"PS9" (PS9)
07/02/2018 at 19:16 • Filed to: None
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"PS9" (PS9)
07/02/2018 at 19:16 • Filed to: None | 3
| 11 |
This tube-chassis kit car yo u must put together yourself using huge pieces of a different already made car the kit car company did not make and will not provide for you is evidence that any car company can build a road legal and regulation compliant Porsche 718 competitor and sell it to us for a fraction of the cost new .
Front Page. Not even onc e.
feather-throttle-not-hair
> PS9
07/02/2018 at 20:01 |
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There’s one of those that runs around bellevue sometimes. First time i saw it, i literally had no idea what it was.
StudyStudyStudy
> PS9
07/02/2018 at 20:14 |
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I’d love to make a 8 18 and throw a boosted STI motor at it. 4-500hp in 818kg sounds like a hoot.
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StudyStudyStudy
> feather-throttle-not-hair
07/02/2018 at 20:15 |
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I think I recall seeing one, isn’t it the convertible one though? I’ve yet to see one in the wild, but I’ll have to keep my eyes open. I know we have an ariel or two running around on nice days.
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feather-throttle-not-hair
> StudyStudyStudy
07/02/2018 at 20:35 |
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Yeaaaahhh, i think so, i feel like i thought it was an S2000 at first.
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> PS9
07/02/2018 at 21:27 |
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I am the one who posted that, and in subsequent posts laid out rebuttals as to how and why it has worked, and can work again.
https://jalopnik.com/1827290016
I stand by it as a technical architecture parallel and an example of Subaru’s drivetrain in an operational mid-engined setting
. I
t was never intended to be a production analog. If BRZ can have a Subaru flat-4 between the front wheels, it could otherwise have had that flat 4, and a Subaru transaxle between the rear wheels... and it could be packaged with a turbocharger as WRX already utilizes.
You may want to be careful with completely mis-representing the context. That was Part 2 of the argument.
P art 1 was that car companies have built less expensive mid-engined cars than Porsche 718's price point on multiple occasions, and they can do it again, because, just like all Subarus and Toyotas, build quality, materials, and other aspects are not intended to be on the same level as the modern Porsche 718, which is nearly twice the price of the average new car transaction in 2018, and similar complexity or more complex cars are sold at or near that average transaction price.
Thank you for being a complete jerk, and mis-representing my point
in an effort to portray someone you don’t even know as a fool, when you didn’t even GET THE POINT. Thank you for showing your true colors.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> StudyStudyStudy
07/02/2018 at 21:29 |
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that is the engine they are built with... WRX, Legacy GT/Outback XT, or STI engines can be used, with later Legacy/WRX cable-shifted 6-speed manual gearbox, converted to 2WD. As long as cooling is sufficient, it should be VERY doable... and extremely fast.
Milky
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
07/03/2018 at 09:06 |
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Is the Bluesport the last time someone thought about doing a cheap mid engine car (like practically, not just pie-in-the-sky) ?
Apparently they w
ould have done it if they could’ve counted on 40-50k units a year.
https://jalopnik.com/why-cant-you-buy-the-best-car-volkswagens-designed-in-1456943158
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Milky
07/03/2018 at 10:10 |
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BlueSport and Audi R4 are recent. Alfa 4C is more recent, but not affordable due to the carbon fiber and aluminum chassis construction.
40-50K units world wide is not that high a number.
According to Carsalesbase.com, BRZ has sold 35,453 units in the US from introduction through May 2018.
Scion FR-S/Toyota GT86 merged sales over the same period is 70,523 units.
Counting all three models together, a total combined sales of 105,976 cars.
That is in light of the people who want that car, and in context of the other front-engined, RWD performance cars that it competes with, which formerly included Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Miata and Miata RF, Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger.
One could argue that although a mid-engined RWD performance car would compete with all of those cars... it would have the edge of that mid-engined chassis as a differentiator, which none of the competitors have, and could actually create a competitive advantage, and theoretically some external sales... people like me who have considered, but ultimately decided to hold off on any of those cars... but would be more motivated to grab a mid-engined offering if one were to become available.
I realize VW took a significant hit on their diesel scandal, and probably were not in a great position after that to spend cash on a niche product... but there are MANY companies that have mid-engined compatible drivetrains.
In the interest of balance, perhaps a counterpoint to my own argument... Fortune.com 6/2017 - New Cars Are Unaffordable for Most Americans
Even in light of that report... a niche vehicle, with mixed reviews like the FT86 cars, have still sold 100K+ units.
I would think an even more purposeful, more appropriately powerful, even-better handling, uniquely mid-engined car, especially with enough room for tall drivers, and styling that is truly well done... could do even better.
And if they can sell to people above the median income, but not quite in Porsche territory... I would think there would be a decent used resale value for them for people willing to buy one second-hand after a few years... or people willing to save up and stretch their budget for a couple of years to responsibly buy one new.
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Milky
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
07/03/2018 at 10:24 |
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I mean, I agree. Take your golf (or equivalent) drivetrain, some interior parts from other cars and make the chassis/handling good.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Milky
07/03/2018 at 10:59 |
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Yep, same page.
I am not sure why VW didn’t think they could hit 40-50K world-wide units sold... especially sharing a modified MQB platform under it with an Audi R4 coupe.
Handling would be as good or better than FT86, by being mid-engined. Styling on par.
2-seat may be a bit of a hurdle, but the rear seats on FT86 are not exactly spacious. Trunk space would be a bit more split up, between front and rear trunk spaces, rather than shared with the interior space on FT86 with the rear seats folded... but again, it isn’t a cargo hauler. As long as it isn’t as abysmally non-existent as the no-trunk ZZW30 MR2 Spyder was, and could haul weekend luggage for two people, like a Miata, it would probably pass the test.
VW’s turbocharged engines are more powerful and more torque abundant than Subaru’s FA20DIT in the BRZ/GT86 , and Miata’s engine even with it’s 2019 upgrade to 180-ish horsepower, and the biggest complaint and deficit of the FT86 cars would not apply... that they have to be revved and driven aggressively constantly, and are under-powered otherwise.
If FT86 can sell 100K+ units in the US alone, despite that deficit, and the competition, I would think 40K units world-wide per year, for a more powerful, better handling mid-engined car would be a goal reasonably met or exceeded.
BlueSport was based on a proposition of a sporty turbo-diesel, which VW was burned on their diesel scandal... but even if it were Honda’s junior-NSX project, or a GM-built new-age Fiero revival, or a Toyota MR2 revival, a new KIA/Hyundai product... Heck, I even thought BMW could have gone mid-engined RWD with Mini Coupe and Speedster 2-seaters , to actually have made those compelling little cars, rather than redundant nonsense that didn’t really have much business case behind them, compared to 2+2 Mini Cooper and Convertible.
The business case is just hanging out there. Maybe not a huge money-maker... but a reasonably big splash in the affordable performance arena, and getting mainstream car enthusiasts interested and into showrooms.
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StudyStudyStudy
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
07/09/2018 at 18:42 |
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I thought I read somewhere that they wanted people to run just the WRX engine over the STI engine, maybe they just meant for ease of availability.