Cadillac ATS: Cimarron 2.0?

"LJ909" (lj909) 08/13/2018 at 09:10 • Filed to: None

0

40

Well not exactly. But the ATS wasn’t the hit GM thought it would have been. With it along with the CTS being on the way out for 2019 to make way for the 2 in one CT5, I think it’s safe to say that the Germans and Japanese had nothing to worry about from the ATS sales wise.

The ATS debuted for the ‘13 model year to big fan fare. It of course had big shoes to fill. Here was yet another attempt to try and dethrone the benchmark 3 Series. Except this time GM finally got it right. The car put everyone on notice. With a trio of engines (the base 2.5 is and always will be terrible and the 2.0T had its own problems) along with the V Series, it showed that America could be taken seriously in the sport sedan category. Some have even said that the ATS was better than the 3 Series.

But like the bigger CTS, sales never took off. Its first year on the market, 2012, it sold 7,008. The 3 Series and C Class both sold 107,705 and 86,938 respectively. The ATS second year on the market,2013, it sold just under 39,000.It would never sell that many again.

Every year since 2014, the ATS has gone down sales wise: 29,890 in ‘14, 26,873 in ‘15, 21,505 in ‘16, 13,100 last year, and as of this writing through July its only 7,748. Now can this be blamed on crossovers and the overall abandonment (supposedly) of sedans? It could be, if you’re looking for an easy reason sure. But it hasn’t stopped anything over at BMW and Mercedes. Just under 60,000 3 Series found homes last year and nearly 78,000 C Classes. Hell even this year Alfa Romeo is closing in with just 528 units separating the ATS from the Giulia. The only sport sedan that sells less is the Jaguar XE.

To be frank, people weren’t interested in the ATS and sadly it still shows. A quick Cargurus search will show you plenty of 2017’s still sitting on lots with many dealers still selling them for over 35 grand. So is it a stretch to say that the ATS was a Cimarron 2.0? In a sense. The Cimarron was a piece of badge engineered crap. Its often cited as the reason for the loss of Cadillac’s market share in the US. But they both did have one thing in common: slow sales. The ATS will probably be remembered as an outlier in GM product planning: something they did right from the get go but sadly because of past mistakes and neglect, no one cared enough to notice. Rest in paradise ATS.

LOREM IPSUM > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 09:20

1

Something about a 4 cylinder Cadillac just never sat right with me. Irrational, perhaps, but dems the breaks.

pip bip - choose Corrour > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 09:27

3

if Cadillac think they will be number one in their class again they’re dreaming, those days have sailed and people are voting with their wallets for German

Ash78, voting early and often > LOREM IPSUM 08/13/2018 at 09:45

1

I feel the exact same way about BMW (I6) and Mercedes (V6) , but the sales numbers tell me I’m the weirdo.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 09:47

1

I wanted to like the ATS, I really did. That looks (Subjective obviously, I like the facelifted one with the new grill) ,steering, handling and 3.6V6 combination was so enjoyable and I loved driving it. But in my opinion it was let down by certain key mistakes.

1. Too small, IIRC they benchmarked the E46 for this, not the E90. The back seats and trunk were no better than a big coupe. Fine if no adult sits in the back. it was a common complaint. Big big mistake IMO , They should have made the Chinese ATS-L the US model.

2. CUE was terrbile, back in 2013-2015 then it started getting better. Hated the haptic feedback no button touch controls as well.

3. Guages from a 90s Pontiac. Terrbible. It’s literally what you see most of the time when you’re driving. They had to cut corners on that out of all things?

4. The 2.5 rental spec should have never been offered. Diluted the perception big time. Sure BMW can pull it off with the 320i but not Cadillac

5. The 2.0T had tons of problems, I researched the forums quite thoroughly. Some were due to mods but even otherwise, 3.6V6 was the far better choice but ended up being expensive.

But having said all that, I would not pass up on a chance to buy an ATS-V if the price and time is right(They have dropped to $40K avg now), as long as I have another bigger family vehicle.

jimz > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 09:49

1

Cimarron? don’t make me laugh. The Cimarron’s problem is that everyone knew it was a Cavalier. and launching with that miserable 1.8 pushrod 4-cylinder buzzfest destroyed any claim the could have had for calling it a Cadillac.

The ATS flopped because it was launched just in time for sedans to fall out of favor.

FSI > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 10:02

1

The ATS will be my next car. 

LJ909 > LOREM IPSUM 08/13/2018 at 10:11

1

I agree. But they had to change with the times. Plus the ATS isn’t a traditional Cadillac. So it’s ok. What’s not ok is them thinking that the 2.5 out of the Malibu would be ok for a sport sedan. 

Milky > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 10:12

2

I’d drive the shit out of a 3.6 coupe in purple tho.

Snailkite > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 10:14

2

GM outlier? It’s totally GM to launch the right product at the wrong time - a small sharp handling car just as the entry level luxury  market was moving to larger and softer vehicles and CUVs.

LOREM IPSUM > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/13/2018 at 10:15

3

If they could convince the bean counters to expatriate, they might have a shot.

Even bmw knows, you spend the dough on good interior plastics and cheap out on the cooling system and suspension bushing polymers.

LJ909 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 08/13/2018 at 10:21

1

I agree with you on all of those points. Many are the exact reasons I passed on the ATS myself.

It was WAY too small. Like a big coupe like you said. The actual coupe model will make you wonder why the damn thing wasnt a 2 seater. It’s rear legroom was laughable and reminded me of how small the first gen CTS was. The ATS-L from China wouldn’t have worked here because at that point you might as well get a CTS.

CUE was bad. What made it was was that it seemed rushed and to be around for no other reason than because everyone has their own infotainment systems with marketable names.

The plain gauges were a disgrace. The CTS suffered from this too. And in base and mid-level trims reminded you you didn’t or couldn’t spring for the top.

I don’t know what they were thinking with offering the 2.5 but it shouldn’t have ever existed and hurt the model I think.

Hopefully ATS-V prices come down in the next few years. They got that one totally right. 

LJ909 > jimz 08/13/2018 at 10:24

0

That’s my point though. Sedans aren’t falling out of flavor. Cadillac just did what they should have done years ago too late. And when they finally got it right, everyone that would've got one or cared got something else. 

LJ909 > Milky 08/13/2018 at 10:25

0

I would too. But it’s small as hell. 

LJ909 > Snailkite 08/13/2018 at 10:27

0

True. But I meant outlier in that they got it right from the get-go. Not typical GM where they make a car that’s not good and then only make it as good as it should have been from the start right before they add it. Models like the SSR and Fiero. 

404 - User No Longer Available > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 10:37

1

Biggest problem? They tried head to head with pricing with the Germans. You can’t just waltz in with the same price after building a full decade of terrible FWD milk floats. And while it handled perfectly (better than the F30 in some cases), their beancounters still did the interior.

All it took was a bps drop in the lease rate from the Germans and it got demolished.

Chariotoflove > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 10:45

2

Lots of good reasons cited here for why the ATS didn’t sell well. But I think the biggest one is the herd mentality. Everyone knows that if you want to signal that you’ve arrived and are one of the successful crowd, you get a 3 series, or maybe a C class. The ATS is for people who march to their own drummer and aren’t “one of us”.

For all that people talk about the handling and performance, that’s a minority enthusiast issue. Beyond a certain base level that most people can appreciate, the fine points of driving dynamics are not the basis for the buying  decisions of most people who buy these cars. 

LJ909 > 404 - User No Longer Available 08/13/2018 at 10:46

1

Damn. Spot on. That wannabe German pricing plauges the CTS and the CT6 ( saw a CT6 outside of Costco yesterday with the window sticker of just under 90 grand). Instead of testing the waters or putting just a toe or 2 I'm, they just jumped into the pool. Hell the Koreans are proving that you can best or beat the Germans and Japanese and be cheaper. Why couldn't they?

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 08/13/2018 at 10:50

2

This is true sadly. You could almost say all that benchmarking and ‘Ring testing they did was waisted because the average customer doesn't know or care. 

404 - User No Longer Available > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 11:14

2

Well the CT6 is an attempt to fix things. It starts at E-Class/5-series pricing but the car is more akin to an S-Class/7-series in size. Pretty much the same formula the G80 is going for.

This is actually going back to the first CTS’ strategy, albeit a bit better execution. They still need to stop the beancounters from touching the car.

What they REALLY need is to  re-establish an identity. The concepts were a good start but of course being GM they never built any of them.

LJ909 > 404 - User No Longer Available 08/13/2018 at 11:34

0

The CT6 shows though they still don’t know what they are doing. It’s a 5/E/A6 sized car that’s bigger than a CTS but all than a 7/S/A8 but is priced to cover both of those classes. We wanted a proper flagship and they still haven’t given it to us. 

404 - User No Longer Available > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 11:35

1

Well they ARE stuffing a V8 in it now.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 08/13/2018 at 11:36

1

1. The ATS is a Coupe, is the problem. The mistake was selling it as a sedan. It’s a coupe. It works fine as a coupe. Sticking two more doors on it was a bad idea.

2. CUE is the fucking worst thing ever, just like all it’s siblings. GM could fix the earlier versions since the hardware hasn’t changed at all. They refuse to. Same shit they pulled with IntelliLink. And you can never replace it adequately , because it’s also the HVAC control unit. This is the worst design ever.

2a. Did you know that the PDR can’t be added to a non-PDR car ever ? Even if you install all the parts, won’t work.

3. Even the 90's Pontiacs had better gauges. Seriously. It is the most embarrassingly bad setup I have seen on any GM.

4. The rental spec would have been fine if they’d just used the 2.0 LTG AWD and gone cloth instead of leather. The 2.0 AWD is a perfectly competent setup. The 2.5 is just... why? WHY?!

5. The LTG is a very reliable engine aside from top end coking (around 25-35k for most owners.) It only becomes unreliable if you abuse it or apply idiot mods. Of course the exception is the defective piston batch, but beyond that? The LTG is fine if you aren’t a fucktard.

5a. GM’s full of shit when they try to say it’s just new pistons, rings, and the block is fine. The block is not fine . The wall between the cylinders is a weak point. It doesn’t like being smacked. It really doesn’t like it. Can’t call it good without an NDT. (It’s more complicated , but I don’t wanna increase my blood pressure explaining the misfire issue and idiots who fill with 87 .)

5b. Outside of ring failures, I’ve never seen a blown LTG that hadn’t been subjected to stupidity. “I’mma slap a CAI on it and turn up the boost to 30!” Or just assuming a SIDI engine works the same as a MPFI. It doesn’t. Not even remotely. My favorite is people who turn the boost and the flow and think that’s fine. It’s not.

5c. I’ve driven the 3.6 ATS-V; the engine has major thermal management problems. It’s Corvette Z06, take two. Even with the exchanger, there was serious hot air bog on a 90F day. (This was a ‘17 6spd.) Being very used to supercharged engines, it was easy to spot. Once it got to operating temp, it was dumping timing h ard.

Insult to Injury: t he ATS-V has the same ACM (Airbag Control Module) problem as the Regal. HOW?! It’s LITERALLY a matter of needing to better shield the passenger seat sensor from NFC!

But that’s why a brand new ‘17 ATS-V manual with a $75k sticker that still qualified for V-Performance Academy sat so long, GM wouldn’t lease it because of age , and you could drive it home for $57k.

404 - User No Longer Available > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 08/13/2018 at 11:37

0

Too small, IIRC they benchmarked the E46 for this, not the E90. 

So this new alleged CT3/CT4 might actually end up the same size as the ATS, if they are going for tweener sizes.

I’m actually OK with that, if it ends up cheaper than the ATS and slightly larger than an A3. With the price you know what you’re going into, vs the ATS was head to head with the 3 (which got larger).

Chariotoflove > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 11:49

1

I’ll take it even further and say that the knocks on interior materials are also beside the point, because the truth is that the materials in the average 3 series aren’t that spectacular either. Sure, they’re well made, but they don’t feel especially luxurious or special.*

*I confess I don’t know about the current 3 series, as I haven’t gone to sit in one.

LJ909 > 404 - User No Longer Available 08/13/2018 at 11:49

0

True. That should help thing s. But it’s only going to be available on the V Sport, not part of the regular engine lineup. 

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 08/13/2018 at 11:51

1

Having sat in one myself I can say it’s nothing to brag about, but it’s still not that much better than the CTS. A lease special 320i is an upper middle class persons Corolla. 

Chariotoflove > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 11:54

1

I’ ve often said that about Dallas, well, I say a Civic, but same idea.

404 - User No Longer Available > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 12:02

0

It is though. V-Sport gets the 550hp, regular gets the 500hp.

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/03/new-cadillac-ct6-v-sport-v8-flagship-weve-waiting/

The company also said that a 500hp version of the same engine will also be offered with the non V-Sport CT6.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > LJ909 08/13/2018 at 22:52

0

What I think will continue to plag ue gm is how to overlap buick, and cadillac. Why have a performance Regal GS in base ATS territory? oh yeah dealers. 

MultiplaOrgasms > LOREM IPSUM 08/14/2018 at 00:46

1

Lol, BMW and decent interior materials.

LOREM IPSUM > MultiplaOrgasms 08/14/2018 at 00:49

0

Well, when you're comparing it to a GM, anyway...

LongbowMkII > LOREM IPSUM 08/14/2018 at 09:30

0

nah. the ATS has better materials than the 3. 

LongbowMkII > LJ909 08/14/2018 at 09:36

1

can you even get a V8 in a non AMG E class?

LOREM IPSUM > LongbowMkII 08/14/2018 at 09:56

0

I was mostly being cheeky, but this almost surprises me... Though not by much. BMW interiors haven’t really impressed me since the 90's. Plastic, and sporty silver plastic... Everywhere.

JRJFK > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/14/2018 at 10:11

0

I will keep my V and not look back, it has some things that could be improved, but from a driving aspect its pretty damn good and not like you see one on every corner

Future next gen S2000 owner > LJ909 08/14/2018 at 10:20

1

They are good cars. It’s a shame people are terrible.

LJ909 > LongbowMkII 08/14/2018 at 10:48

0

Nope not anymore. 

Matt > Chariotoflove 08/14/2018 at 11:29

0

Well guys.....all I can say is I love my ATS. Drove the 3. Drove the C. Nice cars no doubt. But frankly they are a dime a dozen here in CT. Mostly graduation presents for spoiled brats or wanna-be status symbols. Plus the Cadillac just drives right for me. It actually came down to the Lexus IS or the ATS. The grill on the Lexus ARGH!!!! Lol. Plus the Caddie just felt right. Bonus is you don’t see a dozen or more everyday. We do have some great roads here that let me really push the car and it never disappoints. Handles amazingly in sport mode. Rides nice y in tour and is in my opinion one of the best looking cars on the road. I will buy the V this year ( A coupe with a stick, n ot enough with the 2.0 T) before they are gone!!!

Chariotoflove > Matt 08/14/2018 at 12:02

0

I identify with the attraction to something different from the cliche everyone else has.  That’s part of why I drive a K900.  Unfortunately, many of the people driving those entry level lux sedans have the exact opposite motivation.  They want to be judged and approved by the standards of their peers, rather than any Standard of the World ™.

Arrivederci > LJ909 08/14/2018 at 14:04

1

I liked the ATS until I got to know it. Even considered buying one for quite some time, specifically the 2.0T Performance.

That said, once I looked closely, I knew I’d never get past that horrific gauge cluster and the interior proportions are all just way off. It feels smaller inside that it really needs to be and the backseat is hardly more useful than the one in my old BRZ.

However, if a cheap ATS-V sedan comes my way with a six-speed manual, I might just have to deal with it ;).