Epic fails

"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78) 02/16/2018 at 09:37 • Filed to: None

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Buffer image since this could be twisted into politics.

Here is our vicious cycle of law enforcement, communities, social services, media and the entire system failing one kid, and in turn failing 17 other people (and counting).

And once enough time passes, you’ll hear arguments about how even more guns will help prevent this. That just doesn’t hold up anymore. Until we lock down tighter (Swiss or Aussie-style), this will keep repeating. And the media sure isn’t helping, since I firmly believe the audience and attention given to these events play directly into warped minds.

Time to stop naming them, stop interviewing friends and family, stop giving them the attention they crave. Leave that to law enforcement. Even the ones who kill themselves ensure a sick legacy.

Finally, it seems like we have failed to “regulate” our “militia” and have failed our nation’s founders as a result. I support the Second Amendment, but the current implementation is just not working very well. It’s downright insulting to responsible gun owners, since that moniker has expanded to every nutjob without a felony on his record. I prefer to keep better company than that.

How much more do you want from a suspect? This sounds like one signed pre-confession after another:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Rant over, Sorry for any typos, I’m 100% mobile.

Nibby > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 09:53

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I don’t care about his name. It’s stupid how the media plasters his name everywhere. A lot of people who have been watching the news probably can recall his name but not a name of one of the victims. There’s something seriously fucked about that.

Stop sensationalizing the shooters. No, but they do it on purpose to instill fear.

The people who do these shootings have issues with isolation, rejection, lots of pent up anger and bottled emotions, but keep it all to themselves without a healthy way to diffuse it.

Ideally, this stuff wouldn’t happen if people were just better people overall. If we took the time to be nicer, friendlier, more positive instead of criticizing and being passive aggressive, negative, cynical etc. If we took the time to talk to people who we see every day a bit more, even a simple small conversation. If everyone strives to be a better person every day that would go a long way. And imagine if those who feel isolated/misplaced/forgotten had a place or friend who made them feel welcome... it would change so much for them. Things like this wouldn’t happen.

Be better. Everyone.

vondon302 > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 09:55

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So much this.

Especially the part about the media. I’ve done a self imposed news blackout on this story cause we all know the routine by now. Until we pass some common sense gun laws and fund mental health nothing’s gonna change.

Monkey B > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 09:55

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And the media sure isn’t helping, since I firmly believe the audience and attention given to these events play directly into warped minds.

This. Is it THE problem? No. But no story no glory certainly could help.

fintail > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 09:57

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I’m not sure if the next time there’s another horror (and knowing this devolving idiocracy, it is just a matter of time), having reports that “xx were claimed by a lone killer - no further data will be released” will do anything but fan the flames of fake news. This will probably result in already marginalized groups being scapegoated, especially seeing how the new group of fascists likes to point fingers. I don’t trust law enforcement enough to be able to keep stuff being spread, either.

In my not so humble opinion, the brave independent built it themselves real capitalist Murkan heroes who oversaw the gutting of the mental health system a generation or so ago should be held accountable, too. Also, every politco receiving funds from weapons-enabling groups should have their name and contribution amounts constantly broadcast for all to see. Give them a one way ticket to Galt’s Gulch, I shrugged.

Flavien Vidal > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 09:58

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Can’t say I disagree... I live in country with no guns (Japan) and I come from a country where guns are strictly regulated (France) and I’ve lived in countries where guns are seen as normal for over a decade (USA, Canada)... I don’t understand the paranoia from Americans when it comes to making sure you’re not freaking insane before allowing you to own a gun... And yes, I think that if you own a gun because you think you need to be freaking ready to be jumped on by random people around you, well, maybe you’re not up to the task of owning one...

Guns are fun, they are part of American culture, I get it. But if you’re a law abiding citizen why do you keep on threatening to disobey said laws if they were to change, and why is that a problem for you to go through a few more hurdles before buying a weapon?? It took you like 1 or 2 months to get your driver license... Don’t you think your CCW license should take at least as much???

I don’t get it and I don’t get why you think it goes “against ma freedom!!”

(By “you”, I don’t mean YOU, obviously :) )

functionoverfashion > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 09:59

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I mean, he literally said “I’m going to be a school shooter.” more than once, and in a variety of settings, it sounds like. For sure, this is a failure on many fronts.

WilliamsSW > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 09:59

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I for one am tired of the debate over whether it’s a mental health issue or a guns issue. We as a country are failing miserably at BOTH of those things and we need to get our shit together. As usual, the Onion headline nails it “No Way To Prevent This, Says ONLY Nation Where This Regularly Happens”.

I’m not a gun owner, but much of my family is. I think that the NRA (and Congress) is not only failing this country, they’re failing responsible gun owners, too. The more they work to block any restriction on gun access, the stronger the momentum on other side to go a lot further on gun restrictions.

And we need mental health issues to come out of the shadows, and make it easier for people to come forward and get better treatment. It’s not an either/or.

Nibby > Monkey B 02/16/2018 at 10:00

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certainly doesn’t help that you turn on the telly or go to a movie and there are guns everywhere and people being killed, shot, etc.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 10:03

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I saw this on twitter, which is usually horrible. But this is good:

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WRXforScience > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 10:06

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We should show the gory horror of the effects of these weapons on the victims.

Gun control debates should start with giant pictures of the horrific wounds and terrible consequences of the firearm fetish.

When the victims are shown as yearbook photos or crying bystanders, they are easier to ignore; however, the mutilated corpses of innocent victims should help properly frame the “debate”. 

190octane > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 10:11

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Honest question... so the kid said he was going to shoot up a school and there were warning signs on social media, but what realistically could’ve legally been done about it?

Until guns are much more strictly regulated, this shit will keep happening. Every gun should have to be licensed and registered and every gun owner should be required to have a license. If someone is caught with a gun that isn’t licensed and registered, or if someone is caught with a gun without having a license to own one, there should be a hefty jail sentence.

All the bullshit about “muh freedums” can stop because the constitution says “a well regulated militia”. Nothing says you have the constitutional right to not have regulations on firearms.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 10:14

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What’s preventing gun sellers from keeping their own lists? They’re private businesses that don’t have to sell anything to anyone that they don’t want to, right? Couldn’t they form their own list of names and encourage schools, parents, doctors & individuals to submit names of people that they are afraid are disturbed and should not have access to a gun? At some point, being legally in the right for selling a gun to someone isn’t sufficient, especially if our elected officials refused to act. These sellers have to get their morals on the table and start being more selective in whom they’re selling these killing machines to (this may be inflammatory, but that’s what guns are bullets are make to do - using them for recreation is secondary).

190octane > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 02/16/2018 at 10:19

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So he was a legal gun owner... until he wasn’t?

whoarder is tellurium > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 10:20

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In all of this, I still believe we’ve continued to neglect the security needs of teachers and students in our school systems. Its not enough to run and hide from an active shooter.

I don’t recall there being any sort of nation wide effort to improve defenses at public school systems. Certain localities may have allowed some changes, but it is not enough. You’d think that after the worst school shooting in US history, someone would’ve thought about improving the active security measures of our public system as a whole.

I know at one time, Rand Paul introduced a bill to repeal gun free zones in schools.

Either way, at minimum from this point on- every school should have some sort active security team and a monitoring system for each classroom/hallway/entry. On top of that, at least give teachers and staff THE OPTION (read: not mandatory) to actively defend themselves and students from attackers.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Flavien Vidal 02/16/2018 at 10:20

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Exactly. Making permit requirements stricter is not infringing on anyone’s right to own a firearm. You can still own one, but you’ll have to jump through a few more hoops. It’s become necessary because of the issue we have with mental health in the US now.

Thomas Donohue > Flavien Vidal 02/16/2018 at 10:21

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This. I heard quite a few people say yesterday “Cars kill tens of thousands, why don’t we want to get rid of all cars??!?!?!”

But the more I thought about it, the more the car reference makes sense. (I guess this now qualifies as car content????) We do in fact have a system of safety tests, licensing, registration, and insurance for cars. Why don’t we do the same for weapons?

No one under 16/18 can have one. (If states decide parents can co-sign for hunting licenses for younger, that’s fine.)

You need six months of practice/safety training before you get your first car/gun license. (can be much less time obviously, but lets have mandatory safety training while your background check is being done)

You have to pass a test to get a license. (safety test/mental health test)

When you go to buy one, you have to register it. And insure it. And renew the registration every ~3 years (even if it’s $3 a year for each gun, the money can go towards an insurance fund for victims should said gun get used for a crime).

No one under 21/25 can have a handgun without special license. Handguns cost more to register. Tiered rates for larger caliber, special use, or hi-capacity weapons. (This will not be popular on Oppo, but we should have similar licensing for cars with a lot of horsepower. I think this is done elsewhere. Basically less than 300hp under 21 years old, unless you’ve taken additional safety classes, etc. )

I’m not trying to take anyone’s guns away, or stop anyone from enjoying gun ownership, or hunting, or whatever. Just a suggestions for some simple Federal laws to prevent the ability for just about anyone to walk into a store and buy a weapon, along with all the bullets they want. (I do realize some states already have some of these restrictions).

I know this will be costly, but I’m sure the NRA would love to help with paying for the safety training classes.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > 190octane 02/16/2018 at 10:22

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No. There were a bunch of red flags which nobody picked up on.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 10:23

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I had the “pleasure” of being out in the field (oil) yesterday and yes, the talk at lunch was 100% about how arming teachers would clearly solve the problem and gun control could never work. I just sat there with a blank stare while imagining whale sounds. (Not really that last part)

Sadly the new kid decided to engage, despite there being no chance of changing their minds (also risking offending our customers). I continued my tactic.

crowmolly > WilliamsSW 02/16/2018 at 10:24

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I think there’s another aspect that is rarely touched upon.

We are a society that likes its violence. Our consumption of violent media is unparalleled in the world. Just take a look at what Americans look at for entertainment. We normalize violence and make shooting seem like an acceptable response to mistreatment. This is the first place to start.

How dare you show a boob on national TV! We’d rather show a hero using his Desert Eagle to decapitate the bad guys.

Hell, the fact that the Desert Eagle is as popular as it is proves my point.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > WilliamsSW 02/16/2018 at 10:26

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https://giffords.org/2017/04/gun-owner-poll/

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/oct/03/chris-abele/do-90-americans-support-background-checks-all-gun-/

It seems the NRA is less interested in honestly representing gun owners’ wishes these days.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Flavien Vidal 02/16/2018 at 10:26

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I’m an America gun owner and I am all for background checks for every gun purchase and for the background checks to be more thorough. I wouldn’t be opposed to having to require a license of some sort with training requirements for gun ownership.

I think most Americans who are opposed to gun legislation are very distrusting of the government in general and view the 2 steps I listed about as only the first 2 steps. Then comes banning certain types of guns available for sale. Then comes having a gun registry. And once the government has a registry it would be quite simple to enforce a gun ban. At least that’s how many of them view it. It’s a path to having their guns taken away.

WilliamsSW > crowmolly 02/16/2018 at 10:28

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This is an excellent point. And probably even harder to address than gun restrictions or mental health, I suspect. It’s deeply ingrained in American culture.

Flavien Vidal > Thomas Donohue 02/16/2018 at 10:31

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Horsepower categories and licenses are a thing for bikes but not for cars as far as I know it... In Japan for example, you have a licenses up to 50cc, up to 125cc, up to 400cc and unlimited. In France where I’m from anyone with 125cc requiring 20 hours of instruction, license up to 600cc requiring special extra instruction of 20hours with such bikes and bikes over that limit requiring an extra 7 hours of instruction for people who have ridden bikes up to 600cc for at least 2 years...

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > 190octane 02/16/2018 at 10:33

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Scalia ruled in the Columbia v Heller decision that the 2nd Amd is not unlimited, and you do not necessarily have the right to own whatever firearms you want. I see this as a potential way to ban assault-style rifles should the political will ever be present. (yeah, right)

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > crowmolly 02/16/2018 at 10:35

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I doubt that has any real affect. Look at the Japanese, they have some seriously violent cartoons/movies/entertainment yet are no where close to the US with regards to violent crime.

Flavien Vidal > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/16/2018 at 10:37

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My car is registered... it can be used as a weapon... I had months of training before being able to drive it on my own... And yes if I screw up, my right to use it will be taken away. I’m cool with that. If I were to own a gun (I can’t, because Japan) I’d expect laws to be just as strict... I mean, guns are meant to kill... Cars aren’t... I really like guns and they are fun, but I understand that weapons aren’t fun toys even if they can be used as such. They are built to kill. I don’t want my crazy anarchist neighbour to own one haha

crowmolly > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/16/2018 at 10:39

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nvm

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 190octane 02/16/2018 at 10:41

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He’s not technically a convicted felon yet... but felons can’t own guns.

WilliamsSW > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 02/16/2018 at 10:45

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It’s common for some of these lobby organizations to grow to a point where they become more about feeding the beast (generating revenue to gain more power) than they are about representing their membership. And when they realize that scare tactics are a great revenue generator, they’re off to the races. Seems to me that the NRA has done that- - they have a lot of members, but it’s a much smaller number that contributes most of the lobbying $$.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > crowmolly 02/16/2018 at 10:48

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I wish it wasn’t behind a paywall so I could actually read the whole thing. They clearly state that violent media is a predictor (correlation) then kind of state that it affects violence (causation). But I’d like to see how they determined that, since you know correlation does not equal causation.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 10:56

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I like the car licensing reference mentioned elsewhere. Here’s a version that might play better to the demographic opposed to the regulations: You can’t just be any old Joe Schmo and jump in a NASCAR stock car. You have to go through lots of testing and licensing before they let you out there to even just qualify for a race. Because you could kill people otherwise. The also fits with the whole “Guns don’t kill people; people kill people.” line they like to use. The stock car didn’t kill someone; the idiot driver did. Which is EXACTLY why there needs to be stricter regulations and training/licensing involved in who gets to have/use one.

And I’m saying this as a gun owner. Looking back, it was waaaay too easy for me to go buy a gun when I turned 18. I went into the store, told them which one I wanted, gave them the cash, waited 20 minutes or so while they ran whatever minimal background check South Carolina requires, and then walked out of the store with a brand new 12 gauge shotgun and a box of 100 shells. I didn’t have to prove I’d ever taken any courses on how to safely operate a firearm, let alone ever touched a gun before in the first place.

Ash78, voting early and often > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 02/16/2018 at 11:00

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Same here. It was disturbingly easy to get a CCW license here in Alabama. A free background check and $5/year.

I’d personally love to see a world where gun ownership is seen as an achievement or a privilege, but still remain a right. Maybe a case where we know that every gun owner should be respected for the training and work they had to go through (like your NASCAR analogy).

I love the deterrence aspect of widespread ownership, but time and time again we see the downside of that proliferation.

Thomas Donohue > Flavien Vidal 02/16/2018 at 11:00

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Thanks...that’s probably what I was thinking of.

For Sweden > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 11:08

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The problem with your thesis is that you say you support the Second Amendment, and also support Swiss and Australian gun regulations. That’s a contradiction; the Second Amendment prohibits such regulations.

If you want the Swiss and Australian gun regulations, you need to repeal the Second Amendment.

Thomas Donohue > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/16/2018 at 11:15

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Agreed, I have many friends that don’t support any type of legislation on guns for that very reason. With all that has happened in recent years, we can’t even get step one or two through Congress. How would we ever get to step 3, 4 or 5??? (By the way, for the majority of the country, there is no ‘step 2, 3 or 5').

With the exception of assault weapons, I have no interest at all with anything beyond background checks, training, and registration.

Thank you for your sensible post. The vast majority of discussions I’ve had in the last 24 hours were not very positive. Hopefully we can meet in the middle and come to a solution that doesn’t overburden gun owners, but prevents people from just walking into a store and buying a weapon without any sort of checks and balances. As has been said a lot, we have to do something.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > crowmolly 02/16/2018 at 11:18

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I won’t comment elsewhere because my opinion is not politically correct, but I do believe there are many problems that need to be fixed and we created them ourselves.

What’s wrong with the Desert Eagle? Aside from only using larger/more expensive rounds, it’s a great design. I’d love one that’s more my size in 9mm. It’s basically a fixed barrel rifle without a stock.

190octane > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/16/2018 at 11:18

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My point was that people talk about the majority of gun owners being law abiding citizens and that most guns aren’t involved in crimes... until they are used to shoot someone and then that gun owner becomes a felon.

Ash78, voting early and often > For Sweden 02/16/2018 at 11:22

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I was supporting their example, not their literal application — I think there’s a case that the Second Amendment warrants (or demands) better regulation to achieve security.

But we’ll never really know because they scribbled it down too fast.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > WilliamsSW 02/16/2018 at 11:26

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I read an article a while back about how far the NRA has drifted from its original purpose. And their scare tactics are effective, although I’d expect to see less of a bump in gun sales after mass shootings now because the NRA has “their guy” in the WH.

BigBlock440 > Thomas Donohue 02/16/2018 at 11:28

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That’s only the case if you use the car on a public roadway. If you use it on private property, there’s no licensing, no insurance, no age restrictions whatsoever.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 11:32

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I come from a long line of having guns. I even have a couple. When I was in 6th grade hunters safety was mandatory. Bunch of 12 yo’s trying to shoot clay pigeons with a 12 ga in a school mandated event, good times. I am thoroughly ingrained within the gun culture. My kids will grow up handling a gun. Learning the importance of respecting a weapon. Handling it properly, always treat it as loaded type thing. 

That being said. Something has to change. This is fucking ridiculous.

Textured Soy Protein > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 11:37

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The supreme court has ruled that in a general sense, the second amendment protects the right to bear arms for self defense, even though no words resembling “self defense” are in the second amendment. Which means that any gun rights folks have precedent they can use to challenge gun restrictions as infringing upon one’s ability to defend oneself.

This is stupid, and I disagree, but that’s the current state of legality.

Personally I’m in favor of any and all legislative remedies up to and including repealing the second amendment.

BigBlock440 > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 02/16/2018 at 11:38

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That’s a terrible analogy. You could go buy any NASCAR stock car you wanted without any kind of testing, background check, or licensing if you have enough money. Or pick up a used one for cheap. The only requirements are from a PRIVATE sanctioning body to make sure you don’t hold up everybody else and make the race boring as shit to watch.

BigBlock440 > 190octane 02/16/2018 at 11:43

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You should reread that. It says “since a militia is necessary to freedom, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”

His Stigness > Textured Soy Protein 02/16/2018 at 11:43

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That ruling can be changed. Previous rulings are not etched in stone, written in the Earth’s core, and made the word of god. They can, and have been overturned. I think if we got Justices on the bench that didn’t have their head up their ass then we could get a ruling that actually makes fucking sense.

Textualists are usually the one for unrestricted gun rights, yet the 2nd Amendment clearly states the right to bear arms is for the purpose of securing and maintaining a well armed MILITIA. And seeing as we already have a militia in the form of the National Guard, the 2nd Amendment is outdated and needs to be repealed.

crowmolly > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 02/16/2018 at 11:52

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It’s really top dog at nothing. And I’m strictly talking about the .50AE.

It’s way too big to concealed carry

It’s way too big for most people to comfortably hold

It has issues with being limp wristed

It can’t be surpressed

The mag capacity is small

The recoil is significant

The round really doesn’t offer more “lethality” over some much smaller and common rounds

Double recoil springs make racking the slide harder

It’s pretty expensive

Rounds are expensive

I get that it’s just cool , but it does not really fill a “need”. I think it was made for Israeli bodyguards to stop speeding cars or something, but that’s about it.

Textured Soy Protein > His Stigness 02/16/2018 at 11:53

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Of course legal precedent can change over time. But the current state of legal precedent is as I described it. I certainly don’t agree with it but that’s the state of things at the moment.

BigBlock440 > 190octane 02/16/2018 at 11:56

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So punish the majority? Every car owner is law abiding until they aren’t. Are you in favor of preemptively handing out speeding tickets?

His Stigness > Textured Soy Protein 02/16/2018 at 12:12

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I know, but we need to change it, But we won’t. I have no hope for positive change ever occurring.

Thomas Donohue > BigBlock440 02/16/2018 at 12:12

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At some point, the car was a new purchase, so it was likely purchased and registered somewhere by a licensed individual. If they want to let someone drive it around their property that’s up to them.

Similarly, if someone wants to give an old (or new) gun to someone on their farm and go hunting or shooting bottles...have at it. I believe you can do that now at gun ranges....bring another adult with you and I don’t think you need a license to shoot at the range.

In both cases, it’s the responsibility of the owner to make sure their car/gun is used responsibly, and not taken somewhere else and used illegally.

Again, I’m only proposing that we start doing this with new gun purchases, and used gun transactions. I’m open to suggestions on how to deal with collector guns, etc.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > crowmolly 02/16/2018 at 12:17

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Well, the 50AE is stupid. I’ve never understood that round. It’s also large, I’ll agree, too large for my tiny hands. But I’d love a fixed barrel piston (preferably) or direct impingement 9mm or 22LR for target shooting...

I haven’t fired one, but always understood that the enormous mass of the gun actually reduced felt recoil relative to the size of the rounds at each caliber.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > BigBlock440 02/16/2018 at 12:26

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I know NASCAR may seem like it’s just any good ‘ol boy who’s got deep pockets out there, but there is an actually qualification and licensing process to become a NASCAR driver.

Now if you’re talking about just anyone being able to buy the car itself, and not actually compete in a NASCAR event, then yeah sure, the analogy doesn’t work there. It wasn’t supposed to be that deeply thought out though, lol. Just a base level idea.

Also, if you’re going to dissect the analogy that much, you’ve already missed the point.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 02/16/2018 at 12:44

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They didn’t scribble it down fast, it was very carefully crafted and people since then have consistently misinterpreted a very simple amendment. It was written in the context of the era and probably would have been written more broadly had they known how little people would learn from our history.

190octane > BigBlock440 02/16/2018 at 13:23

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Punish the minority (because most people don’t own guns) how, by making it more difficult to get a gun?

How selfish do you have to be to be okay with people getting killed every day so you don’t have to wait longer or pay more to get your 10th gun?

I question whether people who value human life so little over them being inconvenienced are mentally sound enough to own guns in the first place. I know for a fact that people who are so paranoid that they’re opposed to a national gun registry because the “govmint don’t need to know what I have” definitely shouldn’t have them.

ttyymmnn > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 02/16/2018 at 14:13

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It’s been a long time since the NRA represented gun owners. Now, it’s nothing more than a front for the gun industry and a funnel for industry cash.

BigBlock440 > Thomas Donohue 02/16/2018 at 14:13

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You can buy track-only cars that do not require a license, registration, nor insurance brand new. Mustang Cobra Jet, COPO Camaro, and the Challenger Drag Pak are 3 examples. There’s probably some race only Porches or something too.

BigBlock440 > 190octane 02/16/2018 at 14:20

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I question whether people who value human life so little over them being inconvenienced are mentally sound enough to own guns in the first place. I know for a fact that people who are so paranoid that they’re opposed to a national gun registry because the “govmint don’t need to know what I have” definitely shouldn’t have them.

And that is exactly why I oppose any regulations whatsoever. People like you will never stop until they’re completely banned. The irony in that is how you’d cede all control to a federal government that’s currently got Trump at the head of it.

Punish the minority (because most people don’t own guns) how, by making it more difficult to get a gun?

The vast, vast majority of gun owners never will use it in the commission of a crime, or use it to to do anything more than put holes in paper. You’re in favor of preemptively charging and restricting people for something they will never do.

Thomas Donohue > BigBlock440 02/16/2018 at 14:33

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Yes, there are plenty of race cars, tractors, and military and construction vehicles that likely don’t follow normal registration guidelines. These are a very small number of exceptions to most new vehicle sales. But they all start with a bill of sale, and are also expensive and are usually insured.

For guns, any specialized military or ??? weapons should still have their own registration process.

190octane > BigBlock440 02/16/2018 at 14:43

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You oppose any regulations on guns? Really?

So you’re good with fully auto weapons being legal, no background checks, unlimited magazines, and unlimited open and concealed carry?

I’m not trying to build a straw man here, just trying to clarify your position.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > For Sweden 02/16/2018 at 15:15

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I strongly disagree that the Second Amendment prohibits regulating the ownership of guns.

Normal citizens are not a “militia,” nor are they generally prohibited from owning firearms, subject to restrictions that are *not* defined in the Constitution.

IMO the Second Amendment, in its original wording, belongs in the early 19th century when the young nation was fearful of British reprisal and sabotage.

For Sweden > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 02/16/2018 at 15:24

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According to current law, the militia includes every able-bodied male American between the ages of 17 and 45. It’s also hard to avoid the “right of the people” line.

IMO the Second Amendment, in its original wording, belongs in the early 19th century when the young nation was fearful of British reprisal and sabotage.

Then why not repeal it?

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > crowmolly 02/17/2018 at 00:52

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its like every cliche cop show, how do a huge number end? carchase and shoot out.