"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
10/13/2018 at 16:04 • Filed to: None
1
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"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
10/13/2018 at 16:04 • Filed to: None | 1
| 45 |
For a continent that on average disparages NASCAR, I’m not totally convinced you guys ever have right-hand corners. Or passing.
Last weekend I installed some NOS Mopar factory ECE headlights in the ZJ. E-codes, in colloquial parlance. To be specific, Europe except UK, France, or Germany. At least per the parts manual. The German ones have driver-adjustable vertical aiming, the French ones are yellow. UK ones obviously are wrong-hand-drive.
I’ve adjusted them as best as I can based on several instructions for e-code aiming I’ve found online, but they just don’t seem right. I’ve driven about 1000 km/ 600miles in the dark, and they’re ok illumination-wise, but they seem to be aimed a little too low for driving. On low beams, I can’t see the left-hand ditch as far ahead as I’m used to. But in city traffic the cutoff sits right around the mirror height on typical sedans, at least on the left side, which from the sounds of it is where they’re supposed to be aimed. On high beam as well they seem to do a better job illuminating the road directly ahead of me, with some illumination of the ditches, but again not as much as I’m used to, and they don’t illuminate much of the road more than 300'/100m in front of me... they almost seem too high in that regard, rather than too low, because I’ve got great illumination approaching hills.
I got these lights because the 27-year-old original lenses were pretty badly yellowed, and I wanted a bit of an upgrade that still looked factory. All the aftermarket solutions I could find are just too Robocop for my liking, which really only left factory options. The glass lenses were a big draw over the DOT-housing’s plastic, and also a lot of people speak very highly of the “E-codes”. Good light with a good cutoff pattern, is what they say. They can run stupidly bright lights without creating problems, they tell me. I’m not convinced.
Can you tell which headlight is still original? Lol
That stupid hockey-stick cutoff pattern that flips light up to the right makes me feel bad for people I’m passing, and I’ve been flashed by about 25% of traffic I’ve encountered on right-handers. Not to mention the reflection off road signs is pretty brutal with low-beams. Although I do appreciate not getting dazzled by them quite so badly with my high beams that only really illuminate the road instead of the ditches. And I also appreciate that they’re not the stupid bright white light of LEDs that really sucks to drive with, especially in winter.
I’ll keep them because they’re still better than the horribly yellowed originals. They do seem like quality units, with glass lenses and ceramic housings, over the original plastic. But I’m still not exactly excited about their performance. Between that and the fact they’re arguably illegal to run here, I really can’t recommend them, unless I’m doing something horribly wrong.
Cé hé sin
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 16:11 |
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Whenever I’ve driven cars in the US the headlights have been terrible, as it happens.
Svend
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 16:23 |
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Grand Cherokee Factory Export E-code Headlamps
GRAND CHEROKEE FACTORY EXPORT E-CODE HEADLAMPS
‘93-’98 Grand Cherokee Factory Export E-code Headlamps: By: Scott Mueller scottmueller@compuserve.com Are you of the opinion that the stock headlights in the ‘93-’98 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) could use some improvement? I am! Fortunately there are dramatically superior headlights available built especially for the GC. I am talking about European E-code export headlights, which take superior H4 halogen bulbs. These lights have a MUCH better light pattern than the US headlamps, specifically they have a sharp light cutoff which lights up the road better and at the same time prevents glare to oncoming drivers. These lamps are installed on GCs used in RH rule (LH drive) European countries like Austria, the Netherlands, and France, which have to meet far more stringent (E-code) lamp quality requirements than here in the US (DOT). Besides the sharp cutoff, there is more light projected up and to the right for illuminating signs and other objects on the shoulder. The H4 bulbs (55/65w) supplied with the lights are brighter than the crappy 9004 bulbs (45/65w) used in the DOT-spec lamps. It’s not just the higher wattage, but also the design and construction of the H4 bulb is better as well. Additionally H4 bulbs are available in more different versions than 9004 bulbs, including higher wattages (I am using 80/100w bulbs), and with different dichroic coatings such as yellow for superior visibility. The E-code lamps also have superior optics in the lens, and are glass instead of the cheap plastic in the DOT-spec lamps. Note that with US spec lamps the higher wattage bulbs combined with the high mounting point for the headlights on the typical SUV results in extreme glare and irritation for oncoming drivers, but with the sharp light cutoff in the E-code lamps, this is not a problem at all! The additional light is kept on the road where it belongs and not in the eyes of oncoming drivers. I have been running E-code export lamps on most of my vehicles for years. Once you’ve had E-code lamps on your vehicle, you will not be able to stand the crummy US DOT spec. lamps anymore! The installation is simple, the new lights physically install as direct snap-in replacements for the old ones, so it takes about 5 minutes to snap out the old ones and snap-in the export units. The only other changes required are to splice on the proper connectors. I made adapters with both connector ends so I can run either the export or US lamps as I choose. The export lights use H4 bulbs which are superior to the 9004 bulbs used in the US lamps. The H4 connectors are the same as the older style sealed beam connectors and are available at any auto parts store. The export lamps light the road evenly in a much wider pattern, with a sharp cutoff that prevents blinding oncoming or proceeding drivers (even with brighter high wattage bulbs), and the additional light to the sides, especially the RH shoulder, is incredible. They also have glass lenses which are optically more distortion free and remain clear, cloud and scratch-free throughout their life, and which can also take the heat of high wattage bulbs better. There are several factory part numbers for E-code lamps for the Grand Cherokee, but only one of them fits properly on US vehicles. The different lamps are listed in the dealer parts books as: -US (LH drive) -Germany (RH drive) -Europe (RH drive) -Europe other than England (LH drive) -Japan (RH drive) Of course you want LH drive (referring to the fact that the steering wheel is on the left side of the vehicle and you drive on the right hand side of the road) lamps as the others are for people who drive on the “wrong” side of the road , and have the light pattern adjusted accordingly. Using the wrong ones will result in a light pattern that blinds oncoming traffic. While the “Germany” and the “Europe other than England” lamps are both LH drive like the US lamps, only the “Europe other than England” ones are a direct physical replacement for the US lamps. As an example somebody I know accidentally purchased the German spec. versions which unfortunately aren’t a direct snap-on fit. To get them to work they had to kludge up the mounts by grinding and epoxying the US mounting clips to the rear of the lamps. Even then they wouldn’t fit properly, mainly because the US mounting system requires one of the clips to slide in a captive rail in order to move up and down to accommodate the lamp adjustment. In the end the fit was unsatisfactory and the expensive lamps had to be changed out for the proper ones. The German spec. lamps have different mounting provisions due to the in-dash adjuster used on German vehicles. The proper “Europe other than England” lamps are what I installed on my GC and they snap *directly* on the standard US adjuster mounts with no modifications required. They have the same sliding clip and are a direct interchange for the US lamps. For your reference, those are: P/N Description Note ————————————————————————————————— 55055124 ‘93-’98 ZJ LH
There is further info on the website via the link.
boxrocket
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 16:45 |
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Why didn’t you just sand, polish, and clearcoat the originals?
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Cé hé sin
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 16:53 |
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This is what we’re talking about.
I’d guess what they call “European beam” is actually “everywhere except North America”
The American setup doesn’t seem to illuminate the side of the road properly but the rest of the world setup doesn’t seem dazzling to me and it’s the only one I see....
duurtlang
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 16:56 |
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Are you sure you aimed them correctly? EU ones have a very different pattern than US ones, so they might need to be aimed different from what you're use to as well. Given that these are 'only' H4 lights you should not be flashed by other traffic, unless they are aimed incorrectly.
UserNotFound
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 17:22 |
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I installed e-codes on my ZJ and it took me a few tries to get an alignment I’m happy with. Also the big plastic structure in the front end is broken so one hangs a bit wonky.
But , over all, I’m very happy with them. Hope you can play with adjustments a bit more and get good results.
(Pic is before final adjustments ... but it's pretty so hey)
dogisbadob
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 17:26 |
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That’s because the ECE regulations are written by engineers, whereas ours are written by lobbyists.
The idea with the E-codes is that all cars have the same headlight height in the beam pattern. That is, lifted trucks and Jeeps that are higher up will be aimed lower, and slammed sports cars will be aimed not as low. The aim is linked to the height at which the lights are mounted.
That means euro bros rollin coal won’t blind everyone else on the road like the hicks we have here.
In fact, the US headlight
regulations suck so bad that Canada, and even a few US states, including Mass and Washington, actually specifically allow ECE lights.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Svend
10/13/2018 at 18:56 |
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Yeah. I found that before I started out . I have no idea what he’s talking about re the part numbers... the ones he recommends aren't in the parts manual. There was no kludgeing to get mine to fit, they're genuine Mopar parts, with the numbers stamped on them. The adjusters work fine.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Cé hé sin
10/13/2018 at 19:37 |
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What exactly makes them different, though? Is it where the light goes or how much there is?
I’ll point out I know the technical differences between the two, and what they’re supposed to accomplish. What I want to know is how the US lights seemed to be lacking, because while I’m finding that they illuminate the road itself quite well, they don’t do much for anything else. That anything else is pretty important.
Basucally, on low beams the green is what I’m used to have being illuminated, but I’m only getting the red. But I’ve done the “park next to a wall” thing as per this: https://audi.humanspeakers.com/headlight-aiming.htm and it’s pretty well bang on.
And that other light blob you posted, that's a single beam. That kick up on the right side is annoying as all hell when you come up to a highway sign.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> UserNotFound
10/13/2018 at 19:52 |
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Do you have any photos of your pattern? I’ll have to take some in a couple hours when it’s dark
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> dogisbadob
10/13/2018 at 19:54 |
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I aimed them per this: https://audi.humanspeakers.com/headlight-aiming.htm
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> boxrocket
10/13/2018 at 19:59 |
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Because that's annoying and time consuming, and I wanted to try something new?
Cogito_Ergo_Ieiunium
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/13/2018 at 21:19 |
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Hi,
I love the article! I completely appreciate your want to upgrade your headlights while keeping a fairly stock look, but also being mind for other drivers, that’s very considerate. I did the same with an old SAAB I owned, many years ago, I went to e code headlights and I know exactly what you mean. It’s strange to si mply have that large uptick to the right, and it does become distracting when you pass road signs after you’ve been driving in the dark for a while. I don’t understand how auto manufacturers aren’t more conscious of lighting, many try to be good at it but very few have done a good job. I’m excited to hear about the new NHTSA laws that plan to permit new adaptive lighting in the United States. although, I will say, the. She has her head up their ass when it comes to this led fad, the LED marker lights sometimes are brighter than the headlights and extremely distracting to oncoming motorists. The new jeeps and Ford's actually seem to have 6 headlights of people have your fog lights on and it's a very annoying! Good article, cheers :-)
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> duurtlang
10/14/2018 at 02:06 |
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https://audi.humanspeakers.com/headlight-aiming.htm
That’s the process I used to aim them.
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Cé hé sin
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/14/2018 at 08:43 |
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US lights are different to the rest of the world in that they allow more glare, take no account of height and require more light to be directed directly ahead. As I understand it the differences are down to lens and reflector design and t he bulbs are the same.
US lights don’t require a sharp cut off, but it is allowed so in theory you may be able to
have a light that could be used everywhere.
Rock Bottom
> boxrocket
10/14/2018 at 09:03 |
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Makes perfect sense for something you’re trying to sell or limp-along but i t’s a temporary fix, unfortunately. I did this on a WJ a few years ago and they turned cloudy again in less than a year. Someone here said they don’t live long once the factory UV coating was sanded off. I guess that makes as much sense as anything I could come up with !
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boxrocket
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/14/2018 at 09:14 |
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Fair enough, I was just curious.
I actually sh
opped for E-codes for my 1990 Volvo when I had it: the light pattern SUCKED,
higher-end bulbs just made the color whiter and brightness slightly better (but no more fill or throw)
, plus the plastic inboard fog lamps (between the headlamp and grille) were foggy so
I got tired of sanding and polishing them every year or so, and I think the E-codes
look
better. Plus then I could
have added those tiny wiper blades to the front of the car for that full ‘80s/’90s European effect.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Cé hé sin
10/14/2018 at 12:36 |
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Sorry, let me rephrase that. I know the technical differences between the two. What I’m asking is how you personally found the US lights to be lacking.
If you go back to your overlaid blobs diagram, you can kinda see what I’m complaining about. I’m totally cool with the sharp cutoff idea, it all makes sense. Especially the part where you’re not blinding oncoming traffic, because that’s very definitely a problem. I live in the land of the bro-truck, it’s annoying as all hell.
But where I live is also a place where the stuff that steps out onto the road in front of you isn’t the weedy little whitetails everyone complains about in the US. M ule deer, elk, moose, the odd caribou... And when I’m going down the road at 100km/h, I kinda need to be able to see what’s going on in the ditches, and I’m currently pretty well blind on the left hand side. The high beams get a little better but not by much. And that kick up on the right side of the beam seems seriously dumb, too. I don’t need that reflecting off signs at me, and it’s pretty much a beam directed straight up at oncoming cars if I’m taking a right-hand corner. And aiming my lights up a little to compensate for problem A is probably only going to make problem B worse. Maybe European drivers are used to being blinded by oncoming cars in corners, and North American drivers aren’t?
The old yellowed DOT lights may have been pretty dim in comparison, but at least they dimmly illuminated the parts of the road I needed to see, and I never got flashed by oncoming traffic.
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UserNotFound
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/14/2018 at 14:01 |
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No, I couldn't get any good pictures. I'll try again some time soon.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> UserNotFound
10/14/2018 at 15:02 |
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Yeah I totally blanked on it too. Whoops.
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Cé hé sin
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/14/2018 at 16:42 |
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It was quite a few years ago so maybe down to the model of car, but as I recall they were just rubbish - dim and no proper dip pattern. Dip seemed to just equal dim.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Cé hé sin
10/15/2018 at 05:31 |
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Well I mean we do call them brights, and we call it dimming here, not dipping, haha.
Maybe that’s what my issue is. I’m used to just having a general wash of scattered light that goes everywhere, albeit dimmly. I’ll have to take another crack at adjusting them properly once space had cleared up inside the shop at work. I’ve been doing it outside aimed at the wall, but the yard is only “reasonably” level. I did aim the left up a hair and the right down a touch, which seems to have helped a little. At least I’m not blinding myself on signs, and no one flashed me on the way up .
But the left ditch is still pretty well blind. Like I said, I think the cutoff is the issue I’m having with them. I live in the world’s second-largest dark sky preserve, so there’s basically no light pollution, and on an overcast night, no illumination beyond my headlights. Over the 100 or so km through what I’ve come to call Frac-Land where there is pretty extreme light pollution, things were alright. But for the other 400km of the trip with minimal or no light pollution, it’s like the contrast between the brightly illuminated highway and the almost completely dark ditches is just too much for my eyes to handle. They need to be able to somewhat adjust to the dark in order to see the ditches, but the bright road surface is too bright to allow them to do that. But when the lights are scattered and dim everywhere, that’s not really an issue because there’s not all that much more light on the road than there is in the ditches, if you get what I’m saying. I came the closer to hitting a deer, and also a coyote, tonight than I have for a loooong time. They both just darted out across the road, and I had no idea they were even there until they stepped out onto the road. I’ve never had an issue seeing in the dark, or seeing things in the ditches, to the point where with a mostly full moon I almost never even bothered with the brights, even with low-grade sealed beams.
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UserNotFound
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/16/2018 at 16:42 |
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So here’s fogs, low
+ fogs, and high + fogs. You can see how the right-side swoop-up lights up the silver car. It does a pretty good job illuminating signs (which I prefer).
These are German e-codes. I haven’t had a chance to get a pick of the pattern up against a wall yet.
I definitely set the cutoff lower than the factory (even Euro factory) recommendations. My wife drives a lowered F
ocus so I pulled up behind it and adjusted downwards until the cutoff was at the bottom of the rear glass. That way I’m not blinding anybody while sitting in traffic in the city.
I haven’t had anybody flash their highs at me, and I’m pretty happy with what I’m seeing (especially compared to the originals, which I had to replace because the lenses fell off one day).
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> UserNotFound
10/16/2018 at 18:19 |
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That’s more or less what I’ve got going on. Your photo is a bit misleading initially because you’re so far over to the left of the road, but it does seem pretty similar to what I have once I realized that. I also don’t have fog lights on the base model, and I don’t really want to add them because then what good is a base model? I’ve got mine to the point where the bend in the left cutoff is just below and to the right of a Malibu’s left hand mirror while sitting at a red light, so I don’t really want to go for more up or out, but where they’re lacking really is that spot on the left. I’d like a bit more light where that car’s sitting in the driveway, which is roughly where the left ditch on a highway would be I think. If I’m lucky I’ll catch eyeshine off something there, but I had two close encounters with something running out from there that I was totally blind to, a coyote and a deer. The dimmer DOTS with their scattered light did at least give me some faint illumination there. But it has me thinking a ton about historical driving environments, light pollution in particular.
If you check out a light pollution map, you’ll notice a huge disparity between Europe and North America, in particular the western portions of the US and Canada.
I live right in the middle of the big dark spot just above the N in North America. But my commute takes me up into the bright area just above it, a part of the world I’ve come to know as frack-land, which is pretty well a study on light pollution in excess. In the brighter part of the trip, I’ve got no issues with the ecodes. But closer to home, I really can’t see much at all outside where the headlights hit, because there isn’t any extra light to be had. The DOTS were scattered and dim , but the scattered light did at least get into those dark spaces, and the sharp cutoff of the ecodes by design does not.
I’m going to keep the ecodes in, but I don’t think they’re what’s best for me in this specific context. They’re still mostly better than the dim yellowed originals, but just not designed for my environment.
I was going to write up a ton more info, but it's better suited for its own post.
BigBlock440
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/28/2018 at 12:15 |
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Definitely, if there’s a lot of ambient light, your eyes adjust and you’re not blinded by brighter lights and can still see the sides of the road reasonably well. If you’re out in the sticks, dimmer lights will let your eyes adjust to see further out, and you can see off the road better than lights with a sharp cutoff.
Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/28/2018 at 12:45 |
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I wish I could find the Euro glass lense headlights for my van...
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/28/2018 at 14:58 |
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The more I handled these the less convinced I am that they’re actually glass. I'm about 20% suspicious they might be polycarbonate, but I don't know of any non-destructive test . But the reflector is definitely chromed ceramic.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> BigBlock440
12/28/2018 at 15:02 |
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Where I live there’s literally no ambient light other than the moon and stars . I can barely pick up eyeshine with the E- codes .
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BigBlock440
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/28/2018 at 15:20 |
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I believe it, anything outside of the cutoff and you’ll never see it. I strongly dislike the cutoff.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> BigBlock440
12/28/2018 at 15:24 |
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Yeah, me too.
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BigBlock440
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/28/2018 at 15:45 |
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Try scratching with something softer like brass or copper , glass is hard and not likely to scratch unless you use something too hard . It might scratch if they have a coating though.
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Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/28/2018 at 16:08 |
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I know the vans and cars (chrysler saratoga) had glass lenses in euro markets, don’t know if it’s true of all mopars of the era though.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> BigBlock440
12/28/2018 at 16:09 |
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That's what I would call a destructive test. With my climate they get subjected to pretty extreme heat cycling, and cracks aren't something I want to deal with.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/28/2018 at 16:18 |
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I know everyone says they’re glass, but I also know it’s not always easy to distinguish between glass and polycarbonate, and my trust of random people saying things on the internet isn’t particularly high. To me, they seem like glass from looking at them , but tapping them with my fingernail doesn’t make them feel like it. Super scientific, I know. Crown makes repops of the ECEs and many North American retailers carry them, but I was thinking the NOS Mopars were more likely to be real glass than the repops.
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Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/28/2018 at 16:47 |
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I’ve yet to be able to find any. Quite sick of headlights hazing/yellowing, so if I could pick up a set I’d be quite happy.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/28/2018 at 18:40 |
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Were the first-gen vans sold in ECE-compliant markets? When I was in Paris in 2008 I remember seeing a bunch of the NS and RS vans, but nothing earlier, although there were European vans of earlier vintages cruising around.
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BigBlock440
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/29/2018 at 15:45 |
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It wouldn’t be a crack, just a light scratch somewhere out of the way. You don’t even need to apply that much pressure, either it’ll scratch or it won’t, and you’ll have your answer.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> BigBlock440
12/29/2018 at 23:47 |
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Scratches make weak points that turn into cracks in glass during rapid heating and cooling cycles. Just like a chip in t he windshield. Those bulbs get pretty darn hot, and after sitting overnight the glass will typically be below °F. I'm not curious enough to take a slight chance.
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BigBlock440
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/30/2018 at 21:06 |
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That’s fine, but a chip is much, much deeper and is from an impact. The scratch you’d be doing isnt’s deep, any deeper than the scratches you’ve already got all over your windshield, and that hasn’t cracked yet (or at least it wasn’t caused by a scratch). The shape and corners of the light will create much, much higher stress concentrations than any scratch would. Also, what do you think happens after a few hundred miles of driving? a couple of rocks, a cloud of dust, and you’re way worse off than a small scratch from a copper wir
e. And again, the point is, if it’s glass, it’s not going to scratch, if it’s plastic, it will. I’m not trying to tell you to break your headlights if you think that’s what’ll happen, I’m just saying it’s not anywhere near as big of a deal as you think, and if your headlight cracked from a tiny, shallow
scratch, it’d likely be the first one in history to have done so.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> BigBlock440
12/30/2018 at 21:40 |
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I don’t care whether it’s unlikely or not. I don’t want to risk having to fix something just because I did something dumb to it. Rock chips and tiny scratches happen over time, sure, but I’m not going to deliberately damage something I paid good money for that I need, just for the sake of satisfying your own curiosity . Go buy your own if you’re so desperate to find out.
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Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/31/2018 at 06:57 |
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It’d be 2nd gen, the AS body. I’m pretty sure they were, but I could be mistaken.
I know the AA body cars were.
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BigBlock440
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
12/31/2018 at 11:55 |
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It’s not my curiosity , it’s yours. You asked for a way to tell if it’s glass, I gave you a way to tell. I don’t really care if you do it or not, I don’t care if your lights are glass or plastic, I’m just telling you that your fears are unfounded, if you really want to know, scratch away, it’ll be fine.
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> BigBlock440
12/31/2018 at 14:17 |
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You seem pretty keen on knowing if I tell you twice I don’t care if you think it won’t hurt it to scratch it and that I’m not going to do that, yet you keep trying to get me to do it. It's not happening bud.
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BigBlock440
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
01/02/2019 at 12:47 |
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I don’t think it won’t hurt it, I know it won’t hurt it. I don’t care if find out your headlight s are glass or not. I’m just trying to explain to you that you’re not going to get hit by a meteor because you went swimming in the ocean
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> BigBlock440
01/02/2019 at 14:32 |
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You’re sure pretty insistent for someone who doesn’t care, dude. It's not happening.