Monday Confession: What is Your Unpopular Car Opinion?

"Michael Cohen" (hofmeisterkinky) 07/09/2018 at 10:16 • Filed to: None

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After a weekend of sinning it’s time to come clean. What is your unpopular car opinion? Do you prefer front wheel drive? Think the Aztek was kinda cool looking? Or do you have some other unorthodox view on something with four wheels. Pull up a chair to the  proverbial Oppo bar and let us know. Pictures get bonus points. I’ll do one to get us started. The Corvette C3 was better when they took off the chrome bumpers.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:30

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Au tomatics are just fine.

Not a Sunburst Miata > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:31

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I don’t see the need for a car that has 500+ HP as a daily driver. When my BRZ was NA, it was perfect at 205 crank HP. Even now, turbo with 300 whp, its more than I need.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:31

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The CrossCab is cool. 

Spanfeller is a twat > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:32

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I rather like this car.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:32

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That four doors is the correct minimum number of doors.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:32

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The first gen Oldsmobile Aurora and 1995-1999 Buick Riviera were revolutionary designs and influenced car styling to this day. Eschewing hard edges and boxy lines for the curved panels and lines we still use to this day. They weren’t the first, but I’d argue that GM doing it for mainstream cars made everyone else realize that it worked for more than just sports cars.

Also I love asking people to look up what else was on the car lot at the time they debuted and it's hilarious to see the oh so 80s boxy designs they still had. It really did change everything for GM on the style front.

razorbeamteam > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:35

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Bigger wheels and smaller tires is a bad thing to do to a car you like. 

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:39

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With few exceptions, mainstream German cars are really boring.  Especially BMWs.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:41

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I like commie cars and classic euro city cars and ecoboxes...so things most people find cheap, boring or poor quality!

CobraJoe > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/09/2018 at 10:42

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I have the exact opposite opinion.  2 doors are underrated as passenger cars. 

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:42

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I don’t like the look of Single Cab Pickup trucks. Especially if it is a longbed

Looks...unfinished. Maybe it’s the proportions .

Unless it’s this thing

crowmolly > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:44

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Putting aside their history on the street...

The guys on Street Outlaws don’t get enough respect for their skills as tuners and racers in the automotive community.

djmt1 > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:45

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I prefer 4 doors over 2 door in pretty much every case.

punkgoose17 > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:48

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The Renault Dauphine was better than the VW Beetle.

PT Cruisers are good cars.

Under_Score > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:51

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I need to quote tweet this and get 50,000 retweets and 150,000 likes.

Darkbrador > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 10:57

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oh, where do I start ...

- the Boxster is the best Porsche

- all Porsches are glorified Beetles. And it’s a good thing.

- drifting sucks

- small cars are the best cars

- nobody needs 400 or 500 hp in a road car. 99% of the people who have 500 hp on tap aren’t skilled e nough to manage it.

- older Nissan 300Z are not good looking , weird proportions, too long and not wide enough

- legalize motorcycle split lanes

- ...

InFierority Complex > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:02

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There’s no difference between Cars & Coffee and actual Car Shows. They’re both kinda trash.

Michael Cohen > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/09/2018 at 11:03

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First gen Ford Taurus would like to word with this post. 

Michael Cohen > Darkbrador 07/09/2018 at 11:04

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You’re doing the Lord’s work here but pace yourself. This might be a thing I do every week. 

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > InFierority Complex 07/09/2018 at 11:05

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I used to live somewhere and the cars and coffe was a really informal group of cars in an underutilized parking lot next to a coffee stand. Very chill. Drive anything to the event and park it; no rules.

I moved somewhere recently and it’s a whole freaking production. They screen cars and about 1/2 of people have to park off site. 

Michael Cohen > djmt1 07/09/2018 at 11:06

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Long coupes can be tricky like in the hands of the BMW 4 series designer.

WilliamsSW > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:10

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Despite being a GM fanboy in my younger days, I have never really likes the 1970+ Camero/ Firebird, or any C3+ Corvette. I get why other people like   them, but hate the seating position and would never own any of them. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:10

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Things that suck:

All GM cars, Modern Pickups.

That should do it.

Sovande > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:13

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BMW hasn’t made a good looking car since 1995. 

Hamtractor > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:22

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Second generation Cameron is best Camaro.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Spanfeller is a twat 07/09/2018 at 11:31

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Current gen actually looks so much better. Haven’t seen one in person, but looks a million times better than the last version, and dare I say…attractive?

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:32

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I kinda like the Nissan Kicks, it’s a lot better than many of the other drab new cars available in Canada for $18k (Yaris 5-door, Versa Note, Accent, etc).

Vicente Esteve > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:33

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The Skyline is mostly popular because it wasn’t available in the US.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:39

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I’m a city-dwelling snowflake liberal huppie (yuppie in appearance, santa cruz hippie in mindset) who has zero experience “mudding” or “off-roading” or any such thing, and has zero real NEED for a truck…but I would really love to have a Colorado ZR2 with the 2.8 diesel.

Just look at that thing! I will be one of those people who never, ever uses even close to 20% of the vehicle’s capabilities, but the diesel offers reasonable gas mileage, it has a usable interior (not amazing but at least has AA/Carplay), the bed would come in handy for yard work and home improvements (all 2 days of the year we do such things!), and the offroad prowess will certainly come in handy pulling in to the parking spot at drive-up campsites!

p.s. - yes, Doug DeMuro infected me with this sickness.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:40

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Miatas are overrated and unexciting. 

Spanfeller is a twat > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 07/09/2018 at 11:41

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I’ve sat in one. Can confirm it’s amazing. This only needs the M550i treatment and it’ll become my dream daily (how broken am I as an individual is yet to be discussed)

nermal > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:42

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The BMW 6-series Gran Coupe is not only the best looking BMW, but one of the best looking cars on the road - with the caveat that you need to see it in person . It doesn’t photograph well.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:53

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Ah yes, the first gen taurus - the sedan designed entirely with a straight edge.....held at an angle! Oooooooo! So curvy!

But in all seriousness yes the taurus was a step forward but it didn’t get over rectangular headlights and design until the late 90s. It was a rounded rectangle with a rhombus for a face but it is still very boxy. It drove a hell of a lot better than the other sedans of the time though. So if you want to claim  it modernized how sedans should drive. ..I’d buy that for a dollar.

Tristan > InFierority Complex 07/09/2018 at 11:58

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It’s wings dingas with crybaby dolls at one, douchebros with flat brims and Vapes at the other. I go to C+C about once every 2 months. I walk though quickly looking at the cars, and I leave having spoken to no one.

CobraJoe > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 11:58

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Crew cab trucks are good.

Tristan > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/09/2018 at 11:59

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Your van has 3. Back doors don't count!

Tristan > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 12:06

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The 3/4 ton Suburban is the best possible all-rounder despite the abhorrent fuel economy.

I’d rock the shit out of a 2.4 turbo manual PT Cruiser convertible.

The Jeep XJ is a poorly built shitbox.

The Jeep 4.0 isn’t that great.

Brand loyalty is stupid.

Communism doesn't work.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Darkbrador 07/09/2018 at 12:08

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I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 12:09

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Jellybean Ford is best Ford.

just-a-scratch > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/09/2018 at 12:12

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HERESY! STONE HIM !

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > CobraJoe 07/09/2018 at 12:12

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I would tease you and say that you are incorrect.

For me, it’s all about a pragmatic view of the automobile. At some level, it is a tool, more than a toy. I am a social guy, and four doors lets me ride around in a car with others. That’s what it’s really about. My dream performance car is the Cadillac CTS-V or a restored ‘96  Impala SS. A sedan makes a statement about me: family guy, social guy.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Tristan 07/09/2018 at 12:14

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But is a van a car? I would argue that strictly speaking, it is not.

just-a-scratch > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 12:14

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The 1992 base model Chevy Cavalier was a good car.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 12:19

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I think electric power steering is better than hydraulic.

Jay, the practical enthusiast > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 12:26

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Minivans are awesome! Especially if you have kids between the ages of 0 and 10.

Long-Voyager > Hamtractor 07/09/2018 at 12:33

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You misspelled Camero

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/09/2018 at 12:34

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Only when mated to a full 8' bed:

Because any less is pointless.

Long-Voyager > Jay, the practical enthusiast 07/09/2018 at 12:35

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I’m with you. 

My bird IS the word > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 12:35

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Automatics aren't that bad.

CobraJoe > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/09/2018 at 12:40

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I am a social guy, and four doors lets me ride around in a car with others.

It’s not the lack of extra doors that stops people from riding in the back of modern coupes, it’s the tiny back seat. It’s rare, but there are 2 door cars out there that have a large and comfy back seat.

I once hauled 4 people (including myself) in a Lincoln Mark VIII. Considering it’s not a large car inside, all 4 people were comfortable and got in and out reasonably easy (considering the low roof).

Personally, I’d love something like a ‘ 96 Impala SS coupe. Comfy back seat, no B pillar to get in the way of my arm or to block my view. 

Michael Cohen > Under_Score 07/09/2018 at 12:47

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I spend a lot of time on Twitter. Its a very Twitter-ish post but unfortunately automotive Twitter is lame whereas Oppo...

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/09/2018 at 12:54

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Hard disagree.

A short bed crew cab is already a huge vehicle. Even in the wide open suburbs of Omaha, it gets a bit cramped with my shortbed Titan. Adding to the length and turning circle is only going to cause more troubles.

Besides, that short bed is still pretty damn useful. I have yet to feel the need for a longer bed, though I haven’t hauled any lumber yet.

Plus I can actually fit my short bed crew cab Titan fully inside my garage. 

Darkbrador > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 07/09/2018 at 12:57

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nerd_racing > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 13:17

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Europe and much of the rest of the world has it right, everything is hatchback and much smaller.  

Tristan > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/09/2018 at 13:25

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Technicalities.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > CobraJoe 07/09/2018 at 13:29

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That whole thing of maneuvering around the front seat and the front seat occupant has to move so the backseater can get in and out is sucks. And large cars built as coupes have absurdly long and heavy doors.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Tristan 07/09/2018 at 13:30

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KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > just-a-scratch 07/09/2018 at 13:40

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I’ll take all the weed you have, Brah. Please stone me!

CobraJoe > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/09/2018 at 13:43

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Getting out of the front seat to let the person out of the back isn’t that big of a deal, unless you’re constantly picking up and dropping off people in different places. If you’re all piling in and out at the same location, it doesn’t really matter (other than the slight inconvenience of climbing in to the back).

And large doors are awesome. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > CobraJoe 07/09/2018 at 13:53

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Age could be a factor here.

Hamtractor > Long-Voyager 07/09/2018 at 13:58

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Cameron was the name (bestowed by my ex-girlfriend) of my 1988 IROC back in the day, lol. Ever since, every Camero is a Cameron...

Under_Score > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 14:20

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I don’t even go to automotive Twitter. I just think about the trend of “Quote Tweet with Your Unpopular Opinion” in late May that really blew up, got annoying, then faded out.

CobraJoe > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/09/2018 at 14:34

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True, but my parents in law were the ones riding in the back of the Lincoln, and I’ve strapped 2 car seats in the back of a ‘88 Thunderbird.  If I had to do either everyday, I’d probably accept a 4 door instead, but for a fun car, 2 door is better. 

just-a-scratch > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/09/2018 at 15:15

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I don’t think you could handle it with that s hort pickup bed.

j/k   I don't have any. 

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/09/2018 at 16:09

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Eh, I don’t have any problems maneuvering mine around parking lots, driving in the city, or parallel parking.

Then again, I see people who can’t handle a compact car in tight quarters, so maybe it’s not an issue of the vehicle.  

Michael Cohen > Sovande 07/09/2018 at 16:16

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Ahem

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/09/2018 at 16:39

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I definitely don’t have a problem maneuvering large vehicles. (Never bothered to try parallel parking my dad’s grain truck though...). But for me the disadvantages of having a longer vehicle far outweigh the advantages in cargo space.

I mean, a full 8' bed could carry a sheet of 4x8 with the tail gate closed, but I’d much rather be able to park in the garage and avoid scraping windows or hail damage. 

Sovande > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 16:41

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Meh.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Michael Cohen 07/09/2018 at 16:59

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AWD >> RWD, even on sports cars.

/snowbelt

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/10/2018 at 06:53

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Sounds to me like you just need a bigger garage. ;)

The things I do with a truck, anything smaller than an 8' bed and I might as well just use a trailer, at which point, the truck isn’t needed.

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/10/2018 at 09:09

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Hey, no argument here, but it took a long time to find an affordable 3 car garage in any size, and there’s no room on the property to add on.

Just know that calling a short bed “useless” is completely wrong.  I’ve hauled 1200 pounds of gravel, a couch, and a brand new completely oversized sectional in the back of my 67in short bed.  Even a full size van would have a hard time carrying any of those inside. 

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/10/2018 at 10:10

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Not hating on you man, I just find shortbeds completely useless. I can carry anything a shortbed can carry in the back of my van with the rear seats out, loads of 8' boards with the seats in.

When I buy a truck, an 8' bed is a requirement. 

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/10/2018 at 10:41

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I can carry anything a shortbed can carry in the back of my van with the rear seats out,

Except, you know, the specific things I mentioned that wouldn’t fit in the back of a van. The 1200 pounds of gravel, or a giant sectional that came in 3 huge boxes. (Maybe the previously mentioned couch could have fit, but it was over 8ft long).

Ok, a van could carry that much loose gravel, but it’d be a huge pain in the ass to load it and unload it (and you’d have gravel all over the inside of your van).

What exactly do you require an 8 foot bed for?

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/10/2018 at 12:13

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Hauled 1200+ lbs of m ulch in mine twice already and a 1500lb load of black dirt . Lay down a tarp, load it up, unload it, drag out tarp, mess gone.

Couches, snowblowers, chairs, lumber, engines, etc have all been in my van. For things that don’t fit, I have a trailer.

I buy a truck to put things in the bed. If I have to waste time tying/strapping things in, I may as well use a trailer. So lumber, drywall, plywood etc, 8ft bed. Couches and other furniture, 8ft bed. It’s a convenience factor. Why buy a truck if I have to tie everything in because my bed is too short?

The other advantages of the longer wheelbase:

1. Better Ride.

2. More stable when towing/hauling.

3. IMO looks better.

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/10/2018 at 13:57

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You do realize that you can’t get a 8' box in a half ton crew cab truck, right? You have to step up to a $46k F250 to get a long bed crew cab. Of course an F250 is going to tow better than a half ton. That’s a lot to pay for the convenience of carrying 5 adults and not tying down your cargo.

Hauled 1200+lbs of mulch in mine twice already and a 1500lb load of black dirt. Lay down a tarp, load it up, unload it, drag out tarp, mess gone.

Did the same in the back of my truck. It doesn’t contain the whole mess, e specially with sand or gravel. I washed and swept my truck bed afterwards , and I still can find bits of gravel in the back if I look hard enough.

Why buy a truck if I have to tie everything in because my bed is too short?

Because with a truck, you don’t need to shovel dirt or mulch inside your passenger space, a skid loader can dump it straight in. Because with a truck you don’t need to use a trailer to haul oversized things, and trailers require parking space, plates, and aren’t free either, and you would still need to tie things down . Because you’d never need to reconfigure your vehicle to haul cargo vs people.

Because even the short box will haul more than you could fit inside your minivan, and it doesn’t need to sacrifice passenger space to do so.

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/10/2018 at 14:08

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Sorry to reply twice to the same comment, but this is exactly why liking crew cab half ton trucks is controversial.

Around here it’s either: “Crew cabs are never used like trucks, you should just get a car!” or “You don’t have a real truck unless it’s a longbox!”

Both of those statements are complete BS. 

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/10/2018 at 16:17

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IDK about all that. I can fit lumber in my van without tying down and without sacrificing cargo space. There is also no trace of what I hauled left after simply dragging out the tarp and giving a quick vacuum.

Anything I can’t fit inside goes in my simple trailer. The cost of a trailer+van is still cheaper than a 1/2 ton truck for a coupling with more utility and better mileage. Parking isn’t much of an issue as the tighter turning radius makes throwing in tight spots a breeze. Payload is only about 200lbs different between the van and most 1/2 tons, so saying you can haul more with the 1/2 ton is trivial at best.

A basic Crew Cab 1/2 ton will run you around $40k. IMO, $6k isn’t much to spend for a better all around vehicle with far more capability if you’re looking new. Used can buy you a good 3/4 ton for the same or less than some 1/2 tons, so it becomes a different game then.

I get it, you like your shorty. It’s my opinion that buying a shortbed truck is like buying a 4 passenger minivan, what’s the point?

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/10/2018 at 17:37

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You keep trying to sell the superiority of your minivan. I’m not buying it.

Honestly, every single advantage you claim has a pretty big caveat. It can haul mulch inside, but you have to vaccum it afterwards. It can tow a trailer, but you need a trailer to haul what a truck can fit in the bed. It can haul lumber without tying it down, but you potentially have unrestrained lumber sliding around the passenger compartment

Everything considered, a minivan is a bad option for me. Too many seats, horrible access to the cargo area , and I would constantly have to fight folding/removable seats and car seats to switch from hauling cargo to hauling people. You would still need to rent a truck or own a trailer to haul anything taller than the back door. Plus they’re not that efficient and horrible to drive too.

As far as truck vs minivan, the minivan loses almost every single category. You think my truck is like a 4 seat minivan? Your minivan is like a short bed truck with a non-removable cap.

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/11/2018 at 07:07

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Honestly, every single advantage you claim has a pretty big caveat. It can haul mulch inside, but you have to vaccum it afterwards.

Actually I just vacuum because I like a clean vehicle, the few pieces of mulch that made it to the interior were less than the crap most people track in getting in from outside, I could have easily just picked them out. You were just complaining about “still finding gravel” in your bed.

It can tow a trailer, but you need a trailer to haul what a truck can fit in the bed.  

Nope, remove the center bench, slide the rear seat forward, I can carry 5 adults + cargo comfortably. Bonus: My cargo is covered without the need to buy additional pieces for my truck.

It can haul lumber without tying it down, but you potentially have unrestrained lumber sliding around the passenger compartment

Again, nope. The lumber slides under the seats, in between the seat uprights, to the dash. It has nowhere to go.

Everything considered, a minivan is a bad option for me. Too many seats, horrible access to the cargo area, and I would constantly have to fight folding/removable seats and car seats to switch from hauling cargo to hauling people.

False. I can configure my seating to have seating for 5 + cargo. Aka, as much seating as most crew cab trucks + as much cargo as most short beds. Not sure how opening a hatch is somehow worse than trying to reach over the side of a bed or climbing in the bed to access cargo, but hey, whatever you have to tell yourself.

Plus they’re not that efficient and horrible to drive too.

24 mpg average and are you really going to try to tell me a full size truck is fun to drive? Guess what, don’t like how it drives, change it. There’s this wonderful thing called modding, should try it sometime. That being said, the minivan is less horrible to drive than a 1/2 ton crew cab, unless you have some sort of complex?

As far as truck vs minivan, the minivan loses almost every single category.

Same payload (in most cases) , better mileage, more people capacity, better driving, more towing capacity than most people will ever need. Where is it losing again?

You think my truck is like a 4 seat minivan?

No, it has the usefulness of a 4 seat minivan, get it right.

Your minivan is like a short bed truck with a non-removable cap.

I’m ok with that, I prefer to cover my loads anyway, so it’s a convenient feature. I’ll bet taking that cap on and off is some much less work than hooking up to a trailer though!

I get it, you hate minivans for some reason, likely image. Guess what, crew cab trucks and CUVs are today what minivans were 20 yrs ago, they are the given up on life/soccer mom mobiles.

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/11/2018 at 10:12

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I think you’re trying to convince yourself that your minivan is useful. Again, it’s not convincing me.

I’ve never needed to vacuum my load bed. I can load it from the top with a hoist or skid loader or forklift if needed, options that are impossible with a minivan’s hatch (And yes, options that I have used fairly often) .

A new Ram 1500 can match the Pacifica’s gas mileage.

M y 300hp 4x4 Titan is a lot of fun to drive. Enough power to powerslide through corners, tough enough to absorb large bumps or rail road tracks, and I can switch it to 4wd to play around in the mud or snow. How in the world could an overweight understeering FWD platform be more fun?

Don’t like it? You can mod it. I can easily find all kinds of bolt on mods for my Titan, even though it was the less popular “off brand” truck. Everything from Long tube headers to fully built transmissions, from lifting several inches, to lowering several inches. There’s even a company working to swap manual transmissions onto the VK engine.

Same payload (in most cases), better mileage , more people capacity, better driving , more towing capacity than most people will ever need. Where is it losing again?

Payload ratings are pointless if you can’t load it, I don’t need more people capacity, I hate how minivans drive, and I want the option of towing a project car or my dad’s parade tractors. The minivan loses everywhere for me.

unless you have some sort of complex?

Classy. Yes, look at me overcompensating with my bone stock drab colored truck.

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/11/2018 at 10:27

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I don’t need convincing, I know I bought the correct tool for the job everyday.

I’ve never needed to vacuum my load bed.

NA, you just complain about still finding remnants of a bygone load.

I can load it from the top with a hoist or skid loader or forklift if needed, options that are impossible with a minivan’s hatch (And yes, options that I have used fairly often).

You’re right, I can’t load it from the top. I can however load it from the back, with a hoist or forklift just as easily.

A new Ram 1500 can match the Pacifica’s gas mileage.

*In EPA testing. Real world use, not so much.

My 300hp 4x4 Titan is a lot of fun to drive. Enough power to powerslide through corners, tough enough to absorb large bumps or rail road tracks, and I can switch it to 4wd to play around in the mud or snow. How in the world could an overweight understeering FWD platform be more fun?

15.2 sec quarter miles, AT tires. Plenty of fun on the street, while staying smooth and mild-mannered, loads of fun off road. Lift off throttle mid corner and she’ll slide the rear out.

FYI, your truck weighs 2x what my van weighs and understeers in factory trim, regardless of driven wheels.

Payload ratings are pointless if you can’t load it, I don’t need more people capacity, I hate how minivans drive, and I want the option of towing a project car or my dad’s parade tractors. The minivan loses everywhere for me.

So you move the rear bench forward, have seating for 5 + a shortbed’s worth of cargo space. The minivan is tighter and more responsive than any 4x4 truck, not sure how you can hate a better driving vehicle. I’ve had no issue towing project cars home with mine.

This can go round and round all day. 

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/11/2018 at 11:48

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This can go round and round all day.

It really shouldn’t. Unless you need 7 seats, or are willing to sacrifice utility for a few more miles per gallon, the half ton crew cab short bed is the far more useful vehicle. It’s really not even a comparison.

You can claim that your van can do everything that my truck can do, but it can’t. You can fit a couch in your van? I carried the equivalent of 2 couches and a love seat in my truck, in one trip while also hauling my kids. You claim that a fork lift or hoist can load your van, but I know that a forklift couldn’t get close enough and a hoist is a pain to lift high enough under the raised hatch. You claim that you could haul sand and dirt in your van, but only with a lot of effort, a necessary clean up, and the potential for a shovel to damage your interior .

You claim that your van weighs half as much as my truck, and that can only be BS. You claim your van can tow more than anyone would need? I’m not sure your tow rating would be enough for a rental trailer and the tube frame car I’m currently building (Which will need to be t rail ed to the DMV to get plates ) .

You claim that a minivan is “Tighter and more responsive”, and those are the last two words I’d use to describe driving a minivan. The best minivan I’ve ever driven was only “Not very irritating”.

If anything, you’ve convinced me that a minivan is the worst choice of vehicle I could have gone with. Too many compromises, too few payoffs .

Long-Voyager > CobraJoe 07/11/2018 at 12:21

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It really shouldn’t. Unless you need 7 seats, or are willing to sacrifice utility for a few more miles per gallon, the half ton crew cab short bed is the far more useful vehicle. It’s really not even a comparison.

Yet my van currently has seating for 5 + a shortbed’s worth of covered cargo area . Same seating, same cargo space.

You can claim that your van can do everything that my truck can do, but it can’t.

Maybe not by you.

You can fit a couch in your van?

Yes. I can even do it with the hatch closed.

You claim that a fork lift or hoist can load your van, but I know that a forklift couldn’t get close enough and a hoist is a pain to lift high enough under the raised hatch.  

If the person operating either is incompetent. A competent operator can load things in the back of the van with ease.

You claim that you could haul sand and dirt in your van, but only with a lot of effort, a necessary clean up, and the potential for a shovel to damage your interior.

If a tarp, some shoveling, and a quick vacuum is to o much work for you, I’m sorry.

You claim that your van weighs half as much as my truck, and that can only be BS.

Voyager: 3,305 lbs

Titan Crew Cab 4x4: 5,556 lbs.

Close enough for me.

You claim that a minivan is “Tighter and more responsive”, and those are the last two words I’d use to describe driving a minivan.

Compared to a 1/2 ton 4x4, easily.

Too many compromises, too few payoffs.

So instead buy a vehicle with more compromises and less payoffs?

CobraJoe > Long-Voyager 07/11/2018 at 12:38

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You do a very good job of ignoring everything I’ve said that the truck does better. I’d say good job at trolling me, but you actually seem serious.

So, instead I’ll say great job deluding yourself. And no, I won’t help you move.