I went to a local car show tonight and it was awesome until I died from secondhand smoke

"WilliamsSW" (williamssw) 08/23/2018 at 21:37 • Filed to: Old car guys

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I love old cars, and want to get one, but will that doom me to hanging out with old dudes smoking cigars and Swisher Sweets?

500 Internet points to anyone who can ID all 3 cars above. More later. There was a 1st Gen Probe GT there too which I failed to get a picture of.

fhrblig > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 21:52

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If you are the one smoking the cigar, the second hand smoke won't bother you as much.

daender > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 21:52

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First one is a first-gen (probably ‘70-’71) Monte Carlo SS with the 454 engine.  I can’t remember what year of Impala SS the second one is.  The last one I’m stumped on.

WilliamsSW > fhrblig 08/23/2018 at 22:03

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Very true. I’ve smoked a few in my younger days, but I think I’m getting spoiled by the indoor smoking ban here in Illinois. 

WilliamsSW > daender 08/23/2018 at 22:07

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Correct on the first one - it was a ‘ 70, but I don’t think the picture shows enough to tell whether it’s a 70 or 71.

The first year Impala SS ( 1961) used unique badges which I absolutely love. The car was a 348 3x2 4 speed convertible. Gorgeous. 

The 3rd one is a rare Mopar.

fintail > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:09

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Second car - 61 Impala SS  

T hird car -~1960-61 ish Chrysler, maybe a 300

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:12

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... wow, my fellow Oppos are bad at this.

1970 Monte Carlo SS 454

1961 Impala SS, likely convertible

... the last one however is vexing me slightly. Gimme a few minutes.

lone_liberal > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:14

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Nah, you can hang with old guy like me.  Not that that’s an improvement but at least there’s good beer and no smoke.

WilliamsSW > fintail 08/23/2018 at 22:16

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Nailed it! Chrysler 3 00F - 1960. I’m an idiot because I spent 5 minutes drooling over the cross ram intake manifolds but didn’t take a picture of them.

WilliamsSW > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 08/23/2018 at 22:18

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Fintail got the last one.

I gotta ask though - how did you figure that the 61 was a ragtop?

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 08/23/2018 at 22:19

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Well shit. I can’t find an exact match. I’m going with mid-50's Ford based on the tricolor steering wheel, square clock, and big hump cluster.

WilliamsSW > lone_liberal 08/23/2018 at 22:20

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That works for me. The guys there were all very nice, but I could live without the smoke, and they’re old enough to be my dad ( and I’m 50 myself...)

Beer was mostly cheap stuff too, but decent beer available at least. 

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:23

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Worth the risk for cars like those. 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:23

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BECAUSE I AM MAGIC. (And ashame. How’d I fuck up a 300?! Oh right. Because I hate the 300's because I had to fix the 300M. FUCK NOSTALGIA.)

Seriously though, it was an educated guess based on the time of year and the general weather conditions. I figured I had a 70/30 shot of it being a convertible, since the hardtop guys would more likely be at the drag strip on a Thursday night.

WilliamsSW > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 08/23/2018 at 22:27

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1960 Chrysler 3 00F. Here’s another if you’re bored - year and specific model :

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:29

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Pfft, 413 Wedge? Call me when somebody shows up with a 318 Poly. ;)

Nothing > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:30

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The Super Cruise out here (Golden, CO) is pretty smoke free and full of old and younger dudes. Lots of cool cars, too. I also find myself a tweener  at car shows, I’m either 20 years younger, or 30 years older. Guess I’m on the older side of the tweener.

WilliamsSW > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 08/23/2018 at 22:32

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Someone built that?

Obligatory- there were some really cool cars there. Sorry no engine shot of the 273 4 speed first gen Barracuda.

lone_liberal > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:32

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Judging from the shows I’ve been to recently the Boomers won’t be doing it very much longer. They ain’t moving around so good. At least that means less Beach Boys and more Iron Maiden.

WilliamsSW > lone_liberal 08/23/2018 at 22:35

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Same here. And there were a LOT of malaise cars there too. Not looking forward to car shows dominated by that crap. 

ranwhenparked > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:38

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You know who else banned smoking indoors?

Literally Hitler.

Just saying

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:52

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Are you kidding? That tunnel ram 318 was a Hemi killer. The Poly is a scary motor.

Weird thing though, it’s only genuinely interesting Mopars that interest me any more. Novelties and the like. I guess when you actually touch a Hemi ‘Cuda Convertible that’s down to what’s left of the rotted frame, parked 50 feet from a bunch of numbers matching T/A’s, AARs, 440-6's, and X heads, they stop being interesting.

And trust me. Working on ‘em? Anything that wasn’t from AMC or a Neon made after 1993 should just be set on fire to spare the rest of the world.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > WilliamsSW 08/23/2018 at 22:56

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oh boy oh boy! impala!

i love those

also i cant stand cigars..... regular smoke is one thing....cigars are worse

(but i would say that as i have a regular smokes addiction to feed)

WilliamsSW > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 08/23/2018 at 23:29

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I never realized you could build one of those - and tbh I forgot there were 2 different Chrysler 318s.

There was some pretty cool stuff for a random suburban car show - including a winged car.

I’m not a big fan of their more recent stuff personally, but like more or less anything from the 50s and 60s. 

WilliamsSW > Nothing 08/23/2018 at 23:52

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Yeah, I’m kind of a tweener, too - there were a few guys in their 20s/30s (I saw at least 3 show cars with infant car seats in the back), and the rest were 70+.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 08/23/2018 at 23:53

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There was some ridiculously cool cars there, for just being a neighborhood show that happens every Thursday night all summer long.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 08/24/2018 at 09:46

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I need to see about moving there. Or at least getting a summer home. 

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 08/24/2018 at 10:01

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Summers here are recommended. Winters not so much. 

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 08/24/2018 at 10:09

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That’s not something I’d easily forget. 

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 08/24/2018 at 10:14

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Yeah, I know you’re familiar with it but I wasn’t sure how long it’s been.

I hope to someday live in a place where I can forget what winter is like...

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 08/24/2018 at 10:59

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Would 18 years wipe your memory of something so traumatic?

fintail > WilliamsSW 08/24/2018 at 11:15

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They are lovely cars, and subtle for Exner.

Giveaway was the instrument cluster shape, which started ~1960 and made it to around 1966. A glance of the fin behind the door sealed the year.

The 61s are also cool with the fun headlights :

WilliamsSW > fintail 08/24/2018 at 11:46

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The 300G is one of my favorite cars ever. The F is close behind, and really a bit cleaner, but I love those canted headlights.

One thing that surprised me is how much the front bumper stuck out the sides of the car. It’s as if it was 6 inches too long. 

fintail > WilliamsSW 08/24/2018 at 13:50

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You can see it pretty well from this angle:

Exner was either stunningly wacky, or amazingly on-point. But all of his products are memorable.

I assume you like 58-60 Lincolns, too.

WilliamsSW > fintail 08/24/2018 at 14:00

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Exner was either stunningly wacky, or amazingly on-point. But all of his products are memorable.

Both, depending on the car. :) But I don’t blame him for the ‘62 debacle.

Regarding the bumper width, I was referring to the F, not the G - it’s very visible in this photo :

Yes, I like the 58-60 Lincolns, too - but I like the 300G and the ‘63-’66 big Pontiacs (as well as the ‘65-’67 Tempest/LeMans/GTO) better.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 08/24/2018 at 14:11

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I’m not sure really - but I’d like to move somewhere warmer for the next 18 years and find out.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 08/24/2018 at 14:33

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Summers may be scorching hot, but my wife says, “you don’t have to shovel the sun.”

Smart cookie, that one.

fintail > WilliamsSW 08/24/2018 at 21:45

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I can even deal with the 62s, especially as coupes, convertibles, and even wagons. For the bumper, the canted headlights seem to make the width less apparent , as it follows the line. On that 60, you can really see it.

I like cars of the metamorphosis period between 50s and 60s design, some are kind of offbeat.  I have a thing for full sized 60 Fords, especially high trim cars.

WilliamsSW > fintail 08/25/2018 at 00:04

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1958-62 was a weird period in American car design. Between the recession, the demise of the tailfin, changing consumer tastes, and the Big 3 chasing each other and the Europeans, there were some disasters, and a few beautiful cars, too.

Even in the days of ‘planned obsolescence’, a style would usually last a few years before being re-designed, but that period has a few cars that seem to be one year wonders - and the ‘60 Ford might be the poster child (GM’s ‘58 lineup would be the runner-up).

The photo dump I posted this afternoon has a few cars from that era (check out the ‘59 Bonneville convertible), but there were 2 Ford Sunliners there, a ‘58 and a ‘60, plus a ‘58 Buick, and a ‘59 El Camino. Pretty good showing for an era that doesn’t get much love.

I’m not a fan of the ‘62 Mopars, or the ‘60 Ford, but I can appreciate them - they’re all interesting to me.

fintail > WilliamsSW 08/25/2018 at 10:33

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I suspect they used a lot of their saved profits from prior years on those yearly updates - annual body panel retooling can’t be cheap.  Designers were throwing everything they knew into how to keep a car current, before they figured out that less can be more.  I think many cars of that era were prolific rusters, and they looked awfully passe by the late 60s, so for some models, survival rates are low.

If you like that era, you probably know to watch “It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World”, released in 1963 and filmed in the last half of 1962, it isn’t just an epic comedy of unrepeatable star-studded proportions, it is like an early 60s car show. There is ample time given to 1962 Mopars, along with some other cars, even a fintail in a background shot.

I might have mentioned it before, back in the 90s, my dad, who was into old Fords, had a 60 Ford - a Country Sedan (midrange wagon). I did some of my practice driving in it, and it was a very cool car. He sold it on a whim, and we never saw it again. I’ve never seen an identical car, and I suspect it was either exported, or somehow written off and parted out.

WilliamsSW > fintail 08/25/2018 at 16:35

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I think many cars of that era were prolific rusters, and they looked awfully passe by the late 60s, so for some models, survival rates are low.

Very true - this is when Detroit started introducing unibodies, and those were notorious rusters across the Big 3, plus those GM cars that used the X-frame weren’t that much better- add in the lack of desirability, and not that many of those cars survived.

That said, I think that GM and Ford had it all figured out by 1961, style-wise, but Chrysler was lost at sea for a few years after that. I absolutely love the ‘61 Chevy/Olds/Pontiac/Buick and Ford , personally.

If you like that era, you probably know to watch “It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World”

Ha- b een many years, but when I was a kid, I LOVED that movie - in large part for the cars, but also the silly comedy, too. A lot of cool cars in that movie.

A ‘60 Country Sedan in the 1990's? That’s pretty wild - that was a pretty old and rare car by then. I owned a ‘64 Olds Dynamic 88 in the early 90s, and that was a rare (and dirt cheap - $1600 for a rust free 2 door hardtop with an *immaculate* interior in 1990) car back then. By then, ‘60 Fords had mostly disappeared from the roads - though you’d still see ‘63++ cars .

fintail > WilliamsSW 08/25/2018 at 20:12

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I think deterioration and the first fuel crisis did most of them in. Too big, sometimes iffy durability, and no mileage. They were also heavy, so good scrap value. You are right, GM and Ford had kind of a “Corporate Look” by 61 or so, but Chrysler went back and forth until the 1965 lineup, which were pretty good cars as far as I know. My grandpa bought a 65 Chrysler new, and I have been told it was a strong and reliable car. He traded it on a fuselage model, which wasn’t as solid. I like the curved A-pillar on 61-62 GM cars. Someone locally, who I think works at Microsoft, has an immaculate 62 Olds 98 6 window - now and then I see it pulling out of the parking garage. It has so much more presence than yet another cloned Tesla.

The 90s were a great time for old cars in the PNW - 60s material was still everywhere, and cheap. The 60 Ford was under $500! It didn’t run, but just needed a coil, and it fired right up. My dad then commuted in it for a year - he was never very fond of modern cars, and was more comfortable in something he could tinker with, it was relaxation for him. It was actually pretty reliable for what it was, and even then got tons of attention. It sold the first day he put it on the market. He also bought a very clean low mileage 68 Fairlane for $600, that one he liked even more, as it had manual everything. Eventually, he was getting older, and I think the old cars were too much work, so he gave in and bought a new expensive Town and Country, which he enjoyed, and had for about a decade, when he passed away. Lots of good car memories though, because of him, I am into it. The first car I drove regularly was a 66 Galaxie 2 door HT, a clean driver quality car he picked up for a grand back then. I also remember looking at a 63 Impala SS, 327/4 speed, that I wanted - but he said was overpriced - $4500! Another one in my mind was a clean 62 Galaxie XL, black on red, $2K. As that was before I started driving, he didn’t make a move. As rust is slow here, there was an ample supply, and I don’t think the buyers from out of the area had arrived yet.

There’s still 60s material around here, but it isn’t as cheap, and I think a lot of the really good stuff has been snapped up and often relocated.  Someone across the street from me was a car hoarder, and had a number of odd things, including a 60 Fairlane 2 door, in an odd purple that I think was a factory color.  They moved a few years ago, and had to transport maybe 6-8 cars.

WilliamsSW > fintail 08/26/2018 at 00:18

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I’ve always lived in the rust belt (Chicago mostly), so they disappeared here a bit earlier. Besides all the factors that you mention, parts got scarce quickly for a lot of them, with some oddball setups that didn’t last very long (early FI setups, Turboglide transmissions and the like).

And yeah, I would love to go back 30 years with a bunch of money and buy up some of those cheap cars. Hell, a really nice ‘65 GTO wasn’t going to run you more than $5-10k back then. I drove a lot of those cars, but almost entirely the lower trim models (Cutlasses, Skylarks, Chevelles etc - not 442/GTO/SS models) .

I remember when I was shopping for that Olds, I test drove a ‘62 Impala 4 door hardtop - I might have bought it, it was really nice, but it was a 6 cylinder Powerglide, and damn if that wasn’t the slowest car I had ever driven at the time.