That's It, I'm Pissed at the Automotive Industry Now

"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
08/08/2015 at 10:51 • Filed to: Modification, MPG

I feel foolish. I’m confused, rocked even. Though I’ve tuned a few cars, I’ve since become a big proponent of keeping cars bone stock. Something ignorant inside of me decided over a decade ago that I was done ruining cars and would trust that the OEM was going to, for the most part, install the most efficient durable part for the job, and they’d be crazy not to. My co-worker bought me a TRD !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for my Tundra this week just to prove to me how ignorant I was being.

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I’m so shattered as person after having put about 200 miles on my truck with the new intake. MPG is legitimately 1.5-2 miles to the gallon better, power (especially throttle response) is slightly but appreciably improved, and even if it wasn’t doing those things, it sounds SICK. To add to the depths of my ignorance, I always thought people were lying about MPG gains from exhaust and intakes... WHY!?!?

A couple of MPG improvement doesn’t matter in a normal sized car, but when you think about how many !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! a truck gets compared to say a Honda Accord, a 2 MPG improvement is pretty significant. Especially in a vehicle that does 13/18 from the factory.

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I’m almost upset to realize that most of the bigillions of trucks I see on the road are could be getting 4-5 MPG better if the driver could tolerate a little more noise from their intake and exhaust when they hit the gas. It’s hard to understand why you’d drive something with a massive V8 and not want to hear it, but there’s no accounting for taste, I suppose.

I get that some people need to have a quiet car, and it’d really bug some people, but why isn’t it at least an option from the factory? Even on base model cars, why the heck wouldn’t they offer a slightly louder version of the car that gets better mileage. The intake doesn’t need to be fancier or look better, but it can at least let the car breath and not offer up restriction just to kill sound. The fact that this filter is reusable makes it just that much less of a “fuck you” to the environment.

What am I missing here? Is there some sort of regulation that demands this jackassery? Is this really people just driving automakers to make poor decisions, or is this the product of the number crunchers just not caring enough to accommodate two different intake choices on a vehicle?

DISCUSSION (47)

jariten1781 > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 10:57

You’d have to certify the engine for every configuration. That’s $$$.

Money Hustard > jariten1781
08/08/2015 at 10:59

Elaborate on what you mean by certify?

lone_liberal > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:00

First, I’d say that a TRD part is OEM. It’s designed and built by Toyota and not some random aftermarket company. It’s not an option because manufacturers try to keep variations to a minimum on the assembly line and because most people don’t think intake noise is particularly pleasing. Plus, by keeping it as an add-on Toyota gets to charge retail prices for it.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:00

Because people are obsessed with lowering NVH that they are willing to make sacrifices to reach their goals.

jariten1781 > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:01

EPA, Euro cycle, whatever Japan runs. Plus whatever additional coding needed for the fuel tables, all the life out testing, etc. Not cheap.

TheOnelectronic > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:06

CAI’s have several drawbacks from the perspective of a mass-market vehicle. They’re more susceptible to water ingestion, and most aren’t actually taking in cold air, so they get heat soaked easily. There have been other issues mentioned with intake air harmonics and tube length and all of that but I’ll leave it to someone more knowledgeable than I to explain.

Money Hustard > jariten1781
08/08/2015 at 11:06

The Tundra just as an example is a US-only vehicle. One of the biggest criticisms of it is its inefficiency. Seems like it’s be worth it to silence the critics and lessen the tundra’s impact on CAFE standards.

Money Hustard > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
08/08/2015 at 11:10

But there has to be a good bit of folk intent on increasing it, especially in the truck market.

dogisbadob > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:10

Well, TRD is still kind of OEM, being supported and warrantied by Toyota. That’s what the T in TRD stands for :)

Money Hustard > lone_liberal
08/08/2015 at 11:11

Yeah I get you on the TRD thing, other part makers can yield the same results.

Money Hustard > dogisbadob
08/08/2015 at 11:13

Yes yes, but it's not like their parts are magically different, I'd get similar results from several other part makers.

jariten1781 > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:13

Then you’ll get complaints that it’s unrefined when NVH skyrockets. NVH and high hip points are two of the biggest things for focus groups.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:16

There are owners who want to increase it, but most owners just want a smooth and quiet ride.

Money Hustard > jariten1781
08/08/2015 at 11:18

Kinja'd!!!

Though

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:21

Because they can make more profit by selling them at the parts counter. Just about every OEM sells performance parts at the dealers.

TheOnelectronic > jariten1781
08/08/2015 at 11:22

What are hip points?

Sneaky Pete > TheOnelectronic
08/08/2015 at 11:26

Big one is filter maintenance. Most people (outside of us oppos) would much rather remove an old paper element filter, throw it in the trash, and put a new one in. It’s much more work to remove a filter, clean it, and if it’s not one of k&n’s nice new oil less filters, reoil the thing.

lone_liberal > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:33

They can if they take the time to engineer it correctly which a lot of aftermarket companies don’t. A lot of CAI kits that are sold are cheap crap that hurt performance by sucking in hot underhood air and/or water. Also, truth be told, a CAI usually provides a minimal increase in performance unless other modifications are also made that takes advantage of the extra airflow that a properly designed CAI can provide.

Funktheduck > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:36

EPA. If they offered both they'd have to run emissions testing on both I would imagine. Then there's California.

Urambo Tauro > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:42

I also have developed a great deal of confidence in OEM parts. The aftermarket is more hit-and-miss.

When you are ready to replace ball-joints, for example, the parts store is likely to offer replacement parts with a “1yr warranty” and parts with a “3-5yr warranty”. But if the vehicle’s original ones lasted 90,000 miles, it’s probably because the manufacturer needed to uphold a 75,000 mile warranty without having customers cash in on that promise. In many cases, OEM parts are truly superior.

While aftermarket performance parts can increase a car’s capability, they sometimes conflict with other parts, or compromise fitment or durability. This is not always the case, though. Some aftermarket parts are very well engineered and are priced accordingly.

Some Ford Racing Performance Parts items are actually re-branded aftermarket items. For example, the FRPP rear end girdle is actually made by TA Performance, and gets stamped with a Ford Racing logo. You can buy either one, but it’s the same part. And it’s a good quality one, too. The powers-that-be at Ford didn’t just lazily re-brand a random part for re-sale. It’s a part that’s worth endorsing.

jariten1781 > TheOnelectronic
08/08/2015 at 11:46

How ‘high’ you sit in the car. High hip points are a huge selling point to non enthusiasts. It’s why the Fiat 500, Fit (and most others) feel like your seat was installed a foot higher than it should have been if you’re used to sporty or pre 2000s cars. Thank the focus groups.

jariten1781 > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:47

I’m not disagreeing with the sentiment, just the practicality. Aftermarket tales care of it though so no biggie.

Money Hustard > Urambo Tauro
08/08/2015 at 11:49

My eyes are opening to a bizarre world.

Kevin Barrett > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:51

There’s also the cost of the part and the added complexity of manufacture. Modern intake systems on cars are as cheap as they can be, tuned to deliver a particular torque curve for testing purposes, and packaged to make installation an uncomplicated affair for the assembly line.

TwoToneLoser > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:53

This only works with Direct injection motors. Not everybody has DI. Your truck might.

Otherwise, every car I have ever had that I have allowed to breathe more easily has had worse gas mileage. It is a known thing that in order to get better fuel mileage, hotter intake temperatures and a more strangled intake is the way to go. Check out some of the hypermiler forums to see what I am talking about.

Yes-performance suffers, but on the whole less gas is used. My cars did sound cooler, I’ll give you that.

Money Hustard > jariten1781
08/08/2015 at 11:54

I bet they could plan for it regionally. 80% of truck buyers in the southeast are going to want the louder more efficient engine setup.

Money Hustard > TwoToneLoser
08/08/2015 at 11:56

The tundra does not have DI, but the performance gains are real. The stock tundra has a CAI it's just shitty.

Opposite Locksmith > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 11:58

Nah dude they're magical. I'm glad you like it! I need to drive an automatic built after 94 because I'm in disbelief when someone says they're feeling better throttle response after such and such mod in an AT vehicle

HammerheadFistpunch > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 12:02

to sell it in all 50 it needs a carb certificate, otherwise it could fall you on inspection

Money Hustard > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2015 at 12:05

I guess that’s the advantage of TRD parts, they make getting a sticker super easy.

But I live in Florida so inspections aren’t a thing.

Naijaflavor, I Love Doritos > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 12:08

That’s a good looking engine bay.

jariten1781 > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 12:15

Then the costs of certifying would have to either be amortized across the whole line which would make you less competitive in the market or it would be a pay option which is essentially what OEM plus (TRD, Ford Performance, MazdaSpeed, etc) parts are now anyway.

HammerheadFistpunch > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 12:52

Yeah TRD and most of the brand name stuff already comes with a carb sticker. however I think that your mileage gaines probably are going to go down again once your computer readjust to the new air flow Reading. I think you’re probably running just a little bit of lean cycle right now but let’s hope not

Money Hustard > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2015 at 12:55

I don’t know what to believe on that front. I’ve been told that when I disconnected the battery for the install, that reset it. And then, no no no, modern ecu’s are aware of these factors immediately, and then there’s your camp. It’s entirely possible what you say is correct, though, it doesn’t make sense that I get more power, better sound, AND better MPG, it really doesn’t to me.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Urambo Tauro
08/08/2015 at 13:06

With some parts it’s ok to trust a chinese copy, others you need to replace with OEM.

AthomSfere > TheOnelectronic
08/08/2015 at 13:44

On water though: It’s easy to engineer a valve to dump excess moisture, especially from the get-go and not as an aftermarket. Same goes for “Not actually getting cold air”. If it was a consideration from the factory it would be easy to have real CAI...

It's a "Porch-uh" > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 13:45

There are a lot of constraints you’re not seeing that automotive engineers (and those that employ them) have to deal with. While it is in their best interest to get better efficiency (gov. regulations, marketing/sales advantage, etc), they have to weigh it against the drawbacks. Several others have mentioned a few, but cost/benefit is a biggie, and the best performance in ALL environments (very hot, very cold, very wet, all of the above, etc). There are also a bunch of other constraints that you and I haven’t even considered. They have to build a vehicle that works for a very large swath of people and places. The stock intake needs to balance all those needs (and be cheap). No reason to be pissed at the manufacturers, they’re not just making a car for you.

Money Hustard > It's a "Porch-uh"
08/08/2015 at 14:20

I can see what you are saying in some cases, maybe even most, but when you’ve got a truck that’s only getting 13/18, already has a CAI, when all you need to do is make the box and filter a wee bigger, it’s just laziness.

You’d think at least performance oriented cars would come with some options here. They offer different exhausts, why not intakes?

What strikes me most is that it’s just never an option you see available from the factory, even on cars that are all about making noise and power.

Money Hustard > AthomSfere
08/08/2015 at 14:31

That it correct, the actually Tundra comes with a CAI stock, the TRD version just sucks in a lot more air and doesn’t mess with it just to make it quieter along the way.

CommonSenseIsn't > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 17:17

Heh... it’s the bean-counters fault. Seriously.

Many many years ago (holy crap, 25 years! :O ) I special-ordered a Mustang LX 5.0 from the factory while stationed overseas. Loved that car...

About a month after buying it, a German enthusiast asked me if I’d removed the silencer from the air intake. This being before the internet existed, I’d never heard of it...

Five minutes of work to take the restriction cone off the front of the air intake yielded noticeable throttle response gains, as well as better MPG, with a slightly increased (though still muted) roar from the intake. Ford put it there for *comfort*. Seriously - in a *Mustang*. Until I messed with that car further, I regularly got 27 MPG on the freeway in that car, and twice saw over 30.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sneaky Pete
08/08/2015 at 17:31

I hate my K&N oiled filter with a passion. Within 500 miles it’s black, and no, it isn’t over oiled.

Money Hustard > CommonSenseIsn't
08/08/2015 at 17:52

Yeah, I’ve been looking into it, I’m noticing all these little boxes on intakes and turbos that don’t do anything other than quiet things down, but that has to come at a cost to efficiency and power.

If I was this wrong about this, what else have I been wrong about....

AdverseMartyr > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 18:06

It being TRD brings back up the point of why don’t they just make it standard for the truck if it is better. If it is a Toyota part for your truck then it has gone through all the testing and certifying so why not make it the standard. And make the quieter one the option for people who want that.

It’s probably the economy of scale though. I’m sure the same basic engine is used in other vehicles and so they use the same basic air intake on them to lower production cost.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 19:33

In diesel land (specifically GM diesel land), the case in point for this is the LLY Duramax. The stock mouthpiece on the turbo has a few features in the Silverado/Sierra that make turbo breathing a bit restricted, which has the capability of elevating EGTs.

The same engine in the Kodiak/TopKick has a much better piece for breathing, and so did the LBZ Duramax. A common thing now is to see someone remove the LLY mouthpiece, and replace it with a Kodiak or LBZ mouthpiece.

So sometimes the OEM makes a certain choice (power vs emissions/cost etc) and it’s not in the favor of performance.

It's a "Porch-uh" > Money Hustard
08/08/2015 at 23:06

You’re still missing the point. Go talk to an engineer about the constraints they are under to make an entire vehicle. They are far from lazy. Don’t judge until you have all the facts.

Money Hustard > It's a "Porch-uh"
08/09/2015 at 09:59

I don’t think it’s the engineers. Of course I don’t have insight into what that’s like, but Toyota engineers already worked to make this TRD part. The work was already done. This is a failure in the marketing and production.

A lot of brands are doing the same exact thing.

Wurrwulf > TwoToneLoser
08/09/2015 at 14:55

My old 2006 xB got between 2-3 more mpg by adding a short ram intake. It did not have DI.