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"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
09/04/2015 at 11:30 • Filed to: Idiotlopnik, Audilopnik, track car

So I own a silver 2000 B5 S4 (Not the one pictured) with the 2.7T V6 made of explodium (see timing belt job on an Allroad). I’m using this is a track car, but now I’m having second thoughts. I already bought OZ Ultraleggeras in 17x7, but now I have the list of everything else that needs doing to that car.

The total cost for maintenance and reliability upgrades, fixing the H&R road suspension with KW V3s, plus a rollbar, 2 race seats and 2 harnesses? $8000.

And that’s before installation. $8000 in parts.

So I have a few options:

Pay the money, and start a project

Pay more money, and have someone else install all the parts

Try to do things as money allows, and still not have everything decent all the time

Do the major things (replace the grille I broke while breaking into my own engine compartment due to the secondary latch sticking, timing belt, and rear subframe bushings that are squeaking), and sell it for a decent price, and get a different track car.

Sell it for whatever I can get now, and look for something else to track.

So Oppo, wat do?

DISCUSSION (22)

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 11:33

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 11:35

I’m not sure that track prepping a car with cage, suspension, seats, etc is going to be dramatically cheaper for other cars, so it’s really about what you want. The question then becomes do you want the risk of having a 2.7T explode every time you get on track? I’d say sell it and find something hardier, but for some reason people seem to like these things.

Dunnik > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 11:48

Yea, I’d say #5.

As SidewaysOnDirt says, the costs of making a car track-worthy are about the same regardless of what platform you choose to go with, so go with something more durable. Obvious point is obvious, but tracking a car subjects it to enormous stress: more stress than a decade-old VAG product can handle.

What you need is something small, light and durable. Answer?

Kinja'd!!!

RallyWrench > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 12:04

S4s are so good when they’re right, but they are an expensive mistress as a track car. I’d sell it and get something else.

Bytemite > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 12:07

I would start with a lightweight, RWD platform to pour your money into.

Adding $8,000 to an extremely nose-heavy, AWD luxury sedan just to take it out of its element won’t see as much of a return on your 8k investment than if you were to have started right from the ground up.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 12:15

If it’s going to cost you $8000 just to get a cage, seats, and some coilovers than you’re already heading down the wrong path. It seems like you’re jumping into some really advanced hardware when you don’t even know the limits of what’s there in regards to on a track. Start small at first, build big later. Even professional race cars are built with what they know first before they start trying to upgrade components and heading down the dangerous path of making it worse.

If you haven’t already, look at Randy Pobst’s video of him taking the GTR up Pike’s Peak. They had more trouble tuning out the suspension,of the car than anything else. At one point a STOCK GTR was running better than the 600hp monster they had built.... Wise knowledge to be had there.

Chris Li > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 12:18

8k is too much, sell your current car and get something else that wont blow up.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Dunnik
09/04/2015 at 13:31

I’m more partial to fixed roof cars, like a Nissan 240SX or an E36 BMW.

It’s not like either has a distinct lack of aftermarket parts...

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Bytemite
09/04/2015 at 13:32

That’s my line of thinking. I have some people pushing me towards a 350Z, and others are going towards 240SX and some towards E36 BMWs.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
09/04/2015 at 13:37

The coilovers that are already on the car are crap, so it’s more a “Since it needs replacing and would be more expensive to revert it to stock, may as well get something that could be made to work decently”

I’ve been driving this S4 for about a year or so, and it’s done 7 track weekends so far, and I’ve driven my Z4 around before that (and before I decided I’d rather not stuff that into a tire barrier). $2000 for this model of S4 was a bit on the low side, but while I *could* do all the work myself, I’d only want to if I really really love the car.

And that’s what hurts: I don’t really really love it. I really really *like* it, but it’s still a 3700lb 4 door sedan that needs a lot of work from the neglect it suffered under previous owners.

I could find an E36 or a 240SX or even an RX-8 for the kind of money I would need to get this one fixed right.

(Also, I don’t really want to do the timing belt on that, even though I can move the lock carrier into service position on my own)

EDIT: Also, the $8000 includes the timing belt service, redoing the subframe bushings, new coilovers (since they are likely closing in on 100K miles of service), two Recaro seats, two 6 point harnesses, and a race rollbar with harness bar.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
09/04/2015 at 13:39

It’s lasted through 7 weekends so far, but since I do not know the age of the timing belt, I am living on borrowed time.

And I do *not* want to deal with the turbos on that car. Ugh.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 13:44

Have you thought about living dangerously and just going straight to an AW11? ;)

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
09/04/2015 at 13:45

And a B5 S4 *isn’t* living dangerously?

#YesIDidConsiderAnMR2

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 13:46

You’re more likely to live in the S4, and the S4 will understeer into the wall instead of snap then fling you the other way backwards.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
09/04/2015 at 13:50

Carolina Motorsports Park Turn 1 would like to have a word with you on that.

I caused oversteer, went through the corner on the nose, and which I caught at the T1 exit and snapped the other direction through T2.

It stayed on the pavement, and was roughly in the correct direction...

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 13:54

Now imagine it in a car that’s actively trying to kill you if you don’t keep your foot buried in the gas and you have a good idea of what it would be like in an MR2.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 13:56

Yeah, it kind of seems like you know what you need to do but don’t really want to do it. It sucks trying to get rid of a project car that’s infamously unreliable to start out with, but if you’re feeling the pain before you even start, it’s just going to get worse.

Bytemite > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 14:04

Sell the Audi to some schmuck who wants the badge and a comfy executive car.

240SX you will never find without a welded diff. 350Z would be too expensive to buy and is too fat anyway. E36 is good, E30s too. You are just basically looking for any chassis that drives the right wheels and has the least amount of blubber as possible. This is why any car that fits this description will get raced and molested and “drift taxed” to hell in the used market.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
09/04/2015 at 14:26

It started out as “Track car, so I don’t stuff my BMW into a tire barrier”

Now it’s more of “Gee, I have to fix the most notorious of VAG products from a time when VAG products were notoriously horrid to work on”

And that actually hurts me a little bit.

I’m thinking I’ll end up with some 90s BMW (either E36 or E46. Preferably E36, but I wouldn’t say no to an E46)

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/04/2015 at 14:32

Yeah, I know the feels. I bought my MR2 for pretty much the same reason. I don’t want to stuff my daily into a wall, so bought it for a grand figuring it would be fun to thrash about and maybe bring to LeMons until it dies. A year and a half and thousands of dollars later, I don’t think there’s a single component between the chassis and the ground that hasn’t been replaced and upgraded, and that’s on a simple old car. I haven’t really had any regrets yet as the goal of the car changed as I fell in love with it, but it was definitely way more expensive and more work than I was expecting.

jkm7680 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/03/2015 at 22:24

Fix everything, but on the low. You could easily do that all using used parts for under $4,000.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680
10/03/2015 at 22:34

If I don’t do the track upgrades, I can do it for about $1000 in parts. Already priced it out, and I would just have to convince myself to do it.

Then it should sell easily.