Confession......

"jkm7680" (jkm7680) 09/22/2015 at 21:14 • Filed to: None

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If I were to ever to purchase something along the lines of a Porsche 928, or BMW 8-Series V12, I’d probably have it in automatic flavor. Both of those cars are more grand tourers than anything and nothing is added or subtracted to the car by the transmission that comes attached to it.

I’m a bit of a manual snob from time to time, I admit it. Even though I honestly don’t want to be one. There’s nothing wrong with driving an automatic car and making people feel bad for not wanting to have a manual transmission car isn’t cool. I’d like to always have at least one car with manual transmission, but who knows.

There’s just certain cars that I’d have to have with manual transmission, then certain cars that I honestly could care less if they were manual or not. For instance, I wouldn’t have bought my A6 if it wasn’t equipped with a 6-speed manual transmission, but if I was to buy a 928 I honestly could care less what transmission it had. Still an awesome car, not changing that.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:20

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I get it sometimes you just want to sit back and relax. If you want an exciting driving experience buy a 944, if you want to be comfortable, and have enough power that you never need to put your foot down, well that’s what a GT car is for.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:20

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This green on the 928 is gorgeous.

My citroen won't start > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:23

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I have a similar feeling. I’d never buy an S/RS car with an auto transmission (not the S8 though). But my favorite Ferrari would have to be an auto.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:24

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For me, weight is the decider. Lighter cars are more fun with a manual. Less than 3000 lbs, manual is the only choice. 3000 to 3500, great in a performance car. 3500 to 4000, only a few exceptions for really slick cars. 4000+, never.

Alex B > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:25

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My neighbor had a 928, but IIRC it was a manual. Totally understand what you’re saying though.

jkm7680 > Alex B 09/22/2015 at 21:26

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Nice, what color was it?

Alex B > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:27

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Red.

Delta Five Nine > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:28

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Currently owning a car that’s few merits include great highway ride and is also automatic, I’ll never be happy with a full, traditional auto. At the very least, need to be able to force it to kick down gears on command (even slowly) for certain situations (passing).

Not the biggest fan of not being able to use full throttle range in every gear either, since sometimes I want to hold in 1st while I turn and sometimes I want to casually throttle on at high gear.

jkm7680 > Alex B 09/22/2015 at 21:29

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Nice!

Alex B > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:31

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Yep! It’s long gone though.

DrScientist > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:42

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100% agree.

xjs v12 manuals are nearly impossible to find. there may be a couple dozen in the country, but the power delivery with the auto is like riding one of the slow rollers across waikiki beach. i have no idea how a manual would change this.

the 928 on the other hand... i drove a number of manuals and autos. different beasts. (fairly easy to find a pre-s4 manual.) and the 5 speed really allows you to explore the rpms. its also super easy to break the tires loose. i went with a 5 speed, because one popped up in my area with all the right boxes checked for the right money. but i definitely would have taken an auto if this red one wasnt so close to me.

both cars, are/were relegated to long haul highway driving. ~100miles each way between nyc and philly, 1-2x/week.

ps: 850 may be my next purchase.

jkm7680 > DrScientist 09/22/2015 at 21:43

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Awesome cars!

My father used to have an XJ similar to that. I’ve still got the cassette that came with it new from the Jag dealer. Great car, but deathly unreliable.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 21:57

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I’d go with a manual if only for the mechanical reliability of the manuals over the automatics. Also, I’ve reached a point in my driving career where its actually more of a burden to me to drive an automatic because I have to spend a fair amount of brainpower to not attempt to push the clutch or shift. Driving stick is almost 100% automatic though, for any normal driving, I am on auto-pilot as far as shifting is concerned.

I also tend to keep cars for quite some time and don’t believe in owning a car I don’t put miles on.

itschrome > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 22:05

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I completely agree. GT cars are about riding in style with power and the luxury to take it all in. They are touring cars, it’s all about cruising and laying down the miles as you fly through the country side on meandering back roads and country high ways. I don’t want to be bothered with shifting gears whilet I smoke my cigar and fondle my lady friend in the passengers seat. Plus gear knows really get in the way of road head.. just saying.

But really I don’t see the point of a manual in anything that’s not a true sports car or economy box. Manuals are about better economy or sportiness to me. Neither of those are things I really care about in either a GT or luxury car.

JR1 > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 22:15

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It is not a sin to own an auto GT car. However there is something incredibly special about a manual V12 GT car.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 09/22/2015 at 22:38

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My daily. 3727 lb. 5-speed manual. I can has exception for really slick car?

Seriously, though, I’m with you when it comes to sports cars/GT’s. I’ve driven some heavy cars with manuals. At some point as weight goes up the manual just becomes a chore.

For my slug the 5MT does wring a little more out of the undersized 2.7L V6 than the optional 4A. Also it was hilariously cheap to buy, because nobody in their right mind wants one.

LongbowMkII > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 22:39

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It’s true not everything needs a manual but I think a GT does. I couldn’t imagine doing a nice undulating curvy highway without a stick. If you’re sticking to the interstate you may as well get a sedan/wagon.

Nauraushaun > jkm7680 09/22/2015 at 22:41

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I can see the appeal of a manual. What if you want to stretch the legs of the engine, rev out that glorious V12? Do you want some auto short-shifting at 4k RPM with that gross droney transmission sound?

I can see the appeal of an auto for these cars, but I can see the appeal of a manual too :) My 300ZX is considered a bit of a tourer, but I’d never have that with a 4sp auto.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 09/23/2015 at 02:13

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Underpowered? Here are my last two manual-transmission equipped cars, both around 3400 lbs and with HP ranging from 157 to 168:

The 525i has almost no power below 4,000 RPM so that motor (M20) and an automatic are a dreadful combo, even with a Dinan chip. The Mazda5 with an auto isn’t bad, but it is quicker (half second faster 0-60, but that probably has more to due with the change in final drive ratio fro 3.458 to 4.31) and more fun with the 6MT.

If you’ve got plenty of power and most of your driving is not at speed through the twisties, an automatic is probably fine. These two cars don’t exactly fit in the ‘plenty of power’ category; the Mazda is sufficient, but the BMW needs an extra 50 or so.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > itschrome 09/23/2015 at 02:18

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It’s not a sports car, so does that make it an economy box? I like to think of it as the best of both worlds.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > itschrome 09/23/2015 at 22:33

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What about big pick ups? Not semis just like a Ram 2500. I drove an 06 Ram with a Cummins and a 6 speed manual. it was a BLAST!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 09/23/2015 at 22:36

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It is funny how much cheaper SOME cars are with a manual trans. There is one manual 2010 Ford Ranger for sale near me. The dealership keeps lowering the price because no one wants a stick, it’s now been sittingfor almost a year, and the price has dropped from 18k to 14,500. it’s a super nice truck to. XLT, 4x4, 4.0l v6, maroon paint in great shape, extended cab, and only 37,xxx miles.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 09/24/2015 at 00:11

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Yeah sometimes the combination of the model and the location is just toxic for dealers. The problem I have is that I see them falling and never jump on the deal before someone else does. The dealer I bought my Subaru at also does Mazda and a few months ago they had a CPO 2014 Mazda6 with the 6MT listed at $18k. I watched the asking price slowly drop to $14k, but by the time I had a chance to go take a look someone else had snagged it. Probably let it go for somewhere between 12 and 13. That’s a crazy good deal for a 2 year old car with essentially a new car warranty just because nobody here wants them. Meanwhile used 2013-14 Accord 4-doors with the manual around here are all listed at pretty much the same price as a brand new one.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 09/24/2015 at 00:19

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How is the Mazda5 to own? I’ve considered getting one with the 6MT several times, basically for the same reason as I bought the Hyundai - you can get low mileage ones cheap and I’m going to run it into the ground so I don’t care what the resale is like after I get it. But I just can’t get passed the feeling that I would think it was too slow after owning it for a while.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 03:34

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20-25 years ago a 0-60 time of 8.3 seconds was quite quick; that’s over half a second faster than my 525i and probably on par with a W124 300E. Think about this for a moment - that’s 0.1 second slower than a 214 HP 1981 Ferrari Mondial 8 (8.2 seconds via Motor Trend, but 9.3/9.4 from C&D and R&T). A Ferrari, of all things, could be blown away by an inexpensive minivan. The $17K I spent on the 5 is probably the price of a timing belt and tire change on the Ferrari. Today people are complaining that this time is too high, and I just don’t get it. I’m frequently stuck behind people leisurely accelerating on the on ramps despite having 300+ HP, so how much power do you need when you’re at the mercy of others on the road? I drive it solo most of the time, so perhaps I’m not the best judge of what normal performance would be with a full load, but even when I’ve had 6 people inside I never once felt that I was an obstacle on the road. Its 157HP is just fine, with plenty of torque. The engine is smooth and loves to rev, so zipping it up to redline is quite enjoyable (I drove our squadron’s Econoline a few weeks back and I hated the sound as you approached 3000 RPM - it was not happy doing that), and the transmission and clutch are pleasant to operate; no, they don’t feel as good as those in the BMW, but this is a much less expensive car. How often to you drive at full throttle? How often do you drive like you’re being timed? It’s by no means over powered, but it isn’t under powered either. We’re talking about 2.5 liters here, and it’s tuned for torque. Way too often I find myself unintentionally chirping the wheels off the line due to the torque and tall final drive ratio, even after driving it for almost three years.

It’s a little louder than I would like it to be, but considering that Mazda builds cars with sporting character, that’s OK. This is not a vehicle that isolates you from the driving experience. Maybe someday I’ll throw some Dynamat in, but it’s OK - it’s nothing like a soft-top Wrangler, but it’s no Mercedes either (closer to the Mercedes than the Wrangler).

On occasion I’ve had to drive my friend’s Passat SEL and I am reminded why some cars cost more. And I think back to the 525i and how solid that car was. The Mazda5 is a simple car based on an economy car chassis (think of it as a slightly longer and taller Mazda3) and obviously isn’t going to be refined as a luxury sedan. It does strike me as being better than what I should expect for something that only set me back $17K new. Sure, there’s more noise than a VW or BMW, and sure, the interior materials aren’t on par with those, but it’s in a different segment entirely. I will say that even as the most basic model in the lineup, I find that it is equipped quite nicely as compared to the 525i. Automatic climate control, steering wheel audio controls, traction and stability control, TPMS and remote control unlocking weren’t on my 525i, for example (and it was fully loaded), yet they’re standard on this cheap minivan; I guess that’s what 23 years (and a few legal requirements) will do.

In the US, if you want the manual, you do have to give up some of the goodies on the upper models, but if you’re handy you can add them in yourself. I found a $300 Bluetooth kit on eBay and got it for $20. I use my iPhone and a copy of DashCommand to give me trip computer (and several other) functions. 2013 models have USB and iPod integration, but since I bought the dealer’s 2012 loss-leader, I had to add those myself. I did get a factory stereo with the 6-disc changer on eBay for $10 instead of paying the dealer $600. I wanted cloth so I’m not disappointed that I didn’t get leather. $50 got me a nice leather steering wheel off eBay, but finding a factory leather shift knob is going to cost twice that, sadly. The headlights are great, so I don’t mind the lack of HIDs. I did add the seat heaters via Amazon. Fog lights don’t do enough to warrant the $350 they would set me back; I could put some in but I don’t need them, and they’re just another thing to break (especially when you consider how close they are to the ground). I didn’t want a sunroof, so the absence of one is just fine by me. Yeah, these things aren’t as well integrated as the factory equivalents, but if it’s a choice between a manual and some toys that will break I’ll take the manual every single time.

I like the combination of a practical shape and sliding doors with the manual transmission and so I plan on keeping this thing forever. Every household needs to have at least one practical vehicle. I’d like to get a Miata and keep the 5 for those times when I need the larger vehicle.

As far as reliability is concerned I’m quite pleased. The engine mounts wore out and were replaced under warranty, but that’s been it for unscheduled repairs. It has never failed me, never left me stranded. Even when I made the mistake of driving through a huge puddle on the highway it still ran, although in limp-home mode. Once I dried out the air filter (Mazda repair recipe: take one air filter, bake at 170 degrees for six hours and reinstall) everything was right back to normal.

Keep your expectations reasonable and you won’t be disappointed. My previous vehicle was a Ford Windstar (hey - I got it for free, OK?) and it was just an appliance. I derived absolutely -zero- pleasure from driving it - revs, cornering, shifting, braking - it hated them all. Like the squadron’s Econoline, it did what it needed to do and absolutely no more - completely uninspired and uninspiring. The Mazda5 may be a practical vehicle, but it hasn’t forgotten that driving can be more than point A to point B. I smile when I see it, and I look forward to driving it every opportunity I can get, especially if I can forgo the highways and take some back roads. How many minivan owners can say that about their vehicle?

itschrome > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 09/24/2015 at 10:45

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I have no opinion on that. But it seems it might be good for economy and towing maybe?? I dunno.. I have no opinions on big trucks