Damn the Veloster N can be had for cheap!

"slipperysallylikespenguins" (slipperysally) 12/03/2019 at 16:07 • Filed to: None

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I’ve had my eye on the Veloster N ever since it was first announced and my interest was reignited after reading the Road & Track Performance Car of the Year review, which it won. I first payed attention to Hyundai N when they hired Albert Biermann and Thomas Schemera who were top men at BMW M in its best years. With no brand history to constrain them they can do whatever the hell they want.

They retail at $27400 or $29500 with the performance package, which is the only option. A 6-speed manual is your only choice for transmission too. Its preferred in its review over the Golf R and Civic R, way more expensive and pedigreed hatches.

  !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

You can find them for 4-5k off sticker anywhere in the country right now with a few near 10k off. All with Hyundai’s long warranty.

I’ve never had much interest in FWD or turbos, but this is awfully tempting. My recent Renault Clio rental has gotten me reconsidering fwd and this is supposed to be way better than that.

This is a great interview about the future direction of Hyundai/Kia performance:

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I’m very excited for the future of N and if my job goes well in 2020 I’ll be looking at one of these. At least until this comes out:

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:14

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That super-cheap one’s not that far from me...

Very tempting, but we’re more likely to be buying a Telluride for Mrs. addiction first.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:15

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If that mid engined thing goes into production, I will break my rule of never buying new

slipperysallylikespenguins > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/03/2019 at 16:17

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The Telluride looks really good, I’ve seen a few driving around.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:23

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Getting all kinds of love from industry journalists, too.

Usually don’t buy a first year car, but may have to make an exception.

3point8isgreat > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:26

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Id be surprised if many were actually selling at that price. At least one mentioned it included H yundai E mployee Michigan resident pricing.

I just bought one and didn’t qualify for most of the discounts. Still got it for a hundred or so above dealer invoice and right about where KBB said to expect . Seems the market here moves them quick though, so you probably co uld have better luck elsewhere.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:26

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Imagine how well it would do with all those positive attributes, if it weren’t ugly and wrong-wheel-drive. (yes, yes, I have heard all the retorts about FWD performance before... all mitigated by the fact that Physics exists.)

I want to like the asymmetrical door configuration, but I liked it on Pininfarina Cambiano much more... a more classical GT coupe form.  

3point8isgreat > 3point8isgreat 12/03/2019 at 16:28

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Also just saw a lot of those didn't have the performance pack. Which given how good of a deal it is, I can see demand dropping off for ones without it.

slipperysallylikespenguins > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 12/03/2019 at 16:29

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I have that same rule, and would consider breaking it for a Veloster N. Would break it for sure on the mid engine car, but that would probably be so hyped up that dealers would “adjust” the pricing.

slipperysallylikespenguins > 3point8isgreat 12/03/2019 at 16:34

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Yeah, I’m just glad to see they are selling below MSRP and dealers aren’t adjusting the price up. They seem to be flying under the radar. I don’t see the point of buying one without the performance pack, it seems essential for the car.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:35

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Buy the N, there is a stock one at my local autocross and its ridiculously fast!

Michael Cohen > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:37

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Savage Geese thought it was just ok. Motortrend’s Johnny and Jethro weren’t moved.

Road & Track compared it favorably to the Fiesta ST and a John Copper Works. Matt Farah who worked on  Car of Year has a owned a first gen Mini and FiST said to me on Twitter that the N was better than both. 

slipperysallylikespenguins > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/03/2019 at 16:39

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I’ve always disliked front wheel drive but I’m starting to come around. They work great at real world speeds. I’m more displeased with the turbo 4. Its supposed to be pretty meh.

It isn’t very pretty but better looking than most of it’s competition.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 16:40

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Seems like I’d have to give this serious consideration if I was forced to replace my GTI for some reason. I’d also have to take another look at the Civic Si, since that car has done rather well at autocross, although I don’t much like the style.

https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/28844/2019-hyundai-veloster-n-vs-2019-vw-golf-gti-comparison-review-two-hot-hatches-blitz-the-track

slipperysallylikespenguins > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 12/03/2019 at 16:52

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I think it might be hard to step down to a Hyundai if you are used to a GTI. The interior and options are no contest better in the VW. If you want cheap fun the N is awesome though. The SI at least looks a lot better than the Civic R.

slipperysallylikespenguins > Michael Cohen 12/03/2019 at 16:53

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I had never heard of Savage Geese until now, but they do a pretty solid review. 

Michael Cohen > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 17:14

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Best video car reviewer imho . He tends be tell-it-like-it-is. A lot reviewers hype the product. Some of the commenters think Goose is overly negative. I don’t. 

CobraJoe > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/03/2019 at 17:17

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I’m not a fan of FWD, but I’d rather have FWD than AWD.

AWD is boring on dry streets at normal speeds.  FWD can at least add some drama scrabbling for traction.  

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 12/03/2019 at 17:35

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Yeah, Honda has HS, GS, and DS wrapped up with various  s CIVICS

LJ909 > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 17:53

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It must be a regional thing. Here in SoCal there are a handful that have discounts. Most dealers here stock them for a hair over $30k. I’ m sure that can be talked down though. Hopefully. They are tempting. But I don’ t know if I can justify another small hatchback again.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 17:56

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Some FWD can... but most aren’t engineered for performance, and understeer severely, and torque-steer with any considerable amount of power. Expecting the front tires to be narrow enough to turn through the steering range, while also being able to put power down, and to brake under almost all the mass loading of the car, is too much to ask most tires for.

Weight balance, loading rear tires on acceleration, and not over-loading front tires on braking... just suits rear wheel drive better for any performance consideration, even at legal speeds.

Try driving a Miata and a Lotus Elan or Mercury Capri back to back. (I have), or have a turbo FWD car (like say a LeBaron GTC 2.2VNT) try to rip your arms off your torso, and slap you across the face with them. Granted those are older... and some engineering progress has been made, but, again... physics.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > CobraJoe 12/03/2019 at 18:04

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Ok... drama.

As a former 2x Subaru, and current Jeep owner... I’d just as soon avoid the drama of my spouse freaking the hell out in inclement weather when a FWD car pushes and understeers into a ditch... rather than an AWD car clawing it’s way home as safe as possible.

And if you think AWD is boring in the dry... you don’t seem like you’ve driven one with 300 horsepower and manual gearbox.

I guess I have never thought of control as boring, and inferior traction and handling as dramatic.

I have had RWD cars that couldn’t drive straight in anything resembling snow.

I have had FWD cars that were addicted to understeer like a drug.

I have had AWD cars that could go anywhere, any time, in any survivable weather conditions with prudent caution and a set of snow tires. And offered both control in almost any situation, but still a thrill when prodded.

I don’t need AWD in every car I own, but I doubt I will be without even one AWD vehicle.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 18:19

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I’m surprised the US market N has a ‘performance pack.’

The Canadian one comes with no optional packages and with the 275hp, e-diff and trick exhaust. 19 inch wheels are nice, too, I suppose.

Considering the MSRP of 29.5k USD works out to over 39k CAD, Canadians are getting a deal off the bat since our MSRP for the only trim is a bit under 35k CAD, or 26k USD.

I still prefer the i30N for its more traditional hatchback look, but I don’t hate the Veloster N at all.

slipperysallylikespenguins > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/03/2019 at 18:27

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The Miata and Elan(old) are legendary rwd handlers whereas the Capri and Lebaron are legendary turds. Try driving a Fulvia, original Mini, or Integra Type R vs a Miata or Elan and you wouldn’t be so dissapointed. They would probably be a little better as RWD, but do very well without it.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 18:55

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If only Hyundai had a great looking 4 door hatch to sell the same performance package in. (Heavy sarcasm)

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 19:26

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By Elan, I meant the 90s-era Elan, same as the 90s era Miata and Capri.

They still try to defy physics by unloading the driven tires during acceleration. They still overload the steering tires on braking by having such a significant front weight bias.

They still have asymmetrical axles, short axle joint angles that limit suspension travel and articulation, and incur torque bias between a short, torsionally stiff axle, and a long or multi-jointed less stiff axle that creates torque steer that acts on the already steerable geometry.

They still try to send all power, braking and steering forces through only two tires, while the rear tires merely hold the back of the car off the pavement. the rear tires don’t contribute when loaded under acceleration weight transfer, and can’t contribute much braking due to being almost entirely unloaded under deceleration weight transfer forward.

Because some cars can manage to be fun despite the disadvantages in performance, in favor of the packaging advantages for manufacturing, doesn’t mean that the performance disadvantages are not disadvantages.

CobraJoe > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/03/2019 at 19:44

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AWD does have its purpose, my wife’s car will probably always have it now. But I hate it in a fun car.

And I have owned a near 300hp manual AWD car, an 05 LGT with some mods and a tune. That’s how I know that I hate it. It’s fun on snow or gravel, but those aren’t usually found on my daily commute. The rest of the time, it just has too much grip to have fun, especially in traffic.

No, give me the RWD car that cant drive straight in the winter. I’ve done that before too, and I have yet to find a car as fun to drive every day as that Foxbody.

The only thing I haven’t owned is an overpowered FWD car. The Protege5 I had for a while was far below the N’s power level, and it did understeer too much, but it was also a ton of fun at legal speeds, mostly because it was lighter than a comparable AWD or RWD car.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > CobraJoe 12/03/2019 at 20:38

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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot...

I too was referring to my previous Cobb Stage 2 tuned, Bilstein suspended modified 2005 Legacy GT Limited 5-speed. I actually thought it was pretty fun most of the time, except for replacing beaten-to-death suspension components, and cruising at 3100rpms.

My old SVX was actually smoother and more enjoyable to drive long distances.

M y old Probe GT v6 was my own personal foray into FWD, but I have driven others. Fine most of the time, but slid like crazy and understeered in anything slick. Wide performance tire sizes helped in the dry, but low traction pressure in the wet or slick just slid otherwise.  

I have also owned a Fox mustang, although it wasn’t much to write home about... as it was a 4-cylinder AOD. all the fun of being out of control, without any of that pesky horsepower.

Jetstreamer > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 20:44

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Everyone in North America, just keep writing letters to Hyundai saying you would buy their car if it had been the i30/Elantra N instead of that weird asymmetric ugly thing of a Veloster ;).

Maybe they’ll listen one day.

Anyway, it is a damn fine hot hatch. Not the fastest, not the most powerful, but just a blast to drive and guaranteed to put a smile on your face. 

Dusty Ventures > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/03/2019 at 21:33

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Light, responsive, tossable fwd cars and participating in r ally have really changed my view on the platform. Nothing like going around a dry tarmac stage in a fwd  with the back end hanging out on every corner, and that's without using the handbrake

Maxima Speed > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 22:10

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oppos resident Lexus guy and and another person (not on opportunity yet) brought a press car and a brand new car respectively to the Oppositelock dragon meet and loved them. The sound is Amazing! You can hear them above everything else crackling popping and growling through the corners. An auditory delight.

CobraJoe > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/03/2019 at 23:33

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Between the turbo lag (which made me realize that I hate waiting for power and made it annoyingly difficult to keep up with mildly quick traffic), and the lack of fun on dry streets (at least at reasonable speeds). ... basically I found out that I’m not really a fan of the whole “Rally subaru” setup. At least not for my daily drive.

I would like to try an SVX sometime though, the NA H6 and grand touring feeling seems like a better match for AWD for me.

Granted, FWD will always be annoying in limited traction situations, but in my area, snowy or icy roads are always far less common than dry roads.  On dry roads, the lighter weight (if the chassis takes advantage of it) really helps make it fun.  

Funny thing, my first car was also a 4cyl Foxbody, but it was a ‘79 with a whopping 88hp and an annoyingly high geared 4 speed . It was also the first non-farm- truck I have ever drove with a manual, and that was more than enough to get me hooked.

Jond22 > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/03/2019 at 23:35

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Hhahahahaha, hard to step down from the Golf, that's funny, step down, wtf!

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > CobraJoe 12/04/2019 at 00:11

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Yeah, the turbo lag is something. At best it was a fun burst of speed, but most of the rest of the time... kind of a hurdle to overcome . I hear and hope that the direct injection turbo engines with higher static compression ratios are better with the lag issue, and run better when off-boost.

My SVX was a bit of a rescue, but it was obviously still well screwed together, and so buttery smooth. Flat-6 is really a peach of an engine. I wish they had used that, and the EZ-series engine more... and I wish Honda would do some interesting things with their flat-6 motorcycle engine, too.

I would love a really great example of an SVX with a 6-speed Spec.B gearbox conversion... but truthfully, a 996 Porsche Carrera 4 or 4S is probably the better choice, not only for AWD flat-6 performance, but for support. SVX parts were rare when I had to sell mine several years ago, and have likely only gotten rarer.

Porsche will probably never be unsupportable, just a matter of money, and so many more units produced. The way a few pristine SVXs and many 996s are going on BAT, they are not that far apart on price. And frankly, as a weekend, non-daily, no winter driving, fun car, a RWD Carrera is probably a very good choice.

I grew up in the back seat of a 79 Fox Capri 4-cylinder. I don’t quite remember if it was a manual or automatic, but it was likely a stick. My 88 Mustang was unfortunately an auto, though.

2010ngojo > Michael Cohen 12/04/2019 at 08:17

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Well the vid was weird. He said a lot of good things about. And some not as good things about. But overall just okay? I was under the impression that it is great, but not something fantastic or that it will knock your socks off. For the price, maybe. 

2010ngojo > gin-san - shitpost specialist 12/04/2019 at 08:27

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Not only that, you get heated seats and steering wheel STANDARD. Us Americans don’t even have the option. I live near the north, where it does get cold and sometimes snow during winter . The rest of the year would be a great time to drive one of these things. Kinda ridiculous to ignore that demographic. Contacted corporate or whatever, so let’s see if they at least give the option next model year.

Textured Soy Protein > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/04/2019 at 14:32

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I like the performance aspects of the Veloster N but I dislike the form factor vs. a regular 5-door hat ch, and lack of sunroof. It’s not such a high performance car that it can’t at least have a sunroof as an option, especially when the lower Veloster trims offer a sunroof. Same exact criticism I have with the Golf R. If you can have a sunroof on a GTI or S3, you should be able to get one on the Golf R.

slipperysallylikespenguins > Textured Soy Protein 12/04/2019 at 14:54

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I would really prefer it as a more compact 3 door hatch or a full 5 door hatch, the setup they have is really strange. The whole idea for the N is affordable performance, that’s why they left out all the other options. You can’t get it with a sunroof, leather seats, or any of the collision avoidance/lane assist/braking assist tech.

You can get a Veloster Turbo with a little less HP but all the luxury items.

People are often asking for bare bones performance cars, Hyundai delivered.

The VW R should definitely come with a sunroof though.

Textured Soy Protein > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/04/2019 at 15:50

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The Veloster Turbo doesn’t come close to matching the performance of the N, especially with the Performance Package.

I don’t need all the luxury items, I just like a sunroof, which is standard on the Veloster 2.0 Premium, Turbo, and Turbo Ultimate. Same with heated seats, which in addition to being standard on those trims are also standard on the Canada-spec N, but not available on the N in the US.

While I don’t love the Veloster form factor, I could live with it to get the N goodies, if the N at least offered an optional package to bring the equipment level in line with the regular Turbo trim, not even the Turbo Ultimate.

But the lower Veloster trims don’t interest me because that 1.6T drivetrain and multilink rear suspension is available in several other more practical body shapes from Hyundai & Kia including the Elantra Sport, Elantra GT N-Line, and Forte GT.

Each of those cars can be fairly loaded up with options like nicer stereo, sunroof, safety nannies, active cruise, sunroof, power driver’s seat, heated/vented seats, wireless phone charger, etc. Their fully loaded prices are:

Forte GT2 - $25,470
Elantra Sport - $26,915 (but it lacks some of the options like power/vented seats)
Veloster Turbo Ultimate - $29,205
Elantra GT N-Line - $29,515

So...if I wanted all the options and was ok with the 1.6T setup, that Forte GT2 is the move, but I’d totally go for the Veloster N PP if it at least had that sunroof and heated seats.

TwoWheelsAmazing > Michael Cohen 12/05/2019 at 10:48

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Savage is such a breath of fresh air for Youtube car reveiwers. How he has  so few subscribers is criminal.