"Driving Sports TV" (drivingsports)
08/21/2018 at 12:22 • Filed to: Green Cars
0
12|
"Driving Sports TV" (drivingsports)
08/21/2018 at 12:22 • Filed to: Green Cars | 0
| 12 |
I drove the new LEAF electric and it didn’t suck.
Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
> Driving Sports TV
08/21/2018 at 12:34 |
|
Did it blow?
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Driving Sports TV
08/21/2018 at 13:04 |
|
Still a boxy economy car, and when the battery is dead, it is dead... no gas can on the side of the road option to get to the next gas or electric charging point.
Who will be the first to produce an ACTUAL PHEV enthusiast car.
How about this for the next Nissan Z...
2.4L power unit, with series-parallel hybrid rear drive, electric front assist and regeneration unit from this Leaf, with 1/2 to 1/4 of the battery load.
PHEV modes... full electric for up to 20-30 miles, series/parallel hybrid drive modes, and a high-speed direct drive mode, with variable regenerative charging, or electric torque boost.
2-seats, 3000lbs, and a sleek look, and roughly similar price point to this Leaf, (with the hybrid tech offset by having 50-75% less battery pack cost and weight)
Instead of being an affordable alternative to Jag E-type, as the original S30 240Z was... This would be an affordable alternative to B MW i8.
|
Driving Sports TV
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/21/2018 at 14:44 |
|
In the Seattle area charging stations are pretty commonplace. No worries about getting caught off-guard (a little planning doesn’t hurt.) Right now, the Hyundai Ioniq N might be the first affordable enthusiast electric. It will happen eventually.
|
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Driving Sports TV
08/21/2018 at 18:27 |
|
Out here in fly-over country, the nearest charging station that I have seen... a city more than 50 miles from my door. There may be others closer, but if i haven’t seen them on the route to that city, chances are they are miles out of the way of that route.
BEVs may work in urban and sub-urban environments, but rural... I remain unconvinced.
Seattle stays between ~50 and 80 degrees or so throughout the year, or am I wrong? Seems like the Pacific NW gets lots of rain and fog, but the ocean keeps the temps from wild swings?
It has been over 90 degrees here since May... with varying dry to very humid conditions.
By January and February, it will be below zero lows and cold snaps, and probably below freezing entirely for weeks at a time... maybe no snow, maybe 3ft+ of snow.
Air Conditioning and battery/controller/motor cooling, or cabin and battery heating on full output drains those batteries FAR faster, while simultaneously reducing their efficiency significantly at those temperature extremes.
And lack of energy for heat in sub-zero temperatures if stranded, isn’t just uncomfortable, it can be lethal due to frostbite... and so can heat-related illness be, due to exposure to extreme heat situations.
Fuel level in an internal combustion or hybrid vehicle is something to take seriously with winter, and summer distance driving.
a 150 mile BEV range in ideal conditions, with mild cabin climate control, and ambient air in the battery’s ideal range, is one thing.
That range and energy level is dramatically different at the extremes, and the range can be significantly shortened, in areas that don’t have abundant charging stations... or a shelter while waiting for that charge... which is something to consider.
The Dummy Gummy
> Driving Sports TV
08/21/2018 at 20:01 |
|
You did a really great job with the review but I think you missed one big flaw on the Leaf.
I just found this out, that is super atrocious. As someone who like fully utilizing my hatch, this is a deal breaker.
|
Driving Sports TV
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/22/2018 at 12:41 |
|
Yes, Seattle is fairly mild. We also get a large portion of our energy through hydroelectric, making electric cars both cheap and environmentally friendly to operate. (Some midwest areas are predominantly coal still.) Cold doesn’t affect electric car range quite so much as you expect. They have thermal management systems to keep the batteries operating in ideal conditions (which uses some power, but not enough to panic.) It’s not like a battery you keep in your pocket.
|
Driving Sports TV
> The Dummy Gummy
08/22/2018 at 12:44 |
|
That floor wart is only on the SL model, thanks to the Bose upgrade. Totally not necessary.
|
The Dummy Gummy
> Driving Sports TV
08/22/2018 at 13:02 |
|
That’s fair, but I was referencing that giant gap created by the seat backs.
|
Driving Sports TV
> The Dummy Gummy
08/22/2018 at 13:30 |
|
Been seeing this in some other sub-compacts recently, too. Nissan does sell an organizer that fits into that dead space, which creates more of a flush floor if that helps.
|
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Driving Sports TV
08/22/2018 at 14:51 |
|
not to panic...
easier said that done when stuck on the side of a rural road in a winter storm, 10 miles from anything, and relying on the gas in the tank to keep the engine running to stay warm... or having a spouse/family member in that situation. Or that situation in a BEV toward the end of it’s discharge cycle...
The reason that doesn’t happen more often than it does, (and it does occasionally happen), is because people around here, take things like that very seriously beforehand.
150 mile range is great in an urban area. For me to GET to an urban area is a minimum of 115 miles round trip, usually more than that to get to places within that area, that is just point A to B and back. 160-200 mile consolidated errand trips to the city are usual, with passenger and cargo load involved .
Add range consideration for getting somewhere other than the nearest edge of the city , deduct some battery range for running the cabin heat on high to stay warm, deduct some more to keep the batteries warm in order to deduct less in terms of lost efficiency in the extreme cold... deduct a little more to keep defrost, wipers, and lights active for visibility and being located, pretty soon, you are talking about not making it back on one charge.
That means you can’t complete the trip without finding a charger, and the time to charge above a safety margin , to avoid risking ending up stranded on the way home.
Or you can buy a car with a fuel tank, be that a traditional ICE car that has generally a 350-500 mile range on a full tank, or a hybrid that can at least keep itself going and warm by burning fuel... and doing what everyone around here should... keep the tank more than half-full at any given time during dangerously cold or slick weather, in case of becoming stranded, to keep the engine running, generating heat as a useful byproduct.
|
Driving Sports TV
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/22/2018 at 15:51 |
|
Also remember that it’s no uncommon for ICE engines to also freeze up, or not start at all , in very cold weather. Obviously, if all your driving is long-range then an electric doesn’t always make sense. But don’t make it sound like electric cars have more problems in cold weather than ICE engines do.
|
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Driving Sports TV
08/22/2018 at 16:13 |
|
9 times out of 10 an ICE engine that won’t start in the cold... is that the battery efficiency of the lead-acid 12 volt battery is so significantly affected, that it won’t crank the engine to start.
The other 10% might be othe r factors such as frozen water content in the fuel system, or diesel fuel viscosity issues in the cold, which is why diesel engines in trucks and other equipment stay idling on minimal fuel use, generating and re-using that heat to keep the fuel from thickening, rather than stopping and being unable to restart, or using utility-supplied electricity for heating the fuel system, engine block, and battery warmers.
I am saying that extreme heat, or extreme cold has efficiency degrading effects on batteries. pretty much ALL batteries.
Add in the climate control factors to keep batteries and humans within operational thermal limits when ambient thermal conditions are extreme , and that drains those batteries all the faster, when ending up with fully drained batteries can then lead to dangerous emergency situations.
It is chemistry and physics.
Electric propulsion is generally fine. Batteries are typically the weak link. They are heavy all the time , not nearly as energy dense as fuel as an energy storage medium , and take much longer to charge than a tank takes to fill.
Frankly, I would LOVE to see a LNG-clean-burning turbocharged wankel rotary or liquid piston rotary engine being used in a PHEV system, with just enough battery capacity to give ~ 15-20 miles of all-electric full-speed drive mode capability, and I would use the battery as the regenerative/recouperative energy buffer, torque for stop-and-go driving, and high-performance acceleration boost , and as a backup energy source, with the fuel burner for electrical generation or high-speed cruise direct drive, thermal energy source. Very little idling or overhead fuel energy waste, modest to minimal battery mass penalty, and the capability of charging in motion from the on-board power plant, rather than having the only option be to sit and wait at a high-current charging station...
Fuel-based energy , and electrical energy systems that truly give and take, and cooperate with each other’s strengths, and mitigate each other’s weaknesses, not just one or the other, or separately operating.