"2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered" (2fast2furiousfc3s) 10/21/2018 at 14:14 • Filed to: None

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someassemblyrequired > 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered 10/21/2018 at 14:19

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Note prohibition does not extend to RX8's

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered 10/21/2018 at 14:19

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I am less angry about LS-swapped 911s than I am about LS-swapped RX7s.

2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered > someassemblyrequired 10/21/2018 at 14:20

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I also love RX8s, but they are definitely more suited to engine swaps imo than an RX7. But still I'd drive the hell out of a stock RX8.  

Maxima Speed > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 10/21/2018 at 14:29

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LS-Swapped 911's anger me because of the amount of effort they put into making something that is so extremely flawed . I can’t imagine that dramatically increasing the weight in the rear end of a rear biased RWD car does the handling any favors at all. I imagine it makes a for wicked fast straight line car though.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Maxima Speed 10/21/2018 at 14:39

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from Renegade Hybrids.com:

Reduced weight of the LS Series is also a HUGE advantage over the “big” 911 motors. Weighing less than a completely dressed 3.0L NA motor, the LS Series has turbo performance with much less than turbo six weight. With less weight in the rear and more power under your right foot, you can see why a converted 911 is so much fun to drive.

I’m not a big LS fanboy, but you got to admit it really is the pinnacle of pushrod-v8 engin ee ring.

RvDTMedia > 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered 10/21/2018 at 14:40

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I have almost bought a RX-8 on three occasions, what held me back is my 6'6" height. Every time though, I am all like “Ill be shorter this time! I swear! ”

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Maxima Speed 10/21/2018 at 14:41

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It’s about 25 lbs

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 10/21/2018 at 14:53

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FTFY:

It’s about - 25 lbs

Tristan > RvDTMedia 10/21/2018 at 15:17

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I’m 6'7". The struggle is real. My head rubs the ceiling in my friggin SUBURBAN! What I wouldn’t give to be about 4" shorter.

way2blu does a rev update > Tristan 10/21/2018 at 15:22

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What you need, is...

Infinite headroom!

(I daily drove one of these for a long time, and at a leggy 6'2" height I had no problem fitting)

If at 6'7" the MG Midget is still cramped, try an MGB:

Maxima Speed > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 10/21/2018 at 15:37

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Wow ok, I had no idea they were that light. That seriously impressive. The more I find out about the LS the more I respect it’s capabilities.  

Tristan > way2blu does a rev update 10/21/2018 at 15:52

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The junebugs hurt my forehead.

RvDTMedia > way2blu does a rev update 10/21/2018 at 16:16

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I’ ve actually driven a midget, it was amazingly perfect. I could see through the windshield, heel toe in my socks, turn the wheel with out my hands running into my knees. A ll it needed was a 13b under the hood...

someassemblyrequired > 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered 10/21/2018 at 17:09

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It’s awfully tempting to try throwing some coils at a $700 Craigslist “needs work” RX8. They are great looking and driving cars, especially if the price of admission is virtually nil. I bet a NC motor or 2.5 would swap in without a lot of trouble in the  worst case.    

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Maxima Speed 10/21/2018 at 17:55

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As I have told myself: Y ou don’t have to LIKE the LS, but you must RESPECT it.

way2blu does a rev update > Tristan 10/21/2018 at 18:25

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Nothing a flat-brimmed “British Electronics” hat can’t fix...

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 10/21/2018 at 20:33

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Just. Wrong.

The 3.8 DFI in my 997.2 weighs about 200kg or 440lbs fully dressed. The GT3 RS is below 185kg because all the titanium.

The LS1 weighs 500lbs+ fully dressed.

The ONLY weight that matters is fully dressed. End of story. The LS1 is ABSOLUTELY NOT lighter than the all-aluminum sandcast LTG (about 430lbs fully dressed. )

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > someassemblyrequired 10/21/2018 at 20:33

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Prohibition extends double to RX8's.

Learn to work a MoTeC.

someassemblyrequired > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 10/21/2018 at 21:00

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Ha not going to save the unloved ones on Craigslist here with compression issues... Aren’t Motec’s a few grand? Seems like a rebuild with running mix or some of the other cheats might be a more cost effective option, but I can’t really say.   I always get nervous and run away whenever I get tempted by a cheap RX8.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > someassemblyrequired 10/21/2018 at 21:20

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“A few grand.” Oh sweet child...

Compression issues means the owner’s a fuckwit and you’ll be rebuilding the transmission and replacing the fluff that used to be a clutch . Still no reason to swap for anything but a new Renesis .

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 10/21/2018 at 21:28

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I see 467 with auto bellhousing/tc and 497 with manual bellhousing/flywheel. Thats CLOSE to 500lbs, but not over... I was only able to find these numbers repeated for fully dressed, but I did find numbers just for “e ngine weight ”, no other info specified that indicate the pre-DFI engine is somewhat heavier, and that the an aluminum LS is lighter by a margin of ~25lbs. The Turbo obviously adds weight for plumbing, and an LS with a good tune is certainly closer to the Turbo 6 in power... so maybe not a good fit for newer Porsches, but for an early water-cooled 911 it’s not that far off.

The GT3 RS is virtual- unobtanium, so I think it doesn’t really count.

someassemblyrequired > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 10/21/2018 at 21:36

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LOL, guess I’m a touch low on my MoTeC estimate. Probably the secret to RX8 ownership is buying a nice one that’s cheap thanks to the reputation of the lousy ones. Probably the extra 3-4K for a second gen or the small premium for an early higher trim with a 6-port is probably worth it.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 10/22/2018 at 11:39

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That’s. Not. Dressed.

Dressed is complete engine with all harnesses and computers. NO BELLHOUSINGS . LS1 is a pig. Get over it. It’s as stupid as the people who run around saying the cast iron block is stronger because cast iron.

And the GT3 RS parts are literally a phonecall (and emptying several wallets) away. The biggest weight savings items are literally bolt-ons; titanium headers and the intake assembly. And when I say bolt on, I do mean bolt on. Adding 10-20HP to a GTS is as simple as “install GT3 82mm throttle body and run TB calibration.”

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > someassemblyrequired 10/22/2018 at 11:49

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To control an RX8, realistic minimum is an M130. About $2300 bare unit. But you will need a 1.4 development license , add $2600. And L3 logging to go with it, that’s another $530. So yeah, $5400 before your required TCMux expander ($500), knock module ($1000), and I’d likely recommend a DBW4 over E816, so there’s another $1500 either way. Brings us to $8400 and that assumes we can figure out how to drive the stock cluster.

So yeah - the secret is to find the ones that bought it to keep forever and babied it, and are getting screwed by the market. I can state as fact that the RX8's problems are largely dipshit owners and Mazda’s awful interior build quality. The Dorito I rode in had 160k on the clock and zero mechanical issues.

someassemblyrequired > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 10/22/2018 at 11:52

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So about two decent FBs then...

I do think some of their rep is unearned, a buddy had an 04 auto, and he is useless with cars and it treated him just fine (albeit it had a warranty, and this was the PNW).   If any RX8 should have grenaded, it was that one.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 10/22/2018 at 12:45

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YES. YES IT IS. I have found pictures of complete engines one scales WITH ALL ELECTRONICS AND ACCESSORIES AND INTAKE, with a T56 the weight was 609 lBS, the T65 weighs 115 lbs dry, so 609-115=494.

look, I’m not arguing that it isn’t a stupid conversion, I’m just saying that for a an engine of it’s displacement and power the LS1 is actually amazingly compact and light, despite being built with stone-age technology. I don’t even like the goddamn thing, I’m purely talking facts and numbers. Shipping Weight for a turn-key crate Ls1/LS3 is listed as 558 or 550lbs, thats SHIPPING WEIGHT, including crate. There is extensive discussion and measurement on several Miata forums, and a Gen III LS comes in at 437lbs (as weighed on commercial scales) including A/C compressor, alternator, PS pump, waterpump, intake, injectors, bellhousing for T56, accessory brackets and bolts, starter, harness, coils, plugs and ECU. This is a weight minus flywheel (which can vary quite a bit, depending on your choices), headers (again quite variable) and engine mounts. I was unable to find reliable weights for bare headers, but research on emissions-compliant header/cat sets put the low-end about about 48lbs, and the upper end at about 70 (remember, that’s WITH Cats). A Hays’ Billet flywheel comes in at 30lbs, an ACT Prolite XAct at 14.6, and standard GM parts-bin at 16.9.

So we add up: 437 + 48 (remember, that includes Cats) + 16.9 = 501.9. That includes ~19.6 lbs for the A/C Compressor, and 9 pounds for the power-steering pump (broken out in the Miata forums). If you went with a “minimal” build and gave up A/C and PS, and slapped in a light flywheel, we’re looking at ~470. this is still WITH CATS. If you don’t call that “fully dressed” I don’t know what you mean? Is it the lightest engine that ever roamed the earth? No, but you can shave another 30 lbs by going with light pistons, titanium rods, and various other goodies, at a MUCH lower price than the GT3 RS bits. Now thats for Cats and Injection... what if we go for broke and forget emissions compliance and electronics? An aluminum Holley Street Avenger 670 with electric choke weighs 10.5 lbs. A Holley single-plane intake weighs 11.5 lbs... Intake, fuel rails, injectors and harness/electronics come in ~25lbs, so it’s actually only a few lbs less, but you can throw out the Cats and O2 sensors and an MSD ignition setup only weighs a couple pounds... but now we’re really getting into hair splitting in my book... It’s still a remarkably compact and light package. Again, I don’t even LIKE the goddamn things. I think they are the soulless product of a soulless company, and If I had a 911, I’d personally damn well keep the P orsche six in it,  but if you’re going to argue numbers, make sure your facts are straight.