Question of the Night: What's the worst gap in comparative offerings in the US?

"boxrocket" (boxrocket) 09/13/2015 at 01:10 • Filed to: question of the night, qotn

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Apparently I fell asleep last night without posting an QOTN. Sorry about that, folks; I got off work late and wound up going almost straight to bed after getting home.

One thing that’s long been a fascination of mine is the difference in offerings between the U.S. Domestic Market (USDM) and other markets where a lot of the same worldwide automakers compete, like Europe, Australia, and Southeastern Asia. Here in the U.S., we looooooove our big, brawny pickups, but in Europe a lot of the same work done by pickups here is done by vans, so there’s a wide array of vans to choose from in all sorts of shapes and sizes. In Australia, they appreciate RWD, so there’s still a holdout for mainline brands making their flagship sedan RWD (Ford and Holden - GM’s Australia-based brand - most notably), whereas in the U.S. it’s mostly FWD (but with an arguable resurgence thanks to the Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 twins, which are essentially old Mercedes sedans, leading to the chevy ss, as well as rumors of a RWD Mustang-platform-based fullsize vehicle to replace the Taurus and MKS, though the Continental Concept being AWD might squash that rumor). In Asia and Australia they also appreciate trucks, but on a slightly smaller scale. The list goes on and on, but there are differences for a reason, but at the same time, I can’t help but think that having semi-universal offerings across the globe wouldn’t be such a bad thing, if international and federal laws would allow for it.

So the QOTN tonight is, what do you think is the biggest gap in our North American vehicular lineup?

For me, it’s RWD body-on-frame smaller pickups and SUVs based off them, like the Ranger and Everest, or the Tacoma and 4Runner. The offerings we have here are fairly dated (though gm and Toyota would have us believe otherwise), or nonexistent in Ford (and VAG, FCA, and Hyundai/Kia’s case, for now?). But they’re trucks, which outsell everything else here for now, and they’re honestly capable ones at that.

I want these to be available here. Badge the Ranger as an F-100 to have it help the F-Series’ sales numbers, and the Everest is a logical competitor to the 4Runner, but not as large and potentially unwieldy as an Expedition. While we’re at it, give us the Territory and Falcon too.

TheHondaBro > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 01:16

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Diesel sedans.

They burn far cleaner than gasoline, they’re far more efficient, and as of right now, diesel fuel is a lot cheaper than what it used to be. But because one diesel sedan happened to be a total shitbox, we’re scared to death of the things.

not for canada - australian in disguise > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 01:31

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RWD midsize sedans. We need something Camry/Accord/Fusion/Sonata sized, but RWD. I think Dodge would be the one to do this, to replace the Avenger. Closest thing I can think of would be the 3-Series/C-Class.

TheHondaBro > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/13/2015 at 01:36

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We have the Genesis sedan and the current offerings from the luxury crowd.

Goggles Pizzano > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/13/2015 at 01:41

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Funny you mention Dodge...Although 2-door, word is new ‘Cuda may help...

Word of 4-door variant and/or name?

El Rivinado > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 01:44

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Large RWD Luxury cars.

What used to be one of the things we excelled at, has basically disappeared. Most of the RWD full-size luxury cars (Rolls Royce, S-Class, Bentley) are priced too expensive to really be considered viable, and the current FWD “large” cars we offer up (XTS and MKS) are mere shells of what they used to represent.

The CT6 and new Continental are steps in the right direction, but considering they only have V6s at most, means we’ve got some ways to go. They don’t have to be as massive as the Rolls or S-Class, but they got to at least be big, comfortable, and at the very least, somewhat affordable compared to the foreign competition.

BTW, I know the Chrysler 300 fits those descriptions, but it also doesn't have the cachet and image I'm talking about. I think most people would look at you funny if they told you that the 300 was classified as a luxury car.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Goggles Pizzano 09/13/2015 at 01:47

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Aspen has been thrown around a bit, Monaco would work as well.

not for canada - australian in disguise > TheHondaBro 09/13/2015 at 01:48

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They’re all to pricey though, what I want is something that’s in both the size and price range of the Camry/Accord/Fusion etc

TheHondaBro > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/13/2015 at 01:50

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That’s the problem. RWD is pricey, especially considering FWD is more popular with the majority of buyers. A cheap RWD sedan, with that driveshaft splitting the cabin and that rear axle compromising trunk space, just isn’t in the cards.

duurtlang > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 06:21

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As a European looking at the US market, I’d argue: wagons. If you want something practical in the US you’re forced into something tall, which is a shame.

I know, I know, it’s a rather tired thing to say here.

Also: French cars. It’s odd that such a high volume car manufacturing country (PSA+Renault=6 million cars/year) is completely absent from the US market, save for Bugatti. Especially because they offer very competent cars in the segments they operate it.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > TheHondaBro 09/13/2015 at 08:57

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I think it’s less GM’s fault now, and more of the EPA’s for us not having the vast availability of diesels.

cnessel27 > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 09:16

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Every ones talking about sedans. 2015 Ford Falcon

:edit thumb slipped hit pub.

Rwd available with xr8 (v8) trim or xr6 (turboI6) trim packages. I know it’s just a Taurus but it’s the way the Taurus should have been, I mean they are our (ford) only option for sedan based police vehicles and how much cooler would they be v8 rwd.

BahamaTodd > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 09:54

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As far as being dated: The new Tacoma - maybe somewhat. The new Colorado - far from dated. That is new from the frame up.

If you want to see dated, go drive any of those overseas trucks or vans and it will feel like you went back 5-10 years. That is the reason GM had to completely redo the Colorado to make it suitable for the US market.

BahamaTodd > Goggles Pizzano 09/13/2015 at 09:58

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The Dodge Charger is supposed to go on the platform used for the Alpha Giulia.

BahamaTodd > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/13/2015 at 10:06

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The 3 series is still technically compact. Those volume brand midsizes are almost a foot longer. The only midsize RWD we have are the luxury brands CTS, 5 series, E class, etc. The Chevy SS, although considered fullsize, at 195” is really only 2-3” longer than those midsizes. I usually associate fullsize at over 200” in length.

Matthew Phillips > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 11:47

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Taurus-X

Matthew Phillips > cnessel27 09/13/2015 at 11:48

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This... Is more of a crown Victoria than a Taurus....

boxrocket > BahamaTodd 09/13/2015 at 18:01

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AFAIK the 2015+ US models are essentially the same as the international 2012+ models, but updated on the mid-cycle refresh with gm’s ongoing (and much-needed) interior improvements. They're made near where I live (Wentzville is just outside Saint Louis county). They're definitely the newest in the segment, even with the mildly refreshed Tacoma, but that's not saying much

boxrocket > duurtlang 09/13/2015 at 18:05

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I agree on wagons, but I see BOF trucks and SUVs built on home turf to avoid the chicken tax as more likely, as we know how much automakers rely on the native profit margins in the full-size truck/SUV segments.

BahamaTodd > boxrocket 09/13/2015 at 20:47

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The only parts shared with the international models are the roof and door panels. Everything else was changed. Our truck is longer with a fully boxed frame based on the Silverado’s, yet its also about 500 lbs lighter. I’m sure many structural changes to keep the weight down yet meet US crash standards. Disc brakes all around (global has rear drums). Completely new interior. US market gas engines and even the diesel got a new turbo and other changes for the US market.