Opinions on the manual transmission

"CB" (jrcb) 08/19/2018 at 13:18 • Filed to: Opinions are like assholes

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In light of the recent FP article on Audi ditching the manual in the US, I’ve got some lukewarm takes.

1) Anyone complaining about there being no manual transmission Audis was never going to buy one new in the first place, and thus has no bearing on why Audi would keep them.

2) Having a manual doesn’t automatically make a car better.

3) Driving a manual in traffic blows, which I think is a major reason for people not buying manuals . I recently did a kilometre uphill in stop and go traffic, and it made me realize how much of a compromise there can be.

4) If I have room for two cars when I’m car shopping again in a few years, my DD will absolutely not have a manual. If I don't have room for two cars, odds of owning stick again are 50/50.

Dave the car guy , still here > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:32

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Not arguing any of your points. I’m driving a dual clutch DSG car but need to add I want another manual car having owned about 7 in the past. I’m just hoping that there are still some viable choices for me when I hit retirement and start looking for a toy.

Under_Score > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:32

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I didn’t even know what being in first or second gear was until a year ago or so. For me, all I care about is if I can pull my lever into Drive, Reverse, and Park. If it’s not moving, that’s a concern.

(I’m not trolling. I’m being completely honest. This is probably how most people are, too.)

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:33

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1. Sad but true

2. Regular true

3. Overall agreement : It’s palatable for occasional stop and go; not so much for frequent commutes in areas like mine.

4. I go back and forth on this one -- because I'm used to owning multiple vehicles.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:34

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My next car most likely won’t be a manual. Manuals do not dell, contrary to whatever Jalop fiends believ

LOREM IPSUM > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:35

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My take: If there is a manual option, I’d want it 100% of the time. Traffic b e damned. The only thing keeping me from making it a mandatory thing when car shopping is my wife, as she refuses to even consider attempting to learn to drive one.

But Audi definitely shouldn't use me as a reason, because I'll never buy one.

HammerheadFistpunch > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:35

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Traffic is about the only place where a manual is less enjoyable for me. Even then it’s not bad

Spanfeller is a twat > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:35

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I’m not sad Audi is dropping it and you are very much correct , but damn, manual cars are really fun. But since cars are appliances 99% of the time, it’s understandable manuals are going away.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:39

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i drive old crapcans... believe you me.. old manual beats old automatic any time any where

i gots no problems with modern automatics or those flappy paddle majigs tho

86notchback > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 13:39

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I like a manual in traffic...gives me something to do..

CB > LOREM IPSUM 08/19/2018 at 13:41

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Living in Saskatchewan, traffic usually isn't bad, but it turns something that should be fun into a chore.

CB > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 13:41

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Stop and go traffic, I disagree. Maybe because I'm still learning.

Gerry197 > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:42

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The angst is probably because sticks are being phased out in general, just another manufacturer down.

For manufacturers it has to do with fuel economy and performance compared to traditional manuals, then factor in costs associated with building transmissions very few people will take, and its a no brainer to cut manuals out of new models.

For me personally, a manual can make almost any car more enjoyable to drive. It’s the Miata of transmissions. Sure, there are faster high performing transmissions, but the manual gets you more involved and part of the driving experience.

Where that changes is in very high performance cars, where a high-performance dual-clutch auto makes better sense and actually feels better, especially on the track.

Funny thing is, especially with high performance cars, US buyers are at the forefront of keeping manuals alive in them. Its the US market that has prevented some high-performance cars from going full auto, especially with BMW M models for example.

There are still strong manual fans out there, enough for example to influence Porsche to create the Porsche 911R and GT3 Touring (due to car flippers for the 911R), both manual only models. Cars like the Mustang GT and Camaro SS have an almost 50% take on manuals. So manuals aren’t gone just yet, but the sun maybe setting.

DipodomysDeserti > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:42

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1. I would never buy an Audi new or used.

2. Yes it does. Manual transmissions make even bad cars more fun to drive.

3. I’ve never understood the manuals suck in traffic take. Heavy traffic sucks regardless. In an auto you ease off the brake, in a manual you ease off the clutch. Manuals have had hill holder functions for almost thirty years now.

My bird IS the word > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:44

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An automatic in a DD is preferred. A manual in a fun car likewise. My current garage is opposite this. I also want a flappy paddle box in anything over 500 hp.

Chuckles > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:50

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I agree 100%. My commute home involves a fair amount of true stop and go traffic. Not just heavy traffic, but coming to a complete stop every 20 feet for nearly a mile. In a manual, it’s a real chore

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:53

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My take:

I like manual transmissions, I hate the mindset that cars must have a manual transmission to be fun, or that some people hold the mindset that they refuse to buy a car without one. You’re missing out on some great cars that way.

And even if a certain car has a manual option, it doesn’t necessarily mean I’ll get it. I see no reason a stick would improve something like a Nissan Sentra, because the car is going to be slow and numb no matter what. But, a car like an MX-5, Camaro, GT86, Corvette, etc, would definitely have to have a manual for me.

interstate366, now In The Industry > CB 08/19/2018 at 13:59

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I recently went from a manual DD to an automatic (of a car that was available in manual, but not with the options I wanted, and supposedly less than 1% overall). I don’t regret it one bit, though I do have another car that is manual.

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 14:00

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A torquey car that requires little/no throttle isn’t bad. Keeps you occupied.

Ash78, voting early and often > Under_Score 08/19/2018 at 14:01

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I’m struggling for which of the “get out” gifs to use here.

/i kid

//but autos should all be shifted, too

///fuel economy, speed control, saving brakes

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:04

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I had something to add: if you go automatic on your next car, make sure the power is sufficient to tolerate its existence . There’s nothing like a 4-banger 4-gear w/ overdrive and 120 hp to make you wish you had never gotten out of bed.

Ash78, voting early and often > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:04

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Eh, most newer manuals have soft clutches and floppy knobs (giggity), so I’m not that jazzed about them anyway. When you take away so much of the feel, you take away so much of the enjoyment, too. Clutches might as well be button-pushes. Gears, too.

So basically we’re back to an automatic, just with a few more hassles.

The last really great manual I drove was an early 90s 911. The NA and NB Miata were also solid. I don’t mind the Wrangler. They all have feel.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:05

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If you didn’t know, the Fiesta will take off in first quite smoothly with no throttle input, just ease off the clutch and roll. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:06

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Spot on with number 1. I daily drive a manual with rush hour traffic. I don’t mind it at all. They probably won’t lose any sales over it. The business case for a manual is hard to make. I can see why Audi is pulling the plug.

Reserving it for top spec RS models makes sense.

CB > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/19/2018 at 14:09

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I'm planning on that sweet Volvo life. I'll be okay.

cluelessk > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:11

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Once you learn it, It become second nature. You don’t think of it’s muscle memory.

LA traffic would probably change my mind though.

Just Jeepin' > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 14:13

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Toledo Jeep Fest parade was miserable. That’s the only time in years I’ve regretted having a manual. (I once sprained my left ankle. That was bad too.)

LongbowMkII > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 14:18

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I don’t mind the act itself, but leaving space so I don’t need to stop and having it filled can be frustrating. Congrats! You gained half a car length!

Tristan > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:24

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I have a Suburban that gets 12 mpg in the daily grind of traffic. I also have a Jeep XJ that gets 17 mpg in the daily grind. I drive the Suburban every day because automatic.

Forrest > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:24

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“ 1) Anyone complaining about there being no manual transmission Audis was never going to buy one new in the first place, and thus has no bearing on why Audi would keep them.”

Actually, my plan seriously was to get a 2021 Audi A4 6MT when my Golf lease ends. Guess that won’t be happening. 

Tristan > Ash78, voting early and often 08/19/2018 at 14:26

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The ‘04 TDI Jetta we used to have was entertaining. Could go through all the gears up to 35 mph with zero throttle input!

HammerheadFistpunch > Ash78, voting early and often 08/19/2018 at 14:28

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The forester was a pain because it had a heavy clutch and NO low rpm power, the TDI was a joy for the exact opposite reason.

Dusty Ventures > CB 08/19/2018 at 14:44

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As Hammerthrow and Notchback said, I don’t mind a manual in traffic that much. Even in someone-rolled-a-dump-truck-full-of-rubber-ducks-and-there’s-now-a-6-into-1-merge-during-rush-hour-level traffic it’s not a huge deal to me. Maybe that’s down to experience, maybe it’s general personal preference. And anywhere outside of that traffic I absolutely prefer running through my gears. Even if it’s the up-down stoplight-to-stoplight routine. It makes driving more active and more fun to me. I realize others don’t see it that way and that’s fine, it’s personal preference.

The other thing I like about driving manual is that there are levels, and as you get experience you can keep leveling up. First you learn how to start from a stop and drive around without stalling. Then you level up to hill starts with the handbrake. Then you level up to hill starts without the hand brake. Then you can level up to rev matching your downshifts. Then if you really want to go big you can level up to clutchless shifting. Point is there’s always a new tier, a new challenge to try to master. It helps keep a repetitive task fresh and enjoyable, even on the daily commute.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > CB 08/19/2018 at 15:15

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No hills though, so that's a bonus. Lol

CB > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/19/2018 at 15:18

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Minus the one valley in Lumsden that I got stuck at the bottom of.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > CB 08/19/2018 at 15:24

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I will never own an automatic. I also will never buy a brand new car. So therefore my opinion is based solely on having the ability to buy used in the future some day. Of course it will just make manuals harder to come by if they just stop making them. But there should be enough cars around in my life time to never run out of manuals to drive. It just might cost more as they start to become increasingly rare.

I'd rather own a self driving car than daily an automatic for sure. If I'm not involved with the shifting, I'd rather just not deal with driving at all. Now I still want my self driving car to have a loud exhaust and I hope I can program it to drive like an ass hole. But yeah if I'm gonna drive, I want to be as involved as possible. The more raw the experience, the more I can enjoy commuting. 

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > cluelessk 08/19/2018 at 15:28

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Ehh LA traffic sucks, but it’s generally always moving. Stop and go traffic elsewhere is usually truly stopped. I’ve found in LA the majority of traffic is just super congestion where nothing is even wrong other than there are too many people. So the whole road just moves at 10mph. But usually it keeps moving. And there aren’t really all that many h ills where you would encounter traffic so it's pretty simple to just mosey along with a manual. I'm sure I would hate it if I had to commute on the 405 every day or something, but I would hate it no matter what I was driving. 

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > CB 08/19/2018 at 15:48

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Not that I’d be lining up but I really wish their A3/S3/RS3 lineup had a manual option. A manual RS3 on paper is like my dream car.

When I was driving 30 miles to from work in pretty heavy traffic I did go a little crazy in the beetle and sometimes wished for the dsg. Especiallyin this one stretch where I had to ride the bumper in front through stop and go, if I gave enough space to stay in first people would cut in. Now with my shorter 5-7 mile commute, I’m a pretty happy camper with a manual.

tromoly > CB 08/19/2018 at 16:03

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Chariotoflove > CB 08/19/2018 at 16:13

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Auto all the way for me in my one car . T hat is, if I had the choice now. If I could use a manual, I would say that my second, fun- time weekend car would be a stick if I had one.  But I do think it’s good for everyone to know how to drive stick, even if they normally don’t.

aquila121 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 16:32

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Honestly, I'm starting to gripe more and more about today's standard transmission cars having a clutch that's far too light and has a vague engagement point. Of course, you're right that a heavy clutch can sap enjoyment just as much, but I'm really thinking that many manufacturers had it right in the mid-nineties and early-2000s.

HammerheadFistpunch > aquila121 08/19/2018 at 16:35

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Like steering though, is not the weight that’s the issue... It’s the feel 

M.T. Blake > CB 08/19/2018 at 17:13

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Sadly we all knew they would some day go extinct. We’re all going to be those old timers at car shows complaining about how good carburetors are one day,  except for we will be talking about the standard trans. 

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > CB 08/19/2018 at 17:28

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I’m too jaded from owning vehicles with automatics that shit the bed unexpectedly or shit rebuilds. I drove a manual into the city to school my last two years there. It wasn’t bad nor the end of the world.

gmctavish needs more space > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/19/2018 at 17:31

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See al so, 4 banger, 4 speed auto, and 170hp that is all but soaked up by an AWD system. 

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) 08/19/2018 at 17:45

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ur face

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/19/2018 at 18:02

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GET OFF MY LAWN YOUNG MAN

Scott K. > CB 08/19/2018 at 18:47

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Fo r my daily driver I’d rather have a CVT. Smoother and more efficient. I did own a manual in the past but  the novelty wore out.

Unpopular opinion, but oh well.

aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe > interstate366, now In The Industry 08/19/2018 at 18:59

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rip tsx

pizzaman09 > CB 08/19/2018 at 19:10

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I do prefer manuals, even in traffic as I get bored very quickly driving an auto but don’t mind it as long as I don’t have to daily it. However what I really dislike are the modern autos with 6+gears. I have trouble with no t being able to choose what gear I want to be in. Th e flappy paddles don’t seem to fire gear shifts when you ask them too. Also I end up finding them not very smooth as I don’t know when to expect the shifts like in a 4 speed auto, they drive me crazy when driving in the snow as I don’t know when they are going to downshift and send a surge of torque to the wheels, where as in a manual it will always stay in the gear I put it in.

I’m about as jalop as it gets though. I feel like all new cars feel like driving a simulator and I’m not actually connected to the machine without a second party filtering my inputs before the car is commanded to do something. I can easily afford a pricey new car, but I much prefer the, 20 to 60 year old cars I daily drive. They involve me in the process of driving.

I Wear My Engineering Hat Sideways > CB 08/19/2018 at 19:11

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Yes. Manuals suck in traffic. Automatics also suck in traffic. Traffic sucks. 

MedNV > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! 08/19/2018 at 19:24

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Agreed. Econoboxes that don't cause me excitement are best left automatic. Now sporty vehicles or old trucks with manuals are preferred. 

Dr. Robert > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 19:28

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I will always favor manual trannies. Especially when it concerns a Benz product. I love the control, the thrust of payload, the better mileage, and so on

Smudgeous > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! 08/19/2018 at 19:31

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I absolutely would not buy a vehicle without a manual transmission. Having driven two 2011/2012 Hyundai Elantras in both configurations for over 10k miles each , it was night and day comparing the road experience of the manual. It also took far longer to find my used BMW 5 series in a stick, but it was absolutely worth the wait when comparing it vs the numerous automatics I test drove prior.

I’m curious which cars you believe to be fun that aren’t available in a manual.. It may be an issue of budget, but I have not found this to be the case for myself.

Unit562 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 19:47

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I agree. I find it laughable that the author of the article says opinions   are like ass holes, then voices his. I was looking to purchase a new Audi in the next 12 months, but now I’m not. BMW still offers manuals, don’t they? 

50ford500 > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 08/19/2018 at 20:05

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Case in point; many of those who want manual transmissions don’t buy them new. They wait to become 2nd/3rd/54th owners to look for them. If more people bought new high optioned cars and demanded manuals; there might be some. Sadly that isn't true.

bhtooefr > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/19/2018 at 20:50

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I have a 4-banger with 12 1 hp (and only 96 of them from the 4-banger itself) , and either 1 or infinite gears depending on how you count them, thank you very much.

Nope > CB 08/19/2018 at 21:21

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You'll get used to it.  i think about shifting as much as i do tying my shoes.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > 50ford500 08/19/2018 at 21:26

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Used manuals sit forever

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 21:31

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You want a real MAN’S CLUTCH? Try an 80-120HP tractor with a dry plate mechanical clutch as opposed to a wet clutch (which most more powerful tractors have these days, often an electro-hydraulically controlled one. Many modern tractors often just have a potentiometer and return spring attached to the clutch pedal. It is an odd and highy digital driving experience. Luckily most of them will auto-clutch when you shift, so using the video-game clutch pedal is not often required.). The Zetor is a legit leg workout. The engagement point is very positive and has excellent feel, but is also quite narrow, meaning you have to exercise fine motor control of your leg while pressing ~150 -175  lbs in order to make smooth starts. luckily it has like 200 ft/lb (270 nm) of torque at idle, so just dumping it and living with the jerk is always an option.

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > aquila121 08/19/2018 at 21:37

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my m5 has a super heavy clutch. have not enjoyed the 2 stop-and-go s essions so far. much prefer my e30's super light one...

Lcifer > CB 08/19/2018 at 21:40

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Considering all Honda come with a brake hold button traffic with a m anua l or on hills shouldn’t even be a reason anymore your just lazy drivers I bought a brand new Audi in 06 with a manual traded it in last October for a 2017 Si 92xx on odo now if it doesn't come in a manual I'm not buying

JeffreyK > CB 08/19/2018 at 21:52

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I don’t know how to drive an automatic. That’s a lie, but not far from the truth. I have had no less than 9  manual transmission cars, most of which were bought new. Wouldn’t have traded any one of them for an auto except maybe a DSG on my 2nd Golf R. But, then again, no.

Squareback, fiesta, EXP, escort GT, Ranger, 5.0 LX, laser, ‘12 golf r, ‘16 golf r. Some crap in there but doesn’t change my mind :-)

MTmanual > CB 08/19/2018 at 21:57

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I’ve been fortunate enough to live rurally for the majority of my life,  where a manua l is more fun than pain. That calculus might change if I lived where traffic was more of an issue.  Plus, I really enjoy a manual in the snow. The less I have to tap the brakes the better :-)

50ford500 > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 08/19/2018 at 22:03

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Sure on dealer lots but how many people here bemoan the loss of manuals yet refuse to put their money where their mouths are and buy new ones or even second hand ones that aren't of the craigslist variety??

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > CB 08/19/2018 at 22:28

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1. True

2. False

3. False

4. I have 3 street worthy vehicles and a motorcycle. All are manual but my powerstroke. And im trying to find a manual one of those

Veganpotter > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2018 at 22:36

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Its easy enough to shift an automatic. Not they they shift faster than manuals, it makes no sense to buy one. You can put a squishy pillow under your left foot to pretend you’re using a clutch.

b1ackhawk > CB 08/20/2018 at 00:20

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I actually prefer a manual in traffic. When I drive the wife car with an auto in traffic, my right leg tends to get tired, where with the manual, it seems like the left and right legs get more equal work and I could do it all day.

As with many things in life, a little bit of work and practice pays off in better enjoyment of life, a better appreciation of something or some other reward. However, it seems increasingly for people to either just be lazy or have a crippling fear of failure, or some other irrational reason for not doing or trying something. Of course, not everyone enjoys driving in the first place, so that further narrows down the potential pool of candidates.

Another thing I’d point out, I’m not the first, but often manufacturers don’t offer manual in the models that would be the most desirable to have them. People who love to drive don’t buy the stripped down base model, they buy the nicely optioned  model with the more powerful engine,etc.

Kristal > 86notchback 08/20/2018 at 00:21

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Absolutely agree. Only ever had manual (4th vehicle now) and I am willing to sacrifice luxury in order to keep driving a standard.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > 50ford500 08/20/2018 at 00:28

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I bought one, can’t blame me, b ut I don’t expect to pass mine on to a second owner for a very long time, so I’m not helping with the used manual car supply aside from selling my old one.

ZedChild > CB 08/20/2018 at 01:23

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I’m currently driving as 1998 mid-size pickup , and the only reason I will not buy a new vehicle is there are none available with manual transmiss ions . It’s gotten to the point that I will buy a pre-1985 and restore the thing. At least that wa y I ’ll be able to do all my own repairs, and I will not have to shell out 40k on a vehicle that will not hold up near a s well. My pick-up is as 5 speed. I’ve never had any problem with a manual, even during the 17 years in semi s: short haul, long haul/OTR, and city P&D in some of the worst traffic in the USA. I’m pleased they make autos for all of y’all that find manual too demanding, but to simply not offered because you can’t operate them would be much like beef steaks replaced with tofu just because 10% of the population is vegan.

Yes, learning to drive a manual is a bit harder, and it does require the operator to actually pay attention to driving, when i know most motorists would rather spend staring at the lite rectangle in their hands. But, hey. What   is more important: your phone, or the 40k killed every year in the USA in MV C (motor vehicle collisions) and the 3-5 million injured in each year?

Now, you get Audi to import as manual transm ission car, and I’ll buy the damn thing! But for now, how about a midsize 4x4 with a 5 or 6 speed trans and manual wind-up windows. Driving a manual keeps the operator in touch with the vehicle and the r oad. Until all personal transportation is self-driving, at least offer chiles with a “special ” order option. Y’all know the rest of the world laughs and feels pity for westerners that do not know how to operate personal transportation unless it is an automatic.

CodyVella > CB 08/20/2018 at 01:36

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I know this is kinda a bad example because the truck was designed 4 billion years ago, but my 2013 Frontier has a 6 Speed manual and it gets better fuel economy, has more torque, and can tow more than the 76 year old 5 speed auto.

CodyVella > HammerheadFistpunch 08/20/2018 at 01:38

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In my 2013 Frontier is still alright in traffic, I don’t even have to press the gas, just let the clutch out and it rolls.

Nauraushaun > CB 08/20/2018 at 04:59

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My counter is something on the lines of every nail in the manual coffin goes against my interested. I think they do make a car better - any car. They don’t make a car good but they make it better.

I rue the day that the manual lover only has choice of old cars or older cars. Even if i wouldn’t buy one new today.

Sinanigans > CB 08/20/2018 at 06:45

1

I used to commute into midtown Manhattan for years with my BRZ. Driving in any traffic sucks ass, but I can’t say driving a manual in traffic is really any worse. After years of driving manual, it’s become second nature in traffic. For driving all the other times, driving a manual is the greatest. If they stop making them altogether, then I'll just buy used cars. 

Hoy! Lip buddy pawnch! > aquila121 08/20/2018 at 07:11

0

They are like light switches. On/Off.

Tazmetal > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/20/2018 at 07:50

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I drive a 4banger with 3 spd auto plus OD , and I find ways to keep it fun....keep the skinny pedal on the floor and scrub your speed in corners....momentum car can be fun in traffic....feels like advanced frogger

functionoverfashion > CB 08/20/2018 at 08:42

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Your first two points are right on. The third point, well, it depends on the car, and the traffic; how often and how long is it? I can’t remember the last time I sat it “stop and go traffic” in my car.

We recently struggled with the manual vs auto decision on my wife’s new commuter car. We found a 2015 M ini with under 8,000 miles on it, but where she and I have both owned all manuals and this was not (notable exception: our Volvo wagon that we still have), AND all Minis are still available with a manual... I was skeptical until I drove it. Aside from my left foot being bored, that car is every bit as fun with the automatic. In ‘sport mode’ it shifts just the way I would want it to, and for me, that’s what matters the most. I do miss the feel of shifting with my right hand BUT as long as it’s not constantly in a gear or two up from where I would want it (ahem, Volvo) I enjoy driving the car about 99.9% as much as the manual. My wife’s commute is also 95% highway and 5% city blocks. So... she won’t miss it too much.

*Background - I grew up driving manuals only, and have been driving them with few exceptions since I was 13, which is... 24 years ago. Yikes. My point is, I’m pretty die-hard and still can admit that some autos are good.

tl/dr: some automatics are good, no one realizes that some people never sit in traffic and would always prefer a manual; my next car will 100% be a manual unquestionably.

Textured Soy Protein > CB 08/20/2018 at 09:37

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I drive a manual in traffic on my way home from work. It can get annoying.

My car in general can get a little annoying with the stiff ride and noise and whatnot. I probably spend more time putzing around town suffering with the downsides than I do using the upsides but using the upsides is so satisfying.

Then I drive my wife’s comfier car (previously an Impreza, now a CX-5) and I’m like, “you know, this is kinda relaxing.”

CobraJoe > CB 08/20/2018 at 09:41

1

The trick is: Try not to stop. Try to adjust your speed to the average speed of the traffic in front of you, and leave enough of a gap that you can keep rolling at a constant speed while they’re stopping and going.

Once you do that trick successfully a couple of times, you’ll wonder why so many people avoid manual transmissions .

LOREM IPSUM > CB 08/20/2018 at 09:56

4

I’ve dealt with BC traffic, NYC Traffic, Boston Traffic, among others, and would still choose a manual every time. Once you're adept, it IS automatic.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > CB 08/20/2018 at 10:05

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...and an automatic doesn’t automatically make a car worse, but it does make the gear changes automatically.

I agree with you on #2, but a manual can make many cars more enjoyable to drive.

I was not completely opposed to getting in automatic in the new Tacoma I just bought, but the automatic was bad enough (hunting for gears like crazy, just in a short test drive), that I got the manual. Very happy with my choice.

Dr.Jeckyl > CB 08/20/2018 at 10:43

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I h ad a manual transmission in all my cars for 15 years. I even dealt with Chicago traffic with it. Got married and wife and I have been swapping cars, she can’t drive a standard, now no manual. I think it’s personal opinion but for me a manual is always the better option. My wife has even come around and is open to learning. Now just to figure out which car, GTI, FoST, Mazda 3?

Dr.Jeckyl > Gerry197 08/20/2018 at 10:51

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“ Funny thing is, especially with high performance cars, US buyers are at the forefront of keeping manuals alive in them.”

I just read that the UK is losing the manual in the Golf R. But the US gets to keep it because the take rate is so high. Wish I could remember where I read it. It was just one of those articles that Google sends because"you showed interest in the VW Golf".

Andrew Lawler > CB 08/20/2018 at 11:08

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Audi not offering a manual in the new TT was actually the reason I didn’t buy one a couple years ago. Went with a new WRX instead.

That’s a weekend car though; I drive a stickshift diesel sedan through traffic jams every weekday, and like some others have said I feel like it keeps me involved in the experience and gives me something to do. But it all comes down to preference. I like the act of driving, so I want to be as involved in it as I can.

Michael > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/20/2018 at 11:23

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My work beater is a 2014 Jetta S, with a manual for that exact reason.  Test drove an automatic at first, but 4K pounds + slushbox + 110hp = unacceptable.  4K pounds + stick + 110hp = almost usable.

Michael > Under_Score 08/20/2018 at 11:24

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Most people aren’t “car people.”

Michael > Ash78, voting early and often 08/20/2018 at 11:28

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You lost me at “saving brakes.”

Brake pads are an easily user-serviced wear item. Transmissions are not. Wear the  fck outta those pads before those plates/valves because those pads are easier to get to.

This goes out the window for track/performance driving, ofc.

Michael > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 08/20/2018 at 11:30

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1/10, troll harder. Besides, you r next car is a ten year old Kia, don't lie.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > cluelessk 08/20/2018 at 11:59

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Some particularly nasty traffic going through the city onc e actually made me wish I had an automatic. Once. I actually hate the traffic in downtown Seattle worse in a manual because everything is on a hill and it’s full of self-important tailgaters in BMWs and AMGs that I’d rather not roll back into or get rear ended by because I don’t start moving forward the instant my brake lights go off.

But everywhere with at least half-decent traffic? I’d much rather have a manual transmission.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/20/2018 at 12:09

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This. It’s true that stop and go there is rare (mostly on the 405 because it wasn’t designed properly and in certain parts of town with a high concentration of people that aren’t familiar with the rules of the road ). It’s also a place where traffic moves quite swiftly even when there are  a large number of cars on the road, something that other places can’t seem to pull off at all . Where I live now, if they can see another car going the same direction they seem to slow down. There, you can have hundreds of cars all in a tight formation doing 85mph and nobody thinks twice about it.

In most of the city, driving a manual is fine and traffic is fairly endurable. Big problems are usually caused by something unusual happening.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > aquila121 08/20/2018 at 12:31

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You hate dual mass flywheels. They are annoying because they make you less accurate since the bite point is muted, but they make them really easy to drive for people that aren’t very experienced.

They probably increase the take rate among people unfamiliar with them, but at the expense of driving experience.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > CobraJoe 08/20/2018 at 12:32

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Most drivers can’t think ahead that far and you’ll end up cut off a million times in traffic in most cities if you do it.

CobraJoe > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/20/2018 at 12:43

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I don’t think you’ll get cut off any more than usual. There are only so many of those kinds of jerks on the road.

And you’ll actually be making the drive better for the people behind you.

You can always practice the method in an automatic vehicle too!  It makes your drive smoother and it gives you something to do beyond stabbing the brake and gas pedal alternately. 

thejustache > CB 08/20/2018 at 12:44

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Idk I mean traffic sucks in any car. I don’t live in LA or anything but after 9 years of dailying manuals - including time spent in traffic back when I used to work in a city - and I wouldn’t trade for an auto any day. Granted, my current DD has a heavy stage 2 clutch and it’s a left leg workout in traffic. But so what? I can probably use the workout. The upside is my car has enough torque to crawl forwards without giving it any gas, so you don’t use the clutch as much as you’d think. In my other cars with the OEM clutch it was even less of an issue. And when the traffic clears? I’m enjoying my car that much more.

Honestly, hearing all the “but the traffficccccc” whiners makes me wonder if all your driving is in such traffic why do y’all have cars at all? I get it, because you have to... but still if the only driving you ever do is in traffic it’s going to suck regardless. At that point if you’re so determined to have an auto just get a used yaris for like $2500 and then a nice car with a manual for the few hours a week you can actually drive somewhere not horrible

Daniel Brown > CB 08/20/2018 at 12:49

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To mitigate one of your points, the Fiesta ST you show as an example picture actually has a very good hill hold feature too, only adds to the enjoyment of a manual when one of the major downsides is eliminated.. And if you really don't like hill hold, it's easy to disable as well.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > CB 08/20/2018 at 13:09

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1) Some of those people would buy one, but not nearly enough to matter. Most would be second owners, and while (IMO) Audi should be concerned with used Audi sales as it clears a space to sell new ones, The priority still must be on new Audi’s. If you can make a used Audi more appealing at the expense of new sales that’s just stupid.

2) I would argue that while it doesn’t necessarily make a high-powered vehicle better, it does make all or nearly all low-powered vehicles better because you can use more of what little the engine is churning out. Moderate-powered vehicles can go either way... dependent mostly on the OEM trans tuning. If a Nissan CVT is the option, manual all the way. DSG Audi? Debatable.

3) Once I figured out hills I didn’t have much issue with traffic. I’d argue it’s mostly down to gearing and how heavy/sudden the clutch is. My guinea pig was a Golf 2.5 fwiw.

4) If I had room or money for two cars, there’s a 90% shot one would be a manual. As it is, it’s neither a deal maker nor breaker for me.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! 08/20/2018 at 13:16

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some people hold the mindset that they refuse to buy a car without one.

Related to this. The biggest reason I ended up with the vehicle I did was because I knew it existed. I was looking at Colorado’s for a bit and found a few I quite liked—one of which was the second-biggest engine, so not bad, and the later version at that. So the bigger brakes as well. 4x4. Reg cab/short bed. MANUAL. But I knew the V8 was a thing so I just couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. If a V8 manual had been produced odds are I’d still be looking.

TL;DR I am the person who holds out for the best possible variant within a model. Not quite the same thing but similar.

Jack > CB 08/20/2018 at 13:22

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1) what? I guess I’m not buying new because I like Manua l s so I must not be able to afford new!? First point dosen’t make sense

2) H aving a Manua l dosen’t “ automatically” make the car better. It manually makes it better. I have dozens of points to counter this one but one that you just can’t argue is that manuals are less expensive (or used to be), and un deniability more reliable

3) traffic - Stick it in 2nd, gas and clutch

4) Q uit yur crying! P ut on your big boy pants, shift, DRIVE!

5) The manual trans is, for any serious driver, a sixth sense. My standard transmission connects me to the car and the road. I’m able to feel my car, how its reacting to the road, the environment (wind, elevation, quality of fuel, etc. ).

6) W e have become lazy, humanity is slowly losing its perspective. We are becoming spoiled which has resulted in people being less inclined to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

7) All 16 year olds should have to drive standard for 5 years. In 15 years my child will be driving standard. I have 4 neices, 3 drive autos and have multiple accidents. 1 drives standard and 0 accidents.

feather-throttle-not-hair > HammerheadFistpunch 08/20/2018 at 13:37

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You say this now, but just wait till you get older. I’m 36 and i’ve never owned an auto and let me tell you, driving a manual in traffic every day is just..... still not that bad. You’d think i’d be sick of it by now, but nope. Still just not that bad.

feather-throttle-not-hair > 50ford500 08/20/2018 at 13:40

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Ehh some of us still do. Looking around me, 3/4 people sitting in my little area of the office own manual cars that they bought new.