providing a whole lot of benefit elsewhere. If only we got the i30N...
Golf Alltrack SE ($30k):
A spiritual successor of sorts to my Outback XT with better on-road manners. I took one on a short test loop last year and it drove better than I thought it would, but it likely can’t hold a candle to most other options on this list. It could also use a touch more power, but the practicality and features for the price make a for a decent counter-argument.
WRX Limited ($32k):
It’s got the fun and AWD bases covered, but the rear seats felt a little too small when I gave them a quick try at last year’s auto show. Then again, that was right after stepping out of the considerably more spacious Impreza, so I’ll have to take a more objective look next time I encounter one. Also, who do I need to bribe to speed up the migration to Subaru’s global platform and give us another WRX wagon? Dead horse beatings aside, the purchase price isn’t bad for what you get, but judging by my Outback experience, Subaru’s intermittent quality issues, and their average-length warranty, I’d probably be in for some slightly above-average ownership costs.
Civic Type R ($36k):
Fun, fast, and practical. This goes one step further than the Veloster N in performance while solving its passenger/cargo area shortfalls, but still doesn’t alleviate my Exocet overlap concerns. I could deal with how it looks (hot take: it’s just okay) and the attention it might attract, but would prefer something a bit more chill. We’re also starting to get a bit close to my price limit from this point forward.
Clubman JCW ALL4 Classic ($36k):
Looking at the specs alone, it seems a nice middle ground between the GTI and Alltrack, and
!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
. Unfortunately, I’m REALLY struggling to justify $36k for something that doesn’t bring anything special to the table when it comes to features (being the base model) or performance. Then there’s also the matter of ownership cost worries akin to VW with only 2/3 of their warranty...
G70 2.0T Manual ($39k):
One of the most luxurious picks of the lot (ventilated seats? yes please!), with some respectable driving dynamics to boot. Being RWD earns it some favor over the FWD options, but not the AWD ones. The only things working against it are the seemingly cramped rear seats and the price tag in comparison to...
Golf R ($40k):
On paper, this is everything I want and then some. It’s got performance, comfort, AWD, exactly as much room as I’d need. I also find the idea of debadging one into a neat little sleeper to be very amusing. Still, there’s no getting around the fact that it’d likely be the most expensive option here to buy and own. Judging how well it might live up to its price tag will definitely require a little seat time.
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Think I missed something? Have any experience with the above? Feel free to chime in, because I’m still gathering information and open to suggestions. Most of these still need a closer look in person, so I’ll be gradually checking out what I can at dealerships, Carmax, Turo, and the upcoming KC Auto Show over the weeks to come.
KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 12:49 |
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My top choice is- Golf R, Golf R ,Golf R . O r, you know Oppo car of the year 2018, the GTI
You could also look at a low mileage CPO F30 335i xDrive
An Audi A4 came with manual+quattro combo until last year. You could look at a CPO.
Any car with less than 10K miles is as almost good as new to me, especially if you can get CPO. There might be some service loaners previous year models still around.
Whatever you do for heaven’s sake don’t buy that Impreza. The Golf Alltrack is a better option any day.
Kim Jong - Healthy
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 12:53 |
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my humble opinion given the requirements:
a pre-owned 2015/2016 v60 polestar.
enough room for your needs, awd, more than enough power at 345hp, and are slowly trickling under $40k. There are two in so cal, one with the above azur blue for $39k , and one in black for $36k
dogisbadob
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 12:58 |
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Get a Corolla hatch. It’s a Toyota, so you don’t have to worry about that, and available with a manual. The biggest problem is you can’t get a sunroof.
I own dead car brands only
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 12:59 |
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I am a big supporter of the mantra that it’s so much more fun to drive a slow car fast versus a fast car slow. You already have a sports car, it sounds like so I vote for the Impreza because it’s a great daily driver. Not sure about the long term reliability though.
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t0ast
> Kim Jong - Healthy
02/01/2019 at 12:59 |
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An appealing idea for sure, but alas, no manual :-(
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Kim Jong - Healthy
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 13:08 |
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does it really not have one? wow, I always wondered why it wasn’t loved more.
I never wanted to tempt myself with buying a car that expensive, so I guess I didn’t look into it enough.
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t0ast
> dogisbadob
02/01/2019 at 13:09 |
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The slightly tighter rear space and lack of LSD edged it out from the initial list, but I’ll still probably take a quick look at one at the next autoshow at least. Fortunately sunroofs are pretty low on my list of features I’m interested in after getting my fill of open-air motoring for the last 10+ years (and counting)
.
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t0ast
> KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
02/01/2019 at 13:11 |
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Hm, good idea
on the CPO 335i
and A4s. Will have to do some further digging on that front...
ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 13:14 |
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I have a 16 GTI SE 6MT with the Performance Package. I bought it new in January of 16. My only ongoing issue is excessive internal moisture that is only a major problem when it is well below freezing. Otherwise I just have a musty smell when I use the AC on occasion. I’ve had the dealership here look into it for three years and they can’t find anything; I’m not convinced anyone there actually knows how to work on cars. I would have to drive over an hour to find an arguably better dealer. Otherwise the car has been completely painless to own.
I former coworker had a 16/17 Golf R. That car is almost without fault. The difference in build quality between the Mexican built GTIs and the German built Rs is astonishing. The last time I drove his R he had over 50k miles on it, has driven all over the US in it, and it does not rattle, squeak, or make any intrusive noises whatsoever. He does have the aftermarket under-body chassis bracing installed, but I am not sure that would make all that much difference if the car weren’t already so well built.
He is on his second engine. But only because he had a full stage-2 tune with an aftermarket downpipe, upgraded clutch, and 93-only tune on the car. He popped the original engine on the highway in FL on an extremely warm and humid 90+ degree day. He would probably still be on the stock engine had he upgraded his intercooler with the stage-2 tune. (And he had been running that tune for over a year.) T
hat car was frighteningly fast on the full tune;
wind out through 3rd gear and you’re committing a felony.
Obviously, you should get what you decide works best. But I would not hesitate to get a Golf R if I could. I very much like my GTI. I still want a Golf R.
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t0ast
> I own dead car brands only
02/01/2019 at 13:23 |
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No stranger to that mantra here, but there is certainly
a convenience/flexibility/ease
that comes with the ability to add speed quickly
. I’m still not entirely sure where on that spectrum I want to try and land.
Tripper
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 13:28 |
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Golf R or WRX/ STi. Golf R if you’re weighing more on livability, STI if you’re weighing more on fun. I’ve owned all three here if you have any questions. My Golf R however, was an Audi S3.
I know an STi wasn’t on your list, but I’m adding it. The rest are just ok. If you’re going the full
practical
route, I like the alltrack or GTI.
The others do nothing for me personally, particularly the Infiniti.
BeaterGT
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 13:35 |
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The elusive Outback XT replacement. I’ve considered the Golf R, Alltrack, and the B8 S4 as well. Eager to see what you end up with.
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t0ast
> ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
02/01/2019 at 13:37 |
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Thanks for the detailed accounts! The prospect of Germanic foibles are a little off-putting, but the mostly-positive accounts I read about the more recent GTI/R cars and the new beefy warranty (which I’d probably not want to trade for more power
) make me a lot more willing to give them a chance. Thankfully we’ve got about 4 dealerships in a ~30 min radius here and a good indie or two should push come to shove as well.
MUSASHI66
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 13:39 |
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We have two WRXs. I had an older Civic Si. We had a bunch of different subarus with non-turbo engines.
You want room, manual, preferably AWD, and can swing $40k? Gold R is the only option.
thejustache
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 13:42 |
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I don’t really have anything to add, other than I also have an Outback XT and also subscribe to the “manual or nothing” way of thinking. With buying a house and a car for my wife last year I’m not yet to the point of replacing it, but I am dreading when I get there. I really don’t see how I can get both the same rugged go anywhere utility and the same turbo power fun in a newer vehicle without having 2 cars.
Of course it seems like you will have 2 cars, so all’s well there. Of your list I hate to say it but the ones that interest me personally all happen to be VW s, and I’m not the biggest VW fan around.
Captain of the Enterprise
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 13:47 |
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I badly want a G70 so if your comfortable in it I’d probably go that route.
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ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 14:12 |
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I’ve had my MK7 GTI longer than anyone else on here, but only by a few months. I have no idea if I have more miles on the car than the others who have one; I’m only at ~24k miles. I only have to drive about 4 miles for my commute. And we take our other car for trips now.
I had “Ed’s” replica HID lights installed and have had to replace the low-beam bulbs after a year. I occasionally get an error on the dash telling me to check one of the low-beam bulbs when it gets very cold. That warning is gone the next day.
If you get a GTI with their ‘pano-roof’ it will squeak. Keeping the rubber clean and lubed with Gummi Pflege works wonders.
My criticisms of my car are that the chassis isn’t as lively as I would appreciate. My previous DD was an SVT Focus, which has a critically acclaimed chassis, praised for how lithe and lively it handled. The GTI feels heavier because it is, and while the upper limits might be higher, at legal and city-safe speeds it just doesn’t reward being driven hard.
The stock 6MT shifter is (personally) infuriating. The golf-ball-esq knob is not actually directly connected to the shift lever, and as such will flex a bit when hard shifting gears. I replaced it with a COBB Tuning shift knob that uses set-screws to attached directly to the un-threaded shift level in the GTI (Thanks, VW.). It makes a huge difference when shifting. I also bought some seat fabric and had a local upholstery shop make a custom shift boot for me in the matching plaid cloth seat fabric I have on my seats. (The SE for 16 should have black leather seats. I made the dealer swap them for the base S-trim seats at purchase. Long story. I’ve posted it around here before.)
And during the winter I would prefer to have better feeling shifter bushings. This is easily remedied, I just haven’t gotten to it yet.
I am sure that is far more than you wanted to read about my GTI. Sorry for the wall O’text.
Good luck with you hunt.
Gidges
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 14:35 |
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Even though I’m a big Subaru fan, they don’t make them as good as they used to be anymore. Out of this list I’d say take the Q70. Good looks, probably lighter then AWD. Having a luxurious car is a high recommendation for a daily driver. I switched from a ‘99 Honda Accord (euro model) to a ‘03 BMW 320d Touring, and the difference is immense. The Bimmer is a bit less fun then the Honda (it was bright red and I added some personal touches to it) but it’s so much more comfortable for daily driving, especially since I got a fairly heavy job a s car mechanic.
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t0ast
> thejustache
02/01/2019 at 14:36 |
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Yeah, it’s kind of a weird place to be in. If you asked me 2 or more years ago if I’d be considering a German brand for my next car, I’d have said no, and yet here we are with VW picking up a lot of the manual enthusiast slack...
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t0ast
> Tripper
02/01/2019 at 14:49 |
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Fair point on the STi. My main concerns about it next to the WRX are mostly daily usability related, though there’s a non-zero chance it could win me over on account of driving dynamics (and more robust drivetrain components). My questions would mostly be along the lines of driving impressions vs. a FA-engined
WRX (if you’ve had a chance to compare), fuel economy (assuming some modicum of restraint in driving behavior), ride quality, and engine/powerband behavior under more mundane circumstances.
Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 14:55 |
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All fairly good choices. Personally, I love the WRX as an all a rounder.
I think it’d be worth pricing out the clubman all4 used with a warranty against new. Minis depreciate something fierce.
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t0ast
> Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle
02/01/2019 at 15:09 |
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Yeah, that Clubman will likely get roped into my CPO searches as well. If I could find a lower-mileage mid/top trim example
for low 30s
, that’d certainly
make it a lot more appealing of an option.
nermal
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 15:21 |
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You can still find the diesel / manual version of these, at the top of your price range. Act now because they will be gone soon.
Pros:
Powahhhhhhhhhhh
Roomy
Will be worth more in 10 yrs than it costs new
Cons:
Can’t park anywhere without running shit over
Fuel economy
Herds of babes showing up from out of nowhere that want to fondle you
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Tripper
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 15:25 |
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I have had the chance to compare. Between mine and those of my close friends I’ve driven them all. 2004-2016 both WRXs and STis. Bone stock and modded to the moon .
In an STi during non-fun situations you’re rowing though the gears very quickly t o achieve decent fuel econ (I’d say low mid 20mpg ) . The ride is rough, but completely worth it in my eyes. Wile good gas mileage is achievable , its a lot easier to get terrible mileage. I was young when I owned mine, but there were plenty of tanks where I got 12-14mpg. You’ll do a lot better with fuel econ in the Golf-R. I did a lot of spirited driving in the S3 and stayed around 25mpg.
Honestly after owning them all. I’d say the STi is the most fun by a long shot, but the golf R is a much “nicer” car and you can get better mileage. As far as the WRX goes, they’re great and really fun, but I think I’d rather be in a GTI at that price point. The WRX and GTI are about equal on fun (slight advantage to the Subaru), but the VW again is a much nicer car.
If I had to buy one today and have it be my only car I’d have an STi limited (with the small spoiler). If I was adding a car to my current fleet as a DD I’d have the alltrack, haha.
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t0ast
> ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
02/01/2019 at 15:27 |
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No worries on the wall o’ text especially after making it through mine
. Any info is good info. I’ve read about similar issues with the sunroof, which is what prompted me towards the Rabbit Edition in the first place
... though it’d
come
at the cost of not having a
DCC option available
. Speaking of which, how are you liking the DCC on yours?
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t0ast
> Tripper
02/01/2019 at 15:31 |
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All good to know. Thanks!
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ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 15:37 |
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The SE did not come with DCC in 16, only the Autobahn trim.
On the R it is fantastic. The normal mode is more comfortable than my GTI. Race/Sport is firm without being harsh. Comfort is super soft. It is the one upgrade I wish I could add.
412GTI
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 17:01 |
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Good news is you have a decent amount of great options within that price range !
I have 17 GTI Sport, which is basically the same thing as the Rabbit Edition (PP, Keyless Start, No sunroof, Cloth, etc) and love it. I went DSG :( but have driven quite a few 6mt ones. They definitely have a light feel to it, but then again most manuals on your list will as well. I’m only at 15k miles, but no issues, no rattling or anything, knock on plaid.
However as much as I recommend the GTI, if the R is in your budget, go for it. Like others mentioned, German build quality is great, AWD, very comfortable with DCC and it should retain it’s value better than the rest of your list, Type-R aside. I get jealous when I ride/drive my friends 18R.
Besides that, +1 for the Type R, because it’s mad and I love it. Way better than the stupid Focus RS! Anyways, sorry for me scatter brain, hope that helps.
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Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle
> t0ast
02/01/2019 at 18:19 |
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Not CPO but barely used for $26k; and actually the car that I thought of when I made my comment(I was searching more for older ones but was surprised at how cheap this was):
So I would think $30k CPO with reasonable miles should be realistic.
Arrivederci
> t0ast
02/08/2019 at 11:51 |
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Nailed it with the Golf R. It checks every box you have and you admit it’s basically perfect. It’s kismet. Additionally, 2018+ models come with a 6yr/72k bumper to bumper warranty, which means it’ll be under warranty for the majority of your planned 6-10yr ownership. Resale is also extremely high if for some reason you decide you don’t like it.
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t0ast
> Arrivederci
02/08/2019 at 13:40 |
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One part it being the best
match, one part other manufacturers *just* missing the mark for what I’m after. Without a WRX wagon, Civic Si hatch, or i30N present to make a stronger argument on the “spend less” front, it certainly feels like the ringer of the group.