I'm going going, back back to Honda Honda (UPDATE: Nope!)

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
07/29/2018 at 14:40 • Filed to: None

My wife and I went to the Honda dealer yesterday to check out both the HR-V and CR-V as !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . We didn’t quite finish the process yesterday but there may well be a CR-V in our future.

FLIP THE BEAT YO.

To recap that previous post about why were’ replacing her Impreza, there are two main reasons:

It’s a lease, and that lease ends in April 2019. We moved from Wisconsin to Maryland recently and when registering a car from another state in Maryland, if that other state’s sales tax rate is lower than Maryland’s, Maryland makes you pay the difference in sales tax from when you originally bought the car. MD sales tax is 6% vs. 5% in WI, so we’d have to pay 1% sales tax on the original purchase price of her Impreza now to register it, and then next spring we’d have another big chunk of sales tax, whether we buy out her Impreza at the end of the lease, or buy/lease something else. We have 60 days from when we got our MD licenses to register our cars here before there’s an even bigger tax penalty. I registered my car already because my WI tags were expiring and I wasn’t going to flip it anyway, but her WI tags are good through December, so we were waiting til closer to the end of the 60 days to get her MD tags so we could spread out the spending. Then she came up with the idea of flipping the Impreza now to avoid the double dip sales tax. Honestly the thought never would’ve occurred to me. She’s a smart lady.

She’s started to feel like her Impreza is too small and low to the ground. It has nice big windows with great visibility, but it’s too open and airy for her and she feels exposed. Even though Subarus are extremely safe, she’s been wanting something higher up off the ground where she feels more ensconced on the car.

The Forester was at the top of her list, except she really wants Android Auto, and the 2018 Forester is still on the old Impreza platform and doesn’t have the new dash with Android Auto. The 2019 will be on the new platform but it’s not going to be out in time for us to flip the Impreza before the additional MD tax penalty kicks in.

I suggested to her that we go to the Subaru dealer to see about a Crosstrek, because Subaru has extra tricks available to keep you in the brand on your next car. While the new Crosstrek is only a couple inches bigger than her 2016 Impreza, but it’s higher off the ground, has a bit smaller windows, Android Auto, etc. But out in our travels, I pointed out a new Crosstrek to her, and she hated all the tacked-on black plastic cladding. Which is exactly the same reason we got an Impreza instead of the Crosstrek the last time. So off the list it went.

From there, we were trying to decide between going to Nissan or Honda. I discovered that in addition to the Rogue and CR-V having the options mixes she wanted (Android Auto, active safety gizmos, auto-dim mirror and non-leather seats), the same applied to the HR-V and Rogue Sport. I figured the Hondas are nicer but Nissan has COME ON DOWN SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY FOR SCREAMING DEALS lease programs. We went to Honda first.

She looked at both the HR-V and CR-V in the showroom, and felt much more comfortable with the size of the HR-V. So we took one out on a test drive. But then we discovered that the Android Auto and safety gizmos are only on the 2019 HR-V, not the 2018. They checked their upcoming inventory, and their first 2019 HR-V shipment arrives mid-September, after our window for doing this car flip closes. My wife was still tempted to try and go for the 2018, but after we talked about it some more, we decided that no, those features are important to her and we shouldn’t give them up to get an HR-V right now.

On the plus side, we had them look at the trade value, and their opening offer was higher than the lease payoff, so we know that we can in fact flip her car for something else and make financial sense of this idea of hers. Nice.

Both I and the sales guy suggested she check out the CR-V next. I told her even though it felt a little bigger than she wanted, it’s a lot more quick and powerful than the HR-V while returning similar mileage. She has been saying she’s looking for something quicker than her Impreza. Nothing crazy fast but more acceleration would be good. The CR-V also has real climate control knobs and buttons, and a volume knob, unlike the blasted capacitive touch controls in the HR-V.

The sales guy mentioned the money factors on CR-V leases are better than HR-V right now so we may actually close the gap on payments anyway. But she was done with car shopping for the day and wanted to get the hell out of there, so we agreed to come back tomorrow (i.e. today).

The Nissan dealer was just a couple blocks away, so on our way home, I got her to agree to at least go in the lot and peek at the size of the Rogue and Rogue Sport to see what she thought. Of course, she liked the size of the Rogue Sport better.

Interestingly enough, the sticker price on a Rogue Sport SV with the tech package (to get active cruise, among other options) is actually higher than a CR-V EX. The lease deal might come out better thanks to Nissan’s wild-n-crazy incentives, but the Rouge Sport back seat and trunk are less roomy than the HR-V, apparently. Maybe even worse than the Impreza. We can easily ferry around another couple in the back of the Impreza and we’d like to keep that capability. The Rogue Sport is also just as slow as the Impreza and HR-V.

When we got home, my wife saw our neighbor’s current-gen CR-V in the exact color she likes, and said, “out here it doesn’t look so big, it was just in the showroom jammed up with all those other cars it seemed bigger.” So she got excited about the idea and pored over the brochure last night.

We’re going back to the Honda dealer today at noon, and hopefully working out a deal. We may not actually take the car home today however, because the auto-dim mirror is a dealer accessory they’d have to install, and this particular Honda dealer puts goddamn pinstripes on EVERY FUCKING CAR ON THEIR LOT. Needless to say, pinstripe and dealer badge removal will be conditions of the purchase. Maybe they can get all that off the car and the mirror on the car today, but we’ll see.

UPDATE:

We checked out the CR-V today. My wife liked the extra power, the handling, and the interior. She felt like the dash and hood were taller than ideal but she could live with it. We tried to work out a deal, but no such luck.

When we got her Subaru, the way they run their lease specials, the special applies to the whole range for that model. You have to get the base model to get the $199/month or whatever they’re advertising, but if you get more options, the same terms apply, the payment just goes up relative to the purchase price.

Honda is running a $269/month deal on the CR-V LX, but that’s only for the LX. All other trims there’s no special at all. We’d be paying over $100/month more than on her Impreza even though the sticker price on the CR-V EX is only like a grand more than her Impreza was. Oh well.

Next stop: another car dealer that is also not Nissan.

DISCUSSION (63)

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 10:49

Nice! Please don’t buy a Nissan. Especially a Quashqa i

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 11:02

CR-V gang......but that’s a good choice for sure. What trim level? And also I thought the auto dim mirror was a factory option like on their website? And fuck those pinstripes, it seems to be a common thing these dealers do unfortunately.

WilliamsSW > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 11:17

Nice!! My stepmother has a CRV, and it’s really nice - not the top trim, either, but it just nice, and pretty loaded with features for the price IMHO.

Plus it does 0- 60 in about 5. 5 seconds, or so I’ve read...

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 11:30

The latest-generation CR-V is excellent. With the trim shop job I’ve spent plenty of wheel time with all of the CUVs in that class. The Hyundai Tucson is also good but in DC area traffic the DCT can get annoying. I know it wasn’t fun in lake Norman. The RAV4 and Rogue feel dated but not bad. Nissan’s CVT sucks. The Honda CVT is surprisingly good. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise since they’ve been making them since the 70s. Paired with the 1.5t in the EX and upper trims it just works. It’s my opinion that a good automatic transmission should work without me noticing it much. Honda’s CVT is like that. It seems - at least behind the 1.5 - to be tuned for a balance between power and economy.

If it’s in the budget, a blue touring with the brown interior is a great choice.

jvirgs drives a Subaru > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 11:51

Did you look at the Outback?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
07/29/2018 at 12:17

What's wrong with the cumquat?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
07/29/2018 at 12:21

75% name, 25% everything else. Crossover, Nissan, ugly, cvt

Textured Soy Protein > HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
07/29/2018 at 13:44

We’re going EX to get the gizmos she wants but with cloth seats. Auto-dim mirror is standard on the EX-L and not listed as an official accessory for the EX on the Honda website, but the dealer says they can add it.

Textured Soy Protein > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
07/29/2018 at 14:08

She specifically wants to avoid leather so we're looking at an EX.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
07/29/2018 at 14:08

Well maybe all it needs is a large spoiler and some fuzzy dice to be better!

Textured Soy Protein > jvirgs drives a Subaru
07/29/2018 at 14:09

Nah, it’s too big for what she wants and she doesn’t like the monstrous roof rack they stick on top to make it feel taller.

His Stigness > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 14:11

Were they cool about taking the pinstriping and free advertising off, or did they say they would, "look into it."

Textured Soy Protein > His Stigness
07/29/2018 at 14:43

They were fine about that but we ended up not getting it. (I just updated the post with why.)

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 14:45

What kind of penalty will you suffer for breaking the existing lease, if any?

His Stigness > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 14:51

I read that before this comment.

That’s really dumb. It’s not just Subaru, VW did the same thing with the e-Golf. I don’t get why Honda would do things ass backward .

M.T. Blake > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 15:18

No looking at the Mazda CX-5? We loved ours. Of course I sold it for 50% what I paid, 5 years and 40k miles later... residual value Honda has what Mazda doesn’t!

Textured Soy Protein > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
07/29/2018 at 15:26

No penalty as long as we get more for our trade than the payoff on the lease. The Honda dealer offered more than the payoff.

Textured Soy Protein > M.T. Blake
07/29/2018 at 15:26

I’m at a Mazda dealer right now actually.

Textured Soy Protein > His Stigness
07/29/2018 at 15:29

I think it’s because the CR-V LX has the old 2.4 NA motor or whatever it is, and the EX gets you the 1.5 turbo and some more options for not much more on the sticker price. Financing the prices are much closer but leasing, the deals are only on the LX.

Cash Rewards > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 15:33

If you don’t go home with a Miata I’ll be disappointed

trmoore09 > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 15:34

CX-5. DO IT

Textured Soy Protein > trmoore09
07/29/2018 at 15:49

I just drove one without her. It’s nice. I don’t love that Android Auto will be added at some unspecified point down the road but can live with that. It all comes down to numbers. We got a kick-ass deal on her Impreza.

Textured Soy Protein > Cash Rewards
07/29/2018 at 15:50

I sat in one in the showroom for kicks but no, it will not be joining my fleet.

Sovande > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 16:10

Is the outback bigger than the CR-V? Of so, that seems pretty wild.

Textured Soy Protein > Sovande
07/29/2018 at 16:24

The CR-V is a little taller. The Outback is almost a foot longer and has a ridiculously huge roof rack to increase its visual height.

AestheticsInMotion > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 16:42

Lift the imprezza

M.T. Blake > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 16:45

They have 0% for 60 months if I remember.

Textured Soy Protein > AestheticsInMotion
07/29/2018 at 17:01

I’d have to un-lift it next April and that doesn't help us dodge taxes.

Textured Soy Protein > M.T. Blake
07/29/2018 at 17:03

We’re leasing. Their lease deals apply across all trim levels though, unlike the CR-V. I checked it out first without her because she had to do stuff but but she finished with that earlier than she expected so she joined me. She liked the CX-5 more than the CR-V, and t hey ran some preliminary numbers which are in the ballpark. Going back next weekend probably to finish the deal.

M.T. Blake > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 17:52

Nice! They definitely have a more ‘sporty’ and ‘young’ image than the CRV. Too many blue hairs driving CRVs. Honda has a lot of perks, mainly the resale but if you’re leasing who cares. Mileage is what you’re concerned with!

Under_Score > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 17:57

The EX is so much better than the LX that I don’t even know the purpose of the LX in 2018. Why not just purchase, though? My parents paid off their CR-V in a year and a half, but they were on track to have it paid off in three. With Honda’s reputation, it’ll be worth it to buy one. I’m a materialistic person and I like nice things, but for a car as advanced and safe as the new CR-V, it’ll be worth it to own over the course of 5+ years or so.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 18:01

I’d still recommend the VW Alltrack. It’s a great car, and the ergonomics are better then the CX-5. If VW does anything very VERY right it’s ergonomics.

While I’m biased to the Alltrack because it’s a wagon ( AKA not a CUV)- the Tiguan is also an EXCELLENT choice- the 2018 Tiguan is brand spanking new for this year, and is a fantastic car.

UncleStoopnikie > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 18:20

Why do a lot of wome n feel safer from being higher off the ground when the exact inverse is true? This is very common in America. American women looooooove SUVs more than anyone.

Textured Soy Protein > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
07/29/2018 at 21:25

I popped in to the VW dealer recently. The lease programs aren’t quite where I need them to be. With the same equipment the Tiguan is a couple grand cheaper than the Alltrack. But both of them will lease out at higher than we’re looking to spend.

Based on my wife’s reaction to the CR-V, HR-V and CX-5, I have a feeling she wouldn’t like the Tiguan. She felt like the CR-V was too big. It’s only a couple inches bigger than the CX-5 but the dash is really tall and the top of the hood is also tall, where it has kinda bulges up towards the sides like a Corvette or Miata or whatever. She felt like her view was obstructed. She was very comfortable with the size of the HR-V, and also felt like the CX-5 was more her speed because the view out the front was more to her liking. The Tiguan is a good bit bigger than the CR-V, so even if it were magically leasing out at the payment we want, I don’t think she’d like it.

Textured Soy Protein > Under_Score
07/29/2018 at 21:27

We’re leasing because her miles are very low and we’re not trying to spend much out of pocket right now. We moved halfway across the country a few months ago into a bigger house than we used to have. Between moving costs, buying a bunch of furniture, and living in a more expensive place, we don’t want to make a big down payment or increase our monthly fixed costs.

Textured Soy Protein > M.T. Blake
07/29/2018 at 21:29

Good resale value helps when leasing in case you want to get out of the car before the end of the lease. Both her Impreza and her previous Civic we were able to do that because the trade value was higher than the lease payoff. I’ve only leased one car for myself, a BMW, which they kept the payments low on by artificially inflating the residual value. That keeps the difference between the sale price and residual smaller, which makes the payments lower, but it also makes the payoff higher. I tried to get out of it a few months early but my trade value was like $3k below the payoff amount so I couldn’t.

Textured Soy Protein > UncleStoopnikie
07/29/2018 at 21:49

SUVs are self-propagating because the more of them there are on the road, the more people feel like other vehicles are towering over them and they can’t see the road around them. In her case, she knows her Impreza is very safe with Subaru’s crash structures etc. But the problem is the great visibility, which personally I like a lot, makes her feel exposed, like there’s too much glass around her, and she wants to feel like the car is more protecting her with higher door sills and such. Plus she likes to get in to a car that’s higher up

In my wife’s defense, she actually felt like the CR-V was bigger than she wants. She liked the size of the HR-V better. The CX-5 worked for her too, it’s not that much smaller but it feels smaller because of the swoopier styling. The CR-V has a really high cowl and the hood/fenders bump up into your view on the sides.

My lowered BMW coupe is way down on the ground compared to most cars. Sometimes when s he rides in it with me at night she goes WHY DO ALL THESE CARS COMING AT US HAVE THEIR BRIGHTS ON??? and I have to remind her we’re lower down to the ground so the headlights are in our face.

M.T. Blake > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 22:28

Good to know. I’ve never leased. My buddy leases Camry’s and always complains about his mileage limits.

Sovande > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 22:35

Wow. I had no idea it was that big. I mean it looks huge, but I didn't realize it was that huge...

trmoore09 > Textured Soy Protein
07/29/2018 at 22:54

Ah gotcha. We love ours, but we have a GT AWD pretty fully loaded. I’m not sure how the lesser trim ones would stack up vs competition. We traded in our 16 for an 18 and it’s much nicer, and far less wind/road noise.

Textured Soy Protein > M.T. Blake
07/29/2018 at 23:06

My wife has put 15k miles on her Impreza in 27 months.

Textured Soy Protein > trmoore09
07/29/2018 at 23:07

The Touring has all the stuff she wants on it and she also liked it. The only feature it lacks that we could use is memory for the driver’s seat for when I drive it and she wants to get her seat settings back. But whatever, that’s far from a dealbreaker. She wants no leather seats (we’re vegan) so the Touring is our move with its fake leather/suede combo.

M.T. Blake > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 00:38

Yeah you’ll be fine. You guys drive about as much as I do.

Jake > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 02:44

Subaru’s are the best cars to lease. Mf and residuals are really good. However, keep shopping Honda dealers, they can get that EX lease price down. They can’t change the residual but they are likely adding points to the MF. Get them down to the par MF and make sure they’re not adding to it. Check Honda forums or edmunds forums to discover base MF. Then work them down to $500 below invoice or so on the cap cost. Don’t give up on a Honda CR-V quite yet. These posters are right, Honda’s are great cars and great to lease. Background, I’ve leased over 20 cars between mine and my wife’s. Never kept a single one 3 years. Lease buyout on all of them. Great way to roll when you want a new car every year, avoid the sales tax on purchase price. I always made out ahead on lease buyout on Honda’s and Toyota’s. Subaru is even better tho. But the wife wants what she wants and you’re not making a mistake with a crv, it’s a great choice.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake
07/30/2018 at 09:59

I’ve also leased several cars before. I know how it works. We were at the lowest MF, invoice, etc etc. I told them exactly what our payment on the Impreza was and they were like $120/month higher . They even were stretching it out to 39 or 48 months to try to bring the payment down but nope.

This is all a moot point now. We checked out a CX-5 afterward and she likes it a lot than the CR-V.

Gerry197 > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 12:29

I have to say, I recently got stuck with a sedan for a week and I didn’t like the effort I needed to get in and out, especially in a tight spot.

Trust me, as you get older, the entry/exit of a vehicle becomes very important.

As for ride height, I don’t honestly notice it anymore. Whether I’m driving a low slung sedan, suv or fullsize truck, it get acclimated almost instantly, I don’t really notice a vehicles height when I’m driving regardless of what it is.

functionoverfashion > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 12:46

My wife was going down this same path with a replacement for her ‘07 X3. She drives ~40 miles each way on the highway to work, and doesn’t like to be down low for these reasons. BUT. She drove a 2015 Mini (4-door Cooper S) and loved it. It gives her the feeling of safety she likes, because the doors are up near her shoulders and the pillars are thick, yet the visibility is still quite good - it’s just not that big! I might remove the center rear headrest, because no human will ever sit in the middle rear seat - the rear window is kinda small and she said it’s not the best rear visibility when backing out of the driveway. Highway it’s ok, but WTF, that headreast is dead weight.

If you wanted a little higher ride height and/or more legroom, the Countryman has both; the Clubman is the longer platform but isn’t as tall.

I kind of can’t believe she went for it, but there is a degree of safety in being able to out-maneuver everything else on the highway around you. She’s had it a week and loves it more every day.

Textured Soy Protein > functionoverfashion
07/30/2018 at 12:51

My wife likes the Countryman too but we don’t want to spend the extra money on lease payment, insurance and premium fuel which is well over $3/gallon in our area.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 12:52

I will admit the Tiguan can be imposing from the outside- especially on the showroom floor, and when you look at the first generation next to the all new generation, the new Tiguan LOOKS so much bigger, but in reality it’s not that big when you see them on the road.

Shame the last generation Tiguan didn’t have android auto, as that would be a perfect fit.

Sounds like your wife basically wants a lifted hatchback. If you can compromise on the ride height, the Golf/GTI is an excellent choice, and I know my dad just got one helluva deal on a brand new mk7.5 GTI (well- he bought it, not leased).

Besides: Hatchback > CUV

Textured Soy Protein > Gerry197
07/30/2018 at 12:53

I have to perform minor acrobatics to get into my car. Usually it’s no big deal, except when I’m in a narrow parking space with not enough room to fully open the long coupe doors. I can still do it though. I'm 35 and athletic and flexible.

Gerry197 > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 12:59

Wait until you hit 40 and still have to move around car seats, you may start to feel differently then.

It’s totally worth it on my “weekend” fun car, but less so everyday in my commuter in tight parking spots at work and elsewhere.

functionoverfashion > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 13:04

Ah, gotcha. I’m thinking the regular 4-door Cooper S is in the same price range (it probably is) but then forgetting the Countryman is several levels up no doubt.

Stapleface > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 13:07

Have you checked out the Hyundai Tuscon or Ford Ecosport? They both have pretty good lease deals going on for them right now.

https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/best-lease-deals

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 13:54

You’re headed in the right direction. CX-5 and CR-V are both great choices, just a matter of finding the right deal that works for your wallet.

My wife is currently in a Crosstrek, and with a baby at home now I can see that it won’t last us for too long. With a roof box it’s fine for roadtrips too, but the inside is pretty crammed (and only 2 outboard seats can take a car seat which means only one adult can sit in the back realistically). We may stick with Subaru just given that we can make timing work and wait for the new Forester (although I hate how it looks, at least in pictures) – but otherwise I think the current gen CR-V is a great vehicle. A coworker has one and it’s a wonderful place to be, drives nicely, and has great safety equipment. Can’t beat Subaru in the PNW for resale value, but the Honda comes close too.

CX-5 would be my vote but it’s probably too small for our needs and wife didn’t like the last gen when we tested it against the Crosstrek – because steering and suspension felt too sporty. Sacrilege!

ultimum2000 > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 15:12

Why not just get another impreza, the new ones are slightly higher

Textured Soy Protein > ultimum2000
07/30/2018 at 15:27

Not different enough.

Textured Soy Protein > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
07/30/2018 at 15:32

The CR-V is much more useful and practical than the CX-5. It feels nicer than stuff from Nissan and Toyota. I’d describe how it drives as competent but not exactly natural or smooth. It doesn’t lean much in turns but there’s a non-linearity to how it feels in turns, like it changes directions, leans over, then stops leaning and takes the turn.

The CX-5 is less space-efficient inside and gets worse mileage, but it is much more natural feeling to drive. It’s not a sports car but it’s more satisfying and predictable around town than the CR-V. It also feels more premium and looks better.

Between the two, the CR-V is the more rational choice. Especially if buying rather than leasing. But with Honda's lack of lease incentives vs. Mazda, the CX-5 is wwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy cheaper to lease.

Textured Soy Protein > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
07/30/2018 at 15:34

The Tiguan is 5 inches longer than the CR-V that she thought was a little too big. On our way out of the Honda dealer I had her sit in a Civic hatchback and she was thoroughly uninterested.

Textured Soy Protein > Gerry197
07/30/2018 at 15:35

When I'm 40 I fully intend to continue out-working those 20-something whippersnappers at the gym like I do now.

Textured Soy Protein > functionoverfashion
07/30/2018 at 15:40

A Countryman S ALL4 with the automatic starts at $35k and goes up from there to get the active safety gizmos. She refuses to drive a car that runs on premium, and I (and our bank account) am fine with her sticking to that.

Textured Soy Protein > Stapleface
07/30/2018 at 15:41

We like the Tucson but you have to get leather seats to get the active safety gizmos she wants. That’s changing for 2019 but not in time for us to dodge taxes.

The EcoSport is a POS.

Gerry197 > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 15:47

I hear ya, I need to stop being lazy and get out there!

functionoverfashion > Textured Soy Protein
07/30/2018 at 15:56

gotcha. I also have never bought a new car, or leased one... so I’m not much help here!