Just how bad of an idea is this?

"WilliamsSW" (williamssw) 04/09/2018 at 15:35 • Filed to: unnecessary car shopping without E90M3, unnecessary car shopping with E90M3, AMG

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It technically fits all of my requirements, so there’s that.

It’s got some miles on it (73k), and would require great care and feeding, but 590 tq at 2,000 RPM sounds like a good time...

https://www.mercedesbenzofwestmont.com/used/Mercedes-Benz/2013-Mercedes-Benz-E+63+AMG-43ff2b480a0d04fe7eda49170bd96b09.htm

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:42

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PartyPooper2012 > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:43

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you’ll be like -

Here is my first born for replacement parts....

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 04/09/2018 at 15:44

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sad trombone.wav - That link can’t be played in the US apparently.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:44

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You better get a BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty on that one.

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:45

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It’s a video from House MD season 8, when house makes a pneumatic door to Wilson’s office and after seeing the whole mess House made just to invite Wilson to his team he simply says “no”

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2018 at 15:45

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Damn and I was really getting used to having the little guy around...

djmt1 > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:45

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It gives a quality back massage at 120mph.

Discerning > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:45

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How risk averse are you? Does it come with a warranty? Have you looked into costs related to engine, transmission, suspension, electrical repairs and the likelihood of them happening?

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:45

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I’m SORRY I thought this was the land of FREEDOM™  

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:47

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I asked about this car some time ago, The main things I recall:

- it roasts rear tires on the regular

- the tires are too small for the power

- some years are better than others reliability wise

WilliamsSW > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/09/2018 at 15:47

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Freedom to charge for access to videos apparently?

Spanfeller is a twat > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:48

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Does this link work? I suppose the music is there to qualm the lawyers

WilliamsSW > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 04/09/2018 at 15:49

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Are the first two items problems or features?

True on the last item, but this is well after the head bolt issue.

MrDakka > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:49

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https://jalopnik.com/here-is-why-expensive-cars-arent-always-reliable-1825108064

Spanfeller is a twat > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/09/2018 at 15:50

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This one maybe?

I’m just throwing links around.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Spanfeller is a twat 04/09/2018 at 15:50

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Sunnuva! Foiled again!

Spanfeller is a twat > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/09/2018 at 15:52

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What!

WITCHCRAFT!

just go on Netflix and look for Season 8 episode 5 and skip to the ending.

The answer in the end is don’t buy a used AMG unless it’s service booklet is thicker than the orignial draft of the Affordable Care Act

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:53

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As some say, AMG = All Money Gone. Check the prices of consumables, brakes and tires for these can be dear, I think.

P3 and B&O aren’t the most common, too bad it lacks distronic. Not a bad price if it passes a PPI.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:53

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Financially 1 and 2 are problems, fun-factor-wise, they are features.

I read some alarming mileage numbers out of rear tires on these.

WilliamsSW > Discerning 04/09/2018 at 15:53

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I’m open enough to risk that I’m willing to pay monies for a 3-5 year old German car, so there’s that. Still researching the rest of it - - TBH, I’m leaning toward an E550 4Matic, but the local dealer just sold the one that they had, so the salesman yesterday actually sent me a link to this car. Yeah - he’s pushing it at me, not vice versa.

I’m just spitballing, the E550 has all the power that I need, plus more traction and probably a little less maintenance $ (notably brakes).

But at this point, I’d be an idiot not to at least test drive it, right????

Noah - Now with more boost. > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:56

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It’s stupid but when I have the money for this kind of thing I will probably do it. Keep it for an entire driving season, sell it when the inevitable boredom ensues, hope losses are kept to a minimum of a few grand because nothing exploded or fried itself

Dark chocolate > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:56

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I have owned multiple MBs and a P31 C63 AMG.

Be aware of (upcoming) massive costs to “service” (basically replace) those AMG rotors. Close to $6k. Be prepared fro massive depreciation. And a new rear set of tires every 8k miles (5k Miles if you drive like me).

Also, service costs will be typically average to about $1200 / year. assuming you don’t drive much.

If size is not an issue and you’re okay with interior, I’d suggest the M156 C63.    

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/09/2018 at 15:57

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The Distronic omission is weird - because it seems like EVERY OTHER box was checked when this car was ordered - even the rear seat entertainment system for $1,910, plus the P30 for $7,700.

Original MSRP of $118,605 - 5 years ago. Yikes.

WilliamsSW > Spanfeller is a twat 04/09/2018 at 15:58

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No to all. And here I am in the land of the “free”. :/

PartyPooper2012 > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 15:59

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There isn’t much difference between the first and last born. Just a matter of time. If you do it frequently enough, they all blend it... but on the bright side... your driveway could be peppered in those newish benzes

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:00

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Hmmm, AMG parts or kid’s college tuition? Tough call.

WilliamsSW > MrDakka 04/09/2018 at 16:01

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TBH I expect expensive cars to be a little less reliable, because they have more shit going on.

WilliamsSW > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/09/2018 at 16:01

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If this was at Carmax I might be racing down to buy it.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:03

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If it checks these 3 boxes it must be bought at Carmax with their warranty.

* Used

* High-Performance

* German or any European

They do have some really interesting cars listed but it is a wait and watch game

WilliamsSW > Dark chocolate 04/09/2018 at 16:04

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The W212 specifically interests me because I do need the room, unfortunately.

It’s stuff like $6k rotors that would drive me nuts in the long run - not the depreciation or tires.

This car was there when I test drove an E550 - I specifically avoided it at that time, now the dealer is actually trying to entice me on it.

I know full well it’s *not* ideal for me right now, but I can dream at least - that’s free!

WilliamsSW > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/09/2018 at 16:06

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M-B has a good CPO program as well, so I would feel ok with that, but this one doesn’t qualify.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 04/09/2018 at 16:06

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So you’re saying there’s a chance?

Thomas Donohue > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:07

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I still like the looks of the later W211 better than the early split- headlight W212.

The last model year (2009) had upgraded interior, GPS, etc.

Also interesting: a 2009 E550....almost 400 horses and torques with AWD/4Matic. (the W211 E63 was only offered with RWD, and eats tires)

E63 below.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=461488023&zip=07003&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D07003%26startYear%3D2009%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2009%26modelCodeList%3DE63AMG%26makeCodeList%3DMB%26searchRadius%3D0&startYear=2009&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2009&modelCodeList=E63AMG&makeCodeList=MB&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=MB&modelCode1=E63AMG

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:09

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Don’t ask me, ask your wife.

Also, please post a recording of that conversation.

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012 04/09/2018 at 16:10

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Well in my case there’s absolutely no difference between the first and last born...

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:11

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Main differences as far as ownership costs and reliability as opposed to an E550:

Tires and brakes.

Not 4matic. Which means less traction but also no front diff, or axles, or transfer case to potentially give you issues.

That’s it. Still pretty reliable as it’s basically the same engine and trans. Still a 212, which is excellent. CPO wouldn’t be a bad option if they’re offering it on this car. Just in case, for peace of mind.

My main issue with this car, too much power for two wheel drive. But if you live somewhere that’s usually warm and has decent roads without piles of gravel leftover from snow season, then it’s fine.

One other thing, this probably doesn’t have airmatic suspension, at least in front. It’ll have electromagnetic shocks for adjustment. Much more reliable than air struts.

WilliamsSW > Noah - Now with more boost. 04/09/2018 at 16:11

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It requires a lot of research so that you have your eyes wide open going in, that’s for sure.

WilliamsSW > Thomas Donohue 04/09/2018 at 16:13

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Nice - I like the W211 as well, but I think this is in the range where they had head bolt issues, I believe — would have to do some research, but there’s an Oppo post that I’m too lazy to dig out right now that helps ID which engines have the problem (and which don’t). That post, plus the last photo, would be enough to answer that question.

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:16

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I don’t know how such cars exist. My local dealer had a 14 E550 sedan with Distronic, but without LED lights. Why would someone do that? I also recall a salesman telling me about a guy who ordered an E550 cabrio and special ordered it without P1. The resale hit must be immense on something that dopey.

At 40K is around the time to buy, still new enough to not be a relic, not worn out, and it can only depreciate so much from here.

WilliamsSW > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 04/09/2018 at 16:17

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Thanks - truth be told, I live just outside of Chicago, and the 550 has enough power for me, plus 4matic, so I’m just dreaming a bit on this one. I’m looking for a DD - this isn’t a snow belt DD car by any stretch.

No CPO, the car has 73k on it- that removes any chance of me buying it.

It’s got the P30 package, including AMG adaptive suspension, so no airmatic. It’s ridiculously loaded, but missing Distronic.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Chariotoflove 04/09/2018 at 16:17

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That sounds like an awesome Oppo series. Asking your significant other for car part/car money and posting the ensuing “lively conversation”

WilliamsSW > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 04/09/2018 at 16:21

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Yeah that sounds like a great idea - for OTHER PEOPLE to do!

Chariotoflove > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 04/09/2018 at 16:21

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We could call it “Oppositeflog”.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 04/09/2018 at 16:21

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I’ll get back to you on that later.

Much later.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Chariotoflove 04/09/2018 at 16:22

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Another candidate: Oppositepointofview

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/09/2018 at 16:26

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People are weird sometimes. I guess if you plan on keeping the car long enough, resale doesn’t matter.

Even some of the local dealers order some oddball stuff. I recently test drove a brand new E300 which stickered for ~$71k. Premium 3 and MB-Tex. That’s more common with MB, but the BMW dealer has a brand new 3 series that’s right at $60k with a manual transmission and Sensatec (which is crap IMHO). They tell me that it’s NOT a special order car (which I don’t really believe, but whatever).

Thomas Donohue > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:35

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Sadly, from what I’ve read on MBWorld, I believe all the W211 6.2L engines are in the range.

But, I own a 986 Boxster so none of that scares me! Seriously, that (and AWD) are what led me to start looking at W211 E550's.

Just saw your post on the W212 E550...I think that’s the sweet spot.

cmill189 - sans Volvo > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:45

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Does this have ceramic brakes? Why would rotors ever cost six thousand dollars if not? According to FCPEuro and the internets, rotors are 750, each. That ain’t cheap but it’s a far cry from six thousand. I thought the whole idea behind buying a formally uber-expensive car that was out-of-warranty was to NOT pay insane dealer mark-ups.

WilliamsSW > Thomas Donohue 04/09/2018 at 16:47

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Yeah, believe it or not, my wife isn’t convinced that buying used is a great idea, and would prefer that I went with a new car.

However, a facelifted W212 E550 (ie 2014 MY) with either a CPO or CarMax warranty seems like a perfect fit to me. There aren’t a lot of them out there, but they can be found.

Dark chocolate > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:52

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W212 is definitely larger.

Funny that you mention that,the space is what I needed as well. So, I let go off my C63 for the much larger SS.

An E550 would have been the german answer to the SS. Except that I would have bought one CPO vs the SS being new and Manual.

If you don’t mind answering, What do you need the space for. I needed it for three car seats. lol.

Have you considered a 750i / 750Li. I have a LWB 2014 7 series as well and it is bloody spacious for three adults to stretch in the back.

WilliamsSW > cmill189 - sans Volvo 04/09/2018 at 16:52

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I haven’t done any research on it, TBH — someone else mentioned $6k brakes, and I think I repeated that to someone else.

$750/ea is $3k plus pads, so still pretty expensive. But yeah, you need to DIY or have a good indy guy if you’re buying this car.

Thomas Donohue > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 16:55

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I’m with you. I looked at a 2009 E550 w/50k miles the other day.....for $15,000 I would have plenty leftover for maintenance. (Original sticker = $59,000)

WilliamsSW > Dark chocolate 04/09/2018 at 16:56

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At least 1 car seat, and maybe another, that’s what! ! ! :)

The SS is the other car that I’m considering, if I do go the used route. Maybe I’m wrong, but the 7er scares me more from a maintenance/repair standpoint than the W212 does. I certainly wouldn’t need the LWB, but the SWB would be pretty nice. I’ve been debating whether to check out a 5er or 7er, haven’t done it yet (I’ve actually driven the 340i and like it, but haven’t figured out whether it has enough space yet or not).

Dark chocolate > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 17:00

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Carmax warranty 7 series ?

For some reason, once you get used to space you just need more and more of it. I have a Navigator L and I swear to god, the regular Navigator would never work for me.. and more importantly, if Lincoln was to ever offer a Navigator XL or 2L, I would jump for it.

Once you get used to the space, there’s no looking back.

I drive may parents around in the 7 when I don;t have three car seats in there. And it’s humongous.

With the car seats, the kids feet can never ever reach the seat backs.. lol

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 17:33

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People can be penny wise and pound foolish. Even as a 10 year old car, lack of P1 will probably deduct at least its original cost.

My local has a highly optioned E300 at 73K, but it isn’t a P3 car. I’d rather have all of the toys than leather, actually - Tex doesn’t offend me, I’ve had a couple of Tex cars and people were always surprised when I pointed it out. And yeah, that 3er has to be special order.

AfromanGTO > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 04/09/2018 at 17:34

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Mine would say “What the fuck do you think!?”. lol

AfromanGTO > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 17:36

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Why not buy a used SS and add a LSA blower??????? You can even get them in manual. Plus removing the Chevy badges takes all of half an hour.

WilliamsSW > Dark chocolate 04/09/2018 at 17:38

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So true about the space! But I do prefer driving a smaller car, because they feel more nimble - so I’m trying to balance those two things.

I’ll have to check out the 7er, they seem to be in the same neighborhood as the 550, price-wise.

WilliamsSW > AfromanGTO 04/09/2018 at 17:40

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I’m considering that, too - though the stock LS3 would be enough for me, tbh.

I like the Merc interior a bit better, plus the 4matic is pretty nice to have. This car will be a DD in Chicago - so I don’t *have* to have AWD but it’s nice.

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/09/2018 at 17:43

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MB-Tex is nice - and good luck EVER finding a W212 E350 sedan or W213 E300 with leather. They exist, but they’re very rare.

Was bitching to my buddy the other day about a used car dealer that listed 6 Mercs with ‘leather’ and 5 of the 6 were MB-Tex. I inadvertently informed him that the W204 he’s been driving the last 3 years was MB-Tex...

Sensatec is different, though - - I wouldn’t pay $60k for a new BMW with that stuff.

AfromanGTO > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 17:47

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Buy the SS. It is the smart choice. The PM of Australia is driven around in the Holden version. So there’s another point in favor of the SS.

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 17:48

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Fortunately (as I am sure you know), leather and Tex have different stitching, and the material can be determined in pics. I see the leather vs Tex ad thing a lot, too.

My (lease) is an E250 Bluetec - with leather! And a host of other options, but of course, no distronic. Rare car, and it was a leftover of sorts, as 213s were shipping out when I got it. Via that and diesel fears, I got a deal. I’d think of buying it at the end, but the residual is insane, and can’t really be negotiated. I’ve thought of buying another, but it would need to be perfect in terms of options and colors - a tough order, as you are dealing with now. All of the BMWs I’ve driven were leather, all rental cars, mostly in Europe.

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/09/2018 at 17:57

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Yeah - first thing I look at on any MB listed as ‘leather’ is the stitching.

I just took a quick look, and MB shows 40 E250 Bluetecs on CPO right now. 37 are Tex. I imagine you got a good deal - maybe a car that someone ordered, but backed out on?

Check this one out though - I don’t love black, but the option list on this one is impressive:

https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/cpo/inventory/zip-60514/dealerId-05256/bodystyle-SDN/class-E/model-E250BTC/vin-WDDHF0EB9FB113539

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 18:03

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Yeah, I am pretty sure the car was an abandoned special order. It’s even a good color combo - indigo blue on brown. But without distronic and the pain of dealing with inflated residual at lease end, I can’t imagine buying it out.

Wow, that linked car would be almost perfect in another color. Just what I want - almost a full load, and very rare in lux trim car (which I also want, better ride and I miss the hood ornament). The wood flat bottom wheel is also uncommon. I can probably deal with 2WD. Too bad black would send me to an asylum, it rains too much here to make that doable for me.

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/09/2018 at 18:11

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That’s a sweet color combination! The other two E250's with leather are also 2WD, a brown one and a silver one. They have a lot of options, but not as many as the black one.

Buddy of mine was trying to pitch me on a 2015 E400 in white - - that may be the one color I dislike more than black. I told him if it was any other color, I’d look at it.

WilliamsSW > AfromanGTO 04/09/2018 at 18:17

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The SS has better steering, and is much more of a driver’s car than the E550 is - plus I wouldn’t expect it to depreciate like the Merc would.

It was a few months ago that I drove that one- - and I’m still kicking around the idea of finding a 6-speed SS and rolling with that.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 19:21

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Just move up a year then you can get 4matic E63. Best of both worlds! 

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 21:30

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I don’t mind white, not as hard to keep clean as it seems. It just turns a darker white. It is boring, but it won’t put me in a straightjacket like black. Pearl white is even better. Brown would be interesting too. I’d really like a loaded lux 4Matic car, but that seems unlikely. For silver, I like “Diamond Silver” which has a blue tint.

Here’s my car:

WilliamsSW > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 04/09/2018 at 22:10

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Except for the cost! :)

WilliamsSW > Thomas Donohue 04/09/2018 at 22:12

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Oooh, that’s a good deal if it’s clean!

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/09/2018 at 22:32

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Gorgeous colors!! Looove the brown leather, and I can’t recall seeing a face lifted W212 in Indigo Blue. Seems like it was more popular in the W211 and original W212?

I really like Lunar Blue, Cardinal red and diamond silver, really.

AfromanGTO > WilliamsSW 04/09/2018 at 22:55

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Get the manual SS! :)

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/10/2018 at 09:23

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It’s definitely unusual, but I have seen at least one other, a gasser. I don’t recall it on W211 - all of those here are grey, black, or white. There was a color on early W212 - ‘Quartz Blue’, that I also like, but it is uncommon. Diamond Silver somewhat replaced it. My ideal color combo would be Diamond Silver with a brown/beige/porcelain interior.

Funny thing about this car, it was an impulse buy. I stopped by the dealer to get a fob battery (free) for the E350 I was leasing, and saw a sales manager I had dealt with. He mentioned he had a car he thought I would like, as he knows I want something unusual, and they would make a deal to get it out of there. Aside from getting a pretty nice deal, I was able to do it with 9 months left in the prior lease, they did it to move a car they knew would probably sit around otherwise (I think they still have a leftover W212 on the back lot).

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/10/2018 at 09:39

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Looking a bit closer, the W211 color I’m thinking of is probably a little bit lighter than yours.

Funny how things work out sometimes - do you really think they still have a new W212 on the back lot? That seems hard to believe at this point.

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/10/2018 at 09:44

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Something else I like about this car - brown open pore/matte wood. It really works with the seating color (and no fingerprints!). I notice matte wood is very common in W213.

Here’s the car on the local dealer’s site - in the “new inventory” section, with a pic showing but 25 miles on the clock:

https://www.mercedesbenzofbellevue.com/new/Mercedes-Benz/2016-Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-eb152e560a0e0a6b278b250436ae04c0.htm

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/10/2018 at 09:49

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Hmm, that’s strange - it’s not oddly optioned, although it’s on the lower end of the spectrum. Colors aren’t ideal, but if the in-service date hasn’t been tripped yet (shouldn’t have been), that’s a good deal...

And yeah that matte wood looks great- didn’t notice it at first in your car.

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/10/2018 at 10:53

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OK, you’ve led me here — a total of 38 new W212's for sale on Autotrader, including a couple of wagons. Some are obviously loaners with miles, but not all:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/New+Cars/Sedan/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/Clarendon+Hills+IL-60514?zip=60514&startYear=1981&filterName=LISTING_TYPES&numRecords=25&vehicleStyleCodes=SEDAN%2CWAGON&seriesCodeList=E_CLASS&endYear=2016&makeCodeList=MB&driveGroup=AWD4WD%2CRWD&listingTypes=new&sortBy=relevance&firstRecord=25&searchRadius=0

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/10/2018 at 11:55

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I don’t mind the car, not fully loaded, but least it has keyless go and LED - two dealbreakers on a 212 for me. I think the price is at least 15% too steep though - I don’t care about the miles or warranty, it is a 2 year old car with now dated tech and design. I think I can get one with 10K miles for at least 10K less. These are still at a steep point on the curve.

Interesting search you had for the leftover new cars. I know MB offers somewhat secret crazy leases on old demos and loaners, not sure how these avoided the loaner fate - that’s what happened to the unsold E400 hybrids locally.

WilliamsSW > fintail 04/10/2018 at 18:22

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It’s the idea of leasing something like this that appeals to me - IF the price was right.

Buying it for $52k is steep - with 10k miles, I think it’s in the $30's.

But I might throw out feelers on a couple of these (Wagons and E400's) to see if I can find something interesting.

fintail > WilliamsSW 04/10/2018 at 21:38

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I know of someone who got an unusual lease on a loaner C300. I know it isn’t what you want, but it was a nicer optioned car, 51K MSRP I think, had 8K miles on it, he got it for nothing but taxes/fees up front, MSDs, and around $300/month. A similar deal on that E would be attractive indeed. Has me itching about my lease end, but at the same time, I’ll be sad to see the current car go. Oh, I think I saw another same color car today.