E30 Vs 944

"Howdy Harrell" (hseason91) 09/14/2015 at 20:54 • Filed to: None

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Looking for a fun project car, interested in doing an engine swap.

Would you rather....

E30 with S54 (E46 M3 Engine)

or 944 with Ls Swap.

bob and john > Howdy Harrell 09/14/2015 at 20:56

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944 with LS. to to piss off porsche guys

jkm7680 > Howdy Harrell 09/14/2015 at 20:58

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both

PS9 > bob and john 09/14/2015 at 21:01

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Then a C6 with a Porsche engine swap to piss off the Chevy guys.

Take the extra LS and put it in an RX7 for maximum trolling. I’d be fun for a bit before the angry mobs come to burn your house down and flay you alive.

bob and john > PS9 09/14/2015 at 21:02

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i’ve seen a picture with a C6 with a B18 in it...

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Howdy Harrell 09/14/2015 at 21:02

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E30.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > PS9 09/14/2015 at 21:04

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My dream is to someday take ‘69 Camaro SS (numbers matching for maximum troll), and swap in a quad rotor, then take it to a Super Chevy show just to piss EVERYONE off.

PS9 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 09/14/2015 at 21:06

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So you want to be the first person to get murdered at a car show, ehh? I like it. Man’s gotta have goals, even if they are strange.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > bob and john 09/14/2015 at 21:08

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That’s not gonna piss anyone off really. (o_o)

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > PS9 09/14/2015 at 21:09

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Yes, knowing several Chevy diehards, I expect to have to dodge bullets.

JGrabowMSt > Howdy Harrell 09/14/2015 at 21:10

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Personally I would do the E30/S54 swap. That said, I’m going to go out on a limb, because I’ve spent so much time at my friend’s BMW shop that he’s starting to 1) make me knowledgeable on this subject and 2) somewhat tempted to get one. Go for the S52 instead of the S54.

Honestly, it’s a maintenance thing. The S54 motor is more powerful and has a different sound which some people like more, but honestly, 30-40k miles in, you’re going to need to pull that stupid thing out of the car and do all your rod bearings and main bearings.

The S52 isn’t without it’s problems, but doing a water pump and oil pump before you drop the motor in could mean you’re good to go (unless something unexpected happens). You can also turbo that S52 and do basic upgrades to make more power than the S54 and still have more reliability. A very serious thing to take under consideration, I would think.

But whether you go S52 or S54 is almost insignificant, when you consider doing an LS swap into a 944 would mean you’re also in for a lot of drivetrain mods, and decisions between whether you drop a G50 trans axle in (and make it fit) or go with a trans up front and cut away at the firewall. If I had to motor swap a 944, I would actually take a 2.4L turbo from an SRT4 (or PT Cruiser GT) for simplicity and just use a Megasquirt system to keep it fairly simple. The E30 would just require a bunch of bolts and an ECU stuffed in somewhere and it would be a turn-key solution. Unless you’re going for a magazine build, it’s what I would look for. The big complicated swaps often don’t look very good because the shoe-string budget and “need it last week” time schedule causes things to be rushed. Depending on whether you want to be able to easily finish and then drive/enjoy the car or tinker for a long long time. I’m all for LS swaps, but in this specific case, I’d love to see the finished car and you enjoying it. There are plenty of both swaps out there, but the E30 would be more reliable and easier to work on, at least in my opinion.

MM54 > Howdy Harrell 09/14/2015 at 21:10

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I feel like there’s more aftermarket for the e30, but I’ve driven a 944 and haven’t had any seat time in an e30 so I’d be tempted to go towards the porsche anyways.

Can you put the s54 in the 944?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Howdy Harrell 09/14/2015 at 21:11

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944, but I’m biased. :p

wbizarre - OEM fetishist > bob and john 09/14/2015 at 21:17

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Swallowing my bias here, go 944!

petebmwm > jkm7680 09/14/2015 at 21:26

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petebmwm > petebmwm 09/14/2015 at 21:32

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great, now i want tacos.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > Howdy Harrell 09/14/2015 at 21:33

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E30 with S54 swap. I honestly like the 944 better, but the S54 swap just seems “right” in a way that the LS swap doesn't.

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > JGrabowMSt 09/14/2015 at 21:45

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The early S54’s had the rod bearing issue 01-03. The later motors and a large portion of early motors (because of the recall) had the upgraded bearings. Most guys replace those around 150-200k miles. Other than that on the S54 the only other problems are the VANOS issues and the CPV’s oring doesn't have a high enough temperature rating and fails prematurely.

Master Cylinder > JGrabowMSt 09/14/2015 at 22:06

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The G50 as in the 911 transaxle? I believe that would give you 1 forward gear and 5 reverse gears if you managed to install it in a 944. The 951 (944 Turbo) transaxle is capable of handling LS power. No need to muck about with swapping non-standard transaxles.

That said, an LS swap into a 944 brings about other headaches. The engine bay can fit a V8 but it wasn’t designed for it, so the brakes need to be reworked since you have to ditch the vacuum brake booster, and even though the 951 transaxle can handle the power, the gearing isn’t ideal for a big V8 and there’s not a whole lot you can do about it, aside from massively increasing the cost and complexity of the swap with a different transmission or just massively increasing the cost with custom-cut gears.

I assume issues like that can be avoided in the BMW-to-BMW swap that would make it overall more straightforward and factory-like, so that’s what I’d vote for too.

I don’t really think the 944 needs a swap, to be honest. The Turbo motors can reach into the 300s fairly easily and cheaply, and I’ve read about some all-out builds that push the Porsche motor up into the 600-700hp range. An engine like that costs a metric ton of dollars, I’m sure, but mid-300hp with good reliability can be had for about the same cost as a quality LS swap, if you start with a solid runner. Especially considering you’ll need/want most of the Turbo drivetrain, suspension, and brakes to back up LS power, so even if you don’t start with a Turbo to begin with, you’ll need to pay to acquire all that stuff.

JGrabowMSt > Master Cylinder 09/14/2015 at 22:22

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G50 mates to LS motors with just an adapter plate. Factory Five specs the GTM to use an LS+G50, so yeah, would work just fine, and can handle the power with respectable gearing.

Master Cylinder > JGrabowMSt 09/14/2015 at 22:24

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Yeah, but isn’t the G50 for a rear-engine setup? Meaning it’s normally in front of the engine, so flipping it for a front or mid-engined setup would drive the wheels in the wrong direction?

JGrabowMSt > Master Cylinder 09/14/2015 at 22:36

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No, the motor is moved backwards, not turned around. On the GTM specifically, they turn the intake around so the air filter is towards the back, but the motor is physically in front of the trans, so for this, it would be very similar to the GTM in the 944, only difference being the use of a torque tube.

Honestly though, if I were to V8 swap a 944, I would keep it in the family and yank something from either the Macan or Cayenne and stuff in the G50 out back. Not saying it would be easier that way, just keeping it in the family.

Master Cylinder > JGrabowMSt 09/14/2015 at 23:31

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I know the GTM is a mid engine design, but the 911 that the G50 comes out of (unless there’s another source of front- or mid-engine G59s) is rear engined, like so:

The bellhousing faces the rear, so to use it with an engine in the front or middle of the car requires turning it around, which would spin the wheels the wrong way. However, I just did some reading on the topic and apparently the G50 will work OK upside down (which would provide for the correct rotation of the wheels), too, so that must be how it’s used in the GTM, I guess.