Eclipse the sun

"winterlegacy, here 'till the end" (winterlegacy) 10/20/2018 at 13:04 • Filed to: terrible financial decisions are a way of life

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I’ve been digging around and I’m finding 4th gen Eclipses going for $2000 or less private-party.

God, why am I such a sucker for the Ecli pse? They’re not even one of the final Eclipses with that really nice front fascia, but I still like them.

Send help.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 10/20/2018 at 13:09

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My coworker bought one last year, metallic-orangey. Manual. Motor blew up six weeks later. Good luck!

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 10/20/2018 at 13:14

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that sounds about right

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 10/20/2018 at 13:14

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Gee, there’s one nearby for $600 that ate a timing belt and “will probably need a new motor”.

same energy

Stapleface > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 10/20/2018 at 13:17

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You Know, I don't hate the 4th gen Eclipse. Never driven one though. They certainly looked better than the 3rd gen. 

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Stapleface 10/20/2018 at 13:19

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2nd gen and 3rd gen kind of felt like tween/teenager years, but that could be the 90s jellybean styling talking.

PS9 > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 10/20/2018 at 13:28

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Timing belt? Eww. 

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > PS9 10/20/2018 at 13:29

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Timing belt on an inter ference engine.

Pain and suffering.

PS9 > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 10/20/2018 at 13:42

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Broken timing belt = grenaded engine? Who was allowed to design that and why are they still allowed to work? 

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > PS9 10/20/2018 at 13:44

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In the aim to have better compression in a smaller footprint, someone had the brilliant idea to let the valves intrude on the space of the cylinder.

It’s great until it loses timing.

Amoore100 > PS9 10/20/2018 at 14:10

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But that’s pretty common, 3/4 of our cars are belted interference engines. Obviously it’s a high-risk design, but it’s not inherently flawed unless there’s something else at play.

PS9 > Amoore100 10/20/2018 at 14:15

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Being one broken belt away from a grenaded engine IS an inherent flaw. There's just no bloody reason to chose a design like that when timing chains exist. 

LongbowMkII > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 10/20/2018 at 14:58

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It’s bigger and heavier and more powerful but still onl y FWD. not that the 3rd gen was an enthusiast darling.

I still maintain my post a few years ago was accurate. The hybrid AWD concept would position  the 4th gen as a 3000GT replacement.

Amoore100 > PS9 10/20/2018 at 15:02

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But then how come a huge proportion of the cars on the road today manage to be reliable and dependable with them? I’m not arguing that it’s conceptually very troubling, but I trust that the engineers know their stuff regarding belt application for the most part considering that we once had to replace an engine due to excessive oil consumption but have never had a timing belt failure.

PS9 > Amoore100 10/20/2018 at 15:49

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All of those reliable dependable cars are one failed timing belt away from a totally disabled car and a four figure repair bill. That’s unacceptable. I don’t care if every engineer in the galaxy stands by the design; something as important as engine timing - especially if wrong timing means the difference between a working engine and a paperweight - should not be left up to a belt. The interference timing belt engine needs to join the nylon timing gear in the ‘bad ideas’ section of the automotive fossil record.

Amoore100 > PS9 10/20/2018 at 16:02

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I am just saying that it works and has a better track record than a lot of things. Of course they are fallible , but if that’s the case, why don’t we just see broken down Camrys and Accords everywhere? Sure there are individually poor design decisions like biodegradable wiring harnesses and improperly sized oil channels, but it feels shortsighted as a bystander to label the entire community of automotive engineers as stupid for implementing a critical wear item. They would not have done it if they didn’t have a significant amount of research and trust in its application and even if we have other solutions now, I don’t think they would have used it were it not the best solution in the given circumstances.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > LongbowMkII 10/20/2018 at 16:13

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Even then, I wouldn’t particularly care about going super fast or hucking it. Cruising would more than likely be its purpose.

PS9 > Amoore100 10/20/2018 at 16:43

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I don’t care how many times exactly interference timing belt engines have failed. With this design, you are one failed timing belt away from a totally disabled car and a four figure repair bill. That’s unacceptable and it will remain unacceptable no matter how many times it has or hasn’t happened, no matter how many cars use it, no matter how many engineers swear by it. In a world where the timing chain exists, this is a bad idea. Period.

There’s just no reason to design the potential for critical failure into an engine in this way. It’s a totally avoidable disaster. For those who have dealt with this problem, those well-meaning engineers are not going to swoop in and save them from that sudden four figure repair bill.

They would not have done it if they didn’t have a significant amount of research and trust in its application

Sure they would have. In 1993, GM concluded that building safe gas tanks was more expensive than a lawsuit judgement against them if the design they knew was unsafe failed in a rear-end collision. So they just sold tons of cars and put the driver’s lives at risk knowingly to save a few bucks on every car. You confidence in their good judgement is cute, but these are corporations. If they don’t even value human life, they’re gonna value the money you haven’t given them even less. They would totally sell you a faulty design that will break outside the warranty and liability period to save a few bucks while leaving you with a giant repair bill without so much as a mote of guilt.

Amoore100 > PS9 10/20/2018 at 20:23

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I guess my point is that I am saying it’s a bad idea, but it works and therefore it’s not a huge deal. Am I saying all cars should have timing belts? No. But I am saying that they exist , they work, and it shouldn’t stop you from buying a car that has one. It’s like mentioning that a car without airbags is likely to cause serious injury during an accident. Was it the manufacturer’s fault to not install them ? Yes, but it’s a calculated risk that the owner is willing to make to own that specific vehicle.

Something that also got me a bit worked up was how your initial comment seemed kind of incredulous which I thought was weird considering just about every manufacturer has made cars with belted interference engines, thus the “who” is really the entire industry as a whole. I know that the industry only cares about turning a profit, but I also believe that there is a spectrum of design decisions that have to be made; if it were solely about profit and obsolescence , we’d have Apple cars that are undriveable after 50,000 miles. On the other hand, we don’t have many cars that go for 5,000,000 miles either and thus everything is based on a series of choices of durability versus price. Sure, corners are cut everywhere, but as the motto goes, “Done is better than perfect”, and a car that runs for 200,000 miles with a few timely belt changes is more than good enough in my book.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 10/22/2018 at 07:09

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As long as it’s the 6G75 Mivec powered version, just buy it already.

It’s the most powerful Eclipse ever offered.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Amoore100 10/22/2018 at 07:11

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Big difference:

Proper Maintenance. Most belts are supposed to be changed every 60-100k miles. People who buy Mitsubishi are generally strapped for money, so they don’t maintain them as they should, meaning that $800-1,200 timing belt job never gets done.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > LongbowMkII 10/22/2018 at 07:16

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Honestly, IMO, it’s the best driving Eclipse. Also happens to be the fastest Eclipse.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Stapleface 10/22/2018 at 07:17

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Honest opinion, they are far better to drive than any of their predecessors.

People hate on them because Mitsu gave up on the AWD+turbo layout to give us the fastest, most powerful Eclipse ever offered.