Looks like Toyota took "Grounded to the Ground" too literally

"KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time" (kngt)
03/09/2018 at 10:51 • Filed to: #groundedtotheground, Toyota, Camry

Tried the rear seat in the new Camry and I can’t believe how low it is. This is what happens when you take a meme too seriously I guess. They have managed to increase interior volume, yes but at the cost of ground clearance and head room for rear passengers. The Camry has lost an inch off both the roofline and ground clearance.

And not just the Camry, even the 2018 Accord was more uncomfortable getting in and out compared to the previous versions and I think it would turn off many older buyers. This Longer, lower, wider philosophy combined with rakish roofs has been affecting all midsize sedans.

My theory is that since everyone is buying Crossovers for better space, ride height and ease of ingress/egress anyway, manufacturers went full “sporty” on midsize sedans.

DISCUSSION (22)

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 11:10

Good, anything to avoid that “I feel like I’m driving a van” while in something like a Chevy Spark where it is WAY too tall and narrow for its own good. Let crossovers be crossovers and sedans be sedans.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
03/09/2018 at 11:14

Sedan still being too low for rough roads, and too hard to get a car seat, or elder person into will be he death of them.

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 11:18

The Accord is fine.

The Camry, meanwhile, is fucking terrible. I barely fit in it and I’m 6’2”.

How did they manage to make a car so uncomfortable for tall people?

vicali > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 11:21

Friends of my parents took a loss selling their brand new Solara 10 years ago.. It was a red convertible and they were both retired empty nesters who spent all their time golfing.. Reason - it was too hard to get out of. They bought some cuv thing instead.

Kinja'd!!!

They were the prime market!

Wacko > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 11:25

HAHAHA

Like toyota did that for a sporty feeling!!

I think it was done for fuel economy

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo
03/09/2018 at 11:27

Are you talking about the Rear Seats in particular or...?

Front seating on both was pretty good for 5'11" except for the very low seats and ground clearance.

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 11:34

I found the front and rear uncomfortable. My hair was brushing the roof.

It drove just fine, but I didn’t find it comfortable, even with the seat down.

His Stigness > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
03/09/2018 at 11:35

It’s even worse when the customers put the seat all they way up. I’m not even that tall yet most of the time I’m having the keep my head cocked to one side because people are dumb. I also have to spend five minutes with each car waiting for the seat to go all the way back (on power seats). One time I had a customer bitch after she got in her car and said, “You’re not even that much taller than me!” I refrained from responding with, “Yeah, and you also don’t have a disfigured hip that is getting replaced in a few months, so shut up!”

bhtooefr > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 11:40

Worth noting that cars went through a phase of getting taller over the years, too, though - the original FWD Camry was 53.9" tall - three inches lower than the current one, and four inches lower than the previous one.

I agree that this seems to be a reaction to crossovers cannibalizing the sedan - if normal buyers want something over 65" tall, and don’t want a 58" tall car, and sporty and efficiency-minded buyers want something lower, make something lower.

functionoverfashion > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
03/09/2018 at 11:44

You are probably right, but as a minor counterpoint, I had a harder time getting the kids’ bucket car seats out of my wife’s X3 than my 325 wagon. I find it easier to lift something when it’s lower than me, than when it’s nearly an arm’s length out but straight ahead. My wife’s car still has dings on the rear door handles from those stupid seats.

Also, my kids have had no trouble climbing in/out of my wagon now for quite some time, while they can’t do the same in the X3. And that’s not even a really tall SUV!

But your point is still valid. I just don’t like tall vehicles for the sake of tallness. Imagine how easy it would be to drop a kid seat into a Miata-height car, if only it had a backseat.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > functionoverfashion
03/09/2018 at 11:52

The problem I have getting things like a car seat into a lower car ishitting my head. But I’m also 6’2” so I guess lots of people don’t have that problem.

The prefect compromise is a car like my wife’s Honda Fit. It’s still low to the ground but the roof is high so gett8ng things in and out, is easily, and elderly people have to problem sliding into it. It does feel like you’re driving a small, van tho... because you are

Arrivederci > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 12:00

And not just the Camry, even the 2018 Accord was more uncomfortable getting in and out compared to the previous versions and I think it would turn off many older buyers.

Is it both the front and rear that’s difficult to get out of or just the rear? If it’s just the rear, I doubt a lot of buyers will care, because they likely won’t have to use that themselves. Now if it’s the front as well, that’s no bueno because you’d be doing that all the time.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > His Stigness
03/09/2018 at 12:12

It made the biggest difference in an Infiniti Q40 I drove. When I got in it felt like driving a mini van with like less than an inch of headroom, my hair was rubbing on the roof. I had never experienced a seat height lever before so i didn’t know any better. While try to adjust the seat I accidentally came across the height lever and put it all the way down. It moved a solid foot of distance to the point of putting me damn near on the floor. Completely changed my perspective on the car. I’m used to my Miata seat being literally on the floor so tall seats are just off-putting. My STi has the height lever but it goes nowhere near low enough. I have it adjusted all the way down and it is still way too high. It’s a comfortable seat at least but it would vastly improve spirited driving with a lower seat.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Arrivederci
03/09/2018 at 12:14

It’s both. Once you’re inside it’s pretty good except for a steep drop in rear seat head space. Back seats are usually set higher than the front ones in these sedans but it was pretty bad to get into them without hitting your head or bending too much. For families with child seats and elders who might ride in the back this can be a deal breaker.

The problem is this is not a niche sedan like the Legacy but the Camry and Accord which they are going to sell hundreds and thousands every year. It’s like they actively trying to get people to move into the C-HR, RAV4 and HR-V/Cr-V instead. “Oh is this midsize sedan too low for you, how about this compact crossover instead?” but I guess it was expected

Arrivederci > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/09/2018 at 12:17

“Oh is this midsize sedan too low for you, how about this compact crossover instead?” but I guess it was expected

Might be giving the manufacturers too much credit, but this wouldn’t be entirely unsurprising. Margins on crossovers and SUVs are inherently higher than sedans.

functionoverfashion > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
03/09/2018 at 13:03

The Fit is pretty fantastic. I with there was a Fit Si!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > functionoverfashion
03/09/2018 at 13:41

I’ve been saying that since 05.

His Stigness > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
03/09/2018 at 14:13

I really don’t like Miata’s because of how low the car is, and the seat. Once you’re in it’s okay, but I swear so much getting in and out of one.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > His Stigness
03/09/2018 at 18:23

Haha that’s true of any low car though. As long as the top is down though its pretty easy to just fall in. I can’t put my top down from inside the car anyways so it’s always down first. Not that I put it up very often anyways lol.

Also, I replaced my spark plugs. Two of them were just WAY too loose. Ran perfectly fine after I used a torque wrench. Stupid me somehow made it like 6k miles of hard driving with spark plugs that were barely in there I guess.

His Stigness > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
03/10/2018 at 12:42

I always torque spark plugs for that reason. At least before you erred on the side of caution and they came loose. That’s much better than breaking them in the cylinder head.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > His Stigness
03/10/2018 at 17:07

Haha yeah that’s why I hadn’t tightened them enough, I was incredibly worried about breaking something. Having a torque wrench now makes my life easier.

His Stigness > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
03/10/2018 at 19:04

I get other techs scoffing at me when I torque anything down. But the jokes on them, so I don’t really care.