Would you still buy a VW?

"CB" (jrcb) 09/21/2015 at 17:18 • Filed to: Questions

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To put it lightly, shit is kicking off at VW right now. And I don’t think that many people are going to be buying TDIs in the future without a whole lot of convincing, even if VW fixes things up. But this raises a question: would you still buy one?

I mean, there are plenty of people that are VW fans and would probably stick with the brand, no matter what. And VW also makes plenty of non-diesel vehicles (although this begs the question: have they been cutting corners anywhere else?).

So tell me, Oppositelock, could you still see yourself VW? Personally, I could still see myself buying a GTI or an R, but they’ve definitely fallen further down in my list of cars I would like to own.

Saracen > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:21

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I would probably still buy one, just not the GSW TDI I bought two months ago. GSW TSI, GTI or another R.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:22

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Sure, why not.

crowmolly > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:22

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If by some random stroke of luck they offer a buyback I’d turn mine in and roll over the $ into a new TDI.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:23

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Yes. If I was in the market for a VW, with my present attitude, don't care.

Officer Jim Lahey is not a real cop > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:23

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Sure, I suspect there’ll be some enticing deals ahead.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:23

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Yes. You don't have to buy a TDI, and their best car is the GTI, which is gas-powered.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:24

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Yeah, totally. The EPA is a pointless waste of tax dollars, as their recent spill points out, so disobeying them is fine by me.

bob and john > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:24

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oh yea.

emissions e-shissions. lets be honest, most of us would tune the car and the emissions would be a moot point.

as for the whole sneaking around the EPA: let be honest, EPA is also stuck so far up their own behind that they are trying to test their own emissions.

VW is staying right where it is on my list. if anything,. i’m laughing because they showed everyone who kept bitching that they cant make a decent electrical system whats what :D

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:25

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Possibly...

Leon711 > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:26

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to be honest, it makes no difference at all to me. There’s worse out there, the EU emissions test has been gamed by hybrids for years and it’s no secret that manufacturers prepare their cars specifically for the test.

It’s like cheating in motorsport, it’s only bad if you get caught.

The Ghost of Oppo > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:26

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I’d be afraid some hippie group would do the equivalent of throwing red paint on fur coats

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:27

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I’ve wanted a GTI for years now..this doesn’t change my want

zeontestpilot > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:28

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If I had the money, yes. Mpg is all I'm concern about in diesels.

Sam > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:29

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I have no problem buying from them. Now if you were to ask me to work for them, that is not something I would risk doing.

Tripper > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:30

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I still would, and I agree with most of the anti-EPA sentiment here too. I have never purchased a car with any sort of “efficiency” in mind (gas mileage, emissions, etc...). I only care about how it drives, and a little how it looks;)

ttyymmnn > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:31

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I am looking to replace my 01 Golf, and was considering another one. I still am, as I wasn’t planning on looking at a diesel.

But here’s a follow up question: Will the Diesel Debacle have any effect on the prices of their gasoline cars?

CB > ttyymmnn 09/21/2015 at 17:36

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I think there will be. This’ll probably have a ripple effect.

DasWauto > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:40

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Yup, bought a gas-powered VW almost a year ago, would do so again, though maybe a GTI next time.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:41

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Well now thatthey will be going on sale, maybe.

not for canada - australian in disguise > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:42

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The only VW product I like is the Golf, and I’d still buy a Golf even with this, just a TSI/GTI/R instead of a TDi.

Textured Soy Protein > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:43

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Personally, the fact that VW cheated on a test that does not affect the safety, fuel efficiency, or reliability of the vehicle doesn’t really concern me, nor would it affect my choice to buy one.

To me, this is no different than GM putting that 1-4 skip shift on their manual transmission V8 cars to avoid the gas guzzler tax. Slight tweak to pass the test that you as the owner can quickly disable after buying the car. Except VW is kind enough to do the disabling for you, how convenient!

Yeah the cars are polluting more than they should be but it’s not an actual safety issue or something that would cost me as the consumer more money.

Then again, I disliked VW already so it’s not like I was chomping at the bit to buy one of their cars in the first place.

MultiplaOrgasms > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:46

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Never been a fan of VAG, its one of the few manufacturers to leave me mostly cold, but that may be because the best selling car in my country has always been a Volkswagen since 1945, with the exception of 1975 and 1980. If the Golf alone outsells the second best selling car (which is the Passat) by the factor four, you get tired very quickly.

djmt1 > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:47

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Nope. I’d buy a Seat since they have orange wheels. Plus they are the same thing underneath but cheaper, faster and with orange wheels. Plus everyone has a VW these days which don’t have orange wheels.

CB > Textured Soy Protein 09/21/2015 at 17:47

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Thing is, I’d argue that having half a million cars pumping out forty times the legal limit of nitrogen oxide (which causes respiratory issues after prolonged exposure) is a safety hazard.

Richtofen, Baron von Pickup > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:52

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I like their ingenuity; it benefited the customer until someone figured it out.

TractorPillow > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:52

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No. I’d suggest shorting their stock though.

Textured Soy Protein > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:52

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I get what you’re saying but in my case by safety I meant crashworthiness/not shutting itself off at inopportune times/generally not causing injury to its driver and passengers.

jariten1781 > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:56

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Nope, but not because of the diesel debacle...because my 2010 GTI has been the biggest PITA car, produced after 1990, I’ve ever owned. Whenever I get rid of that I'm completely washing my hands of the company.

Tareim - V8 powered > djmt1 09/21/2015 at 17:56

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jkm7680 > CB 09/21/2015 at 17:58

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I honestly don’t care about that incident. It’s not like they pulled a General Motors and tried to cover up deaths.

djmt1 > Tareim - V8 powered 09/21/2015 at 18:01

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Fine, from the factory. Also please tell that beetle at least has a 3.8 flat six in the back because I hate shit like that. It’s as bad as M badges on non BMWs.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:01

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No, not that I was going to anyways. VWs bore me.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Textured Soy Protein 09/21/2015 at 18:04

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But the trust issue remains. They’ve shown that they are willing and able to violate the law, so how do we know that they haven’t pulled any other shady business?

Agrajag > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:04

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Probably. Depends on how they handle themselves through this. I like that they were just like “Ja, we cheated.”

LongbowMkII > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:06

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depends on the discount. I’ll bite on a base GTI for 20k.

dogisbadob > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:08

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I don’t care for VW too much, anyway.

qbeezy > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:10

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Nah. Makes me want to sell my wife’s Passat right now. If they skirt this, they’ll skirt or have skirted somewhere else. I’ve completely wrote of GM as well. VW is in the same boat

Tareim - V8 powered > djmt1 09/21/2015 at 18:12

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Nah probably the golf r engine in the front

Textured Soy Protein > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/21/2015 at 18:13

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I generally assume that all large corporations are up to something or other that’s undesirable in some way. I’m cynical.

So I see VW cheating on an emissions test, and then you’ve got GM selling cars that shut themselves off which lead to people crashing and dieing, and I think, “well at least VW didn’t kill anyone.”

Spasoje > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:21

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Yep, definitely. This whole thing has no effect on my decision-making whatsoever, meaning I’d still grab a GTI or Golf wagon at the first possible opportunity.

whoarder is tellurium > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:30

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1. I hate the EPA. I hate other 3 letter agencies as well.

2. I’m good with VW and would buy their products. Heck, I own an Audi now. I guess I don’t understand why everybody is freaking out over them cheating the EPA.

whoarder is tellurium > Tripper 09/21/2015 at 18:35

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I’ve never known anyone shop for a vehicle with emission levels being one of the key purchasing requirements.

Although, I could see it being an issue for someone in Europe, as the EU taxes carbon output (LOL).

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Textured Soy Protein 09/21/2015 at 18:35

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Who knows. Maybe the cars they sent to the NHTSA/IIHS for crash testing were specially reinforced.

Dean Beyer > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:36

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Probably not but I’m curious to see the difference in performance numbers when its running legal.

Coty > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:40

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Yep. Gimmie a TDI Beetle.

marshknute > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:40

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Am I the only one who just doesn’t give a shit about diesel? It’s slow, doesn’t rev, sounds like crap, expensive to buy, expensive to fill up, difficult to find fuel stations, and no more efficient than hybrids.

The only VW worth buying is the GTI, and if I needed a luxurious all-rounder, I’d buy one in a heartbeat.

wiffleballtony > CB 09/21/2015 at 18:45

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I wouldn’t have purchased any of their wares before, now there isn’t a snowballs chance.

and 100 more > bob and john 09/21/2015 at 18:49

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Exactly. Let’s turn it around and look at the EPA - how effective are their tests? Do domestic diesels have to pass the same stringent standards? How is the US EPA testing different than the testing done in other nations which have a higher percentage of diesels on the road?

This smells like a witchhunt, and since there are so few diesel automakers here in the states (aside from those supplied to the truck and pickup market), squeezing out VW is a good way to make diesel disappear here in the states.

The question then becomes, who profits from this revelation?

Jagvar > CB 09/21/2015 at 19:09

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Having worked there, no, I would not. Of course I’ll keep my Phaeton, but I wouldn’t buy another car from that company based on my experiences there.

mazda616 > CB 09/21/2015 at 19:22

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I was never much of a VW fan beforehand. This whole test debacle doesn’t change that nor does it make it worse. I’m indifferent to VW. Their perceived reliability or lack thereof turns me off.

Textured Soy Protein > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/21/2015 at 19:25

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Saying that because VW lied about something, they must be lying about a bunch of other things, is overly simplistic reasoning.

VW made the standard engine programming in all of the offending diesels cheat on the emissions test. So any diesel car chosen for testing would pass the test. It’s not like they made one car a ringer to pass the test.

Why would VW do such a thing? Because they couldn’t come up with an engine map that both drove how they wanted, and met emissions standards. So instead, VW made an engine map that only meets emissions standards in certain limited situations, i.e. when being emissions tested, and made that the standard engine map in all of their cars.

So breaking that down, basically there was a compelling reason for VW to cheat, and an easy way for them to do it, so they did.

If you want to apply similar logic to safety equipment, you would need to answer this question: what compelling reason would VW have to engineer safety structures into their vehicles that don’t work most of the time, just to pass a safety test? Safety devices, unlike engine maps, are not just software. VW would have to engineer the entire structure of a vehicle to both A) pass crash tests and B) not protect its occupants in the real world. That sounds like an even harder task than designing a structurally sound vehicle in the first place.

Vi517, JDX Racing > CB 09/21/2015 at 19:29

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I personally wouldn’t buy a Volkswagen, but I am still going to recommend them. In my experience, Volkswagen makes the best economy cars, and this scandal won’t change my opinion of them.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Textured Soy Protein 09/21/2015 at 19:43

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My point is one of ethics. This wasn’t an “oops we discovered a defect but it’s too late to fix it so shush ” like the ignition debacle, this was somebody(ies) quite high up making a conscious decision to circumvent the law. VW intentionally lied to and misled government regulators. They can be honest, cooperate with investigators, and be proactive in fixing this all they want, but that original breach of trust remains, and makes you question what other business practices of theirs were conducted in the same manner.

webmonkees > CB 09/21/2015 at 20:16

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diesel 5 speed wagon at a substantial discount, perhaps. I most certainly would source a current ‘cheat’ ECU as a spare um eh

Textured Soy Protein > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/21/2015 at 20:17

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Your point is that VW decided to do something that is obviously against emissions regulations, and therefore VW acted unethically. Which is true.

You’re concerned with how these companies acted unethically. But because I already assume that all large corporations are doing unethical things all the time, the exact way in which they act unethically is less important to me than what they’re acting unethically about, and who and what those unethical actions affect.

So when I compare Car A that as a result of bureaucratic largesse and incompetence has an ignition switch that shuts off while driving and leads to an airbag-less crash that kills its driver, or Car B that as a result of a deliberate corporate decision puts out more pollution than it’s allowed to, I’m 100% of the time going to say the company that built Car A is worse than the company that built Car B.

That’s not excusing VW from their responsibility of building cars that actually do meet emissions requirements. But the severity of their infraction, to me, is more along the lines of GM’s skip-shift (which is technically legal but really the line between VW’s engine mapping and GM’s skip-shift is very thin) and less along the lines of GM’s ignition switches of fiery death.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > CB 09/21/2015 at 21:57

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yep. considering a Golf R actually

pip bip - choose Corrour > CB 09/21/2015 at 22:02

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i’d still buy diesel

but i’d steer clear of VW /Audi / Skoda / Seat in general.

i’m just not a fanboy of VW group products.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > CB 09/22/2015 at 00:12

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If it’s in this shade of red, I’ll buy anything! This isn’t the standard red is it? It looks much more metallic. Damn that’s pretty!!!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > CB 09/22/2015 at 00:49

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Well the only one I ever wanted to own was an old Caddy Rabbit so it doesn’t really affect me

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > CB 09/22/2015 at 09:36

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I’ve never found myself considering a VW anyway because of questionable reliability and plenty of horror stories from family friends.

Although I wouldn’t mind a Skoda Yeti with a 500bhp turbocharged race engine...

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > CB 09/23/2015 at 03:42

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most certainly.

Are MK7 VW’s affected by this? They use the Urea injection, so they did it ‘right’.

vicali > CB 09/25/2015 at 14:37

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Absolutely, although I’m going backwards.. my vw ownership history goes > 97 Jetta GT, 92 Jetta, 90 Jetta, 86 Westy.. Hoping to add a 66 Beetle to the list soon..