Why You Should Reconsider Your Stance on Dealerships 

"RealPontiacFakePontiac" (realpontiacfakepontiac) 07/20/2015 at 12:55 • Filed to: carbuying, dealerships, stealerships

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Stars Mislead Us: 1/5 or Hundreds on Kinja

I am starting to feel as though I work at Dealership Dreamland.

I am starting to feel as though anecdotal experiences are irrefutable fact, that these harrowing first hand accounts of shady sales practices are Kinja Star Juggernauts. Is it that we as denizens of the Internet latch onto anything negative, anything that may reaffirm our bias, a bias that may have been first created upon reading a similarly negative comment elsewhere online? Or have we all been screwed over before? And if we have all feel as though we have been screwed over, do we know the full story before we tell it to the world?

I read a lot of bad things about dealerships. A lot of that comes from Jalopnik, CarBuying and Kinja comments. I realize that a lot of people have had negative experiences at dealerships and that some of their practices, even if completely transparent and legal, sort of do nothing positive for the customer. There are a lot of changes that dealerships need to make, as Tom, myself and many others have touched on in past posts. I get all of that.

What I do not understand is the absoluteness that people often speak with when discussing dealerships, or as they frequently refer to them as, “stealerships”. The world is not black and white and one negative experience is not representative of every other possible experience. I feel like I’m some guy on the Mazda forums screaming about my heavily boosted RX-7 having 200,000 miles on the factory apex seals. Yes, it is almost completely unheard of, but it is possible. Probably. Just give me a chance and let me show you all 38 of my rigorous maintenance scheduling guides.

I have never worked at any other dealership. I don’t know the full spectrum of their terror outside of internet comments and old people who also claim their vehicles did 11 second quarter mile runs on bias-ply tires from the 60’s. People go on the internet and lie. Old people are nostalgic. Who is to be trusted? Everyone needs to take a sample of the good and bad stories, and then average that out. The truth is likely somewhere in between unless you’re buying a used RX-7 and then I guarantee that if you follow my instructions, it will last forever.

Since I have been with my company, I have never seen an upset customer. We have never sold a vehicle with issues that were not immediately disclosed. I have never seen anyone pressured into anything. We are transparent in all of our practices. We aren’t perfect. Even if a customer pays for the entire price of a vehicle with a check, getting them “in and out” is still not nearly as quick as just building your own car. But we try, we do what we can and we are all here to make money, but also to sleep well at night.

The worst thing that I have seen is when a customer purchased a used Dodge Ram from us. During the test drive the AC worked fine, so the customer laid the money down and left. He wasn’t able to take the vehicle home that day, so he came back several days later with his family, including two very fresh babies. The salesperson that the customer had been working with pulled the vehicle up front in the morning before the customer arrived and upon doing so, noticed that the AC had completely stopped working. The salesperson did not call the customer, but he pulled it into our service center and told a mechanic what was going on. The mechanic looked over everything, pumped more Freon into the lines and made sure that all of it worked. It seemed that a valve was loose, so the mechanic also fixed that as best as he could. The issue here is that we had no idea if the AC on the Dodge was even going to be able to be repaired. We didn’t know what the issue was. For all we knew, the AC would not have been able to be repaired at all and the customer would have had to just deal with it, essentially.

We lucked out. If we were not able to fix it, the customer would have been informed and he likely would have still taken the vehicle, and then went online to tell the world that we screwed him over on his vehicle. But there is more truth to what he would have said, which I imagine would have been something along the lines of: “the dealership put just enough Freon in the vehicle to make the test drive look good, then when I came to pick the car up the AC was broken again! Arrghghgh shady sales practices not informing customers of issues aarhghggo!” When in reality, we at first had no idea why the AC suddenly stopped working. It worked during our inspection when purchasing the vehicle. It worked on numerous test drives. Then it sort of just stopped. We had to pay our mechanic to figure it out, we had to pay for the supplies to fix the issue and we did this when the car was already paid for . There was no way that we would get any extra money out of the customer.

A large part of my issue with how people discuss dealerships seemingly has to do with how people discuss everything on the Internet. I find myself very frequently being the only person in between opinions, admitting that yes, some things are bad but also, some things are good! Regulations on vehicle efficiency might take away our riotous 7L V8’s that consume gas like CarMax consumes money to pay for Doug’s Range Rover, but these regulations also brought us amazing technology, power, efficiency and the Aston Martin Cygnet. There are few things that are entirely good or bad. Even the Miata rests somewhere in between and is in fact, not the answer to everything. The answer to everything I think, is variables.

Every dealership story that you read online is not 100% true. There are variables within each story, likely within each detail, that you and the complaining customer will never be aware of. Except for the one that I told you, that story is utterly true. No, really, it is.

When I purchase something online, I read a selection of the worst reviews, the best and some from in the middle. I find that many of the worst reviews have no idea how the product works and thus, are angry. These are often people who purchased a USB phone charger for their iPhone. People apparently do not do this when listening to and telling stories about dealerships. They are all bad, every one of them.

Except that they aren’t. Buying a vehicle can be a complicated experience filled with a lot of big words like equity, APR, credit rating and money down. These are words with definitions as complicated as the procedure of buying an iPhone charger, but not as complicated as writing a scathing review online. The problem then, comes from many people not fully understanding dealerships work and what these and other words use.

And that is one of the biggest, most frustrating issue for me as an employee, a car enthusiast and someone who reads a lot of negative thoughts on dealerships. The entire process of buying a car can be complicated, scary and confusing. The first time that I purchased a new vehicle, I wanted to vomit on my way home. I honestly have no idea how people buy houses. It took me four months to find a condo to rent. So, I understand that during such a frantic and disorienting experience in which you suddenly become tens of thousands of dollars poorer, people are likely to get angry if it does, in their eyes, not work out well for them. Dealerships can do something to help out with that, I think. We can explain everything .

Last week, I had a customer come in with a 2015 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid with less than 1,300 miles on it. He did not like the vehicle and he wanted to trade it in. He told me that he had very little negative equity on it due to his trade-in and the like, $5,000 in incentives that he took advantage of. Once we sat down and got into the finer details, I found that he was thousands of dollars upside down on his loan because he had been misled by the Hyundai salesperson. I had to go through and explain almost every word, term and phrase, before he understood what sort of situation he had gotten himself into.

Situations like these are easily avoidable, but some salespeople don’t care and realize that transparency can be the enemy. Where I work, if transparency is the enemy of a deal going through, then we aren’t going to work that deal. We’ll pass on it. Trust me when I say that none of us are losing out on many sales or large paychecks. I think that many salespeople unfortunately, are never happy with the amount of money that they make, or the management is never happy with any amount of sales. The sales culture at my job is exceedingly relaxed. Like, I wrote this entire thing in my office, relaxed. But, maybe I really am in Dealership Dreamland.

B/Xmrrmvr > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 13:10

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Which dealership do you work at?

RealPontiacFakePontiac > B/Xmrrmvr 07/20/2015 at 13:14

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I work at one dealership that is part of one of the largest names in my area. Why do you ask?

spanfucker retire bitch > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 13:16

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What I do not understand is the absoluteness that people often speak with when discussing dealerships, or as they frequently refer to them as, “stealerships”.

You and me both. I had a fantastic purchasing experience when I bought my Mazda3 from Towne. If I were to ever purchase another vehicle, I’d probably try and go back to their network because of how well they treated me. The “speaking in absolutes” have always bothered me as well.

B/Xmrrmvr > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 13:18

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I’d like to keep a mental note of worthwhile dealerships for when I finally get my own car.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 13:21

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People only write things that they feel strongly about. And usually things they feel strong negative feelings. There’s lots of beauty in the world, but many people choose to ignore the beauty, and take a pessimistic view on it.

“Oh science is making breakthroughs in cancer? Oh, I heard a story of somebody dying of it last week”

“Oh cars are infinitely more efficient then they were just 40 years ago? Why is the sea still rising?”

Etc.

But I will say you were wrong on one thing: Miata is still the answer to everything.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > B/Xmrrmvr 07/20/2015 at 13:22

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If you live in or near Ohio, you’ll likely come into one of our dealerships. We have people from Kentucky and West Virginia purchase vehicles from us fairly often.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > spanfucker retire bitch 07/20/2015 at 13:24

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I had a wonderful experience purchasing my first car and it wasn’t even from the dealership where I currently work. I completely understand that people have had negative experiences with dealerships and salespeople. I mean, I’ve had bad experiences trying to buy a tablet from Best Buy and those people don’t even get commission unless I buy an extended warranty. They don’t have nearly as much to gain from making sure a sale goes through or not, especially because I just walked in, asked for the tablet that I wanted and attempted to go straight to the cashier. I was ready to purchase, no sales process needed... But that’s not how this guy wanted it to happen.

But you know what? I’ll still go to Best Buy and purchase things if I want to. I just hope not to have that particular employee hand me a box full of electronics.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion 07/20/2015 at 13:27

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People definitely focus on the negative and it seems much easier to feel passionately about something bad than it does good. The bad things linger while the good things are fleeting, apparently. I get that, I do. But that is no reason to only ever speak in absolutes.

Miata is not the answer to everything! Stop it!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 13:27

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Yeah... I think you’re dreaming.

But seriously, there are good dealerships out there. For years now my dad has driven 3 hours away, past about 8 different dealerships, to go buy his trucks from one guy. My grandparents bought their cars from the original owner (he was their neighbor) and he always took care of them - now his son runs it, and my dad buys from him. 5 Trucks in the last 20 years, and we’ve sent at least half a dozen friends and family over there all who have bought vehicles from him.

And it’s not just mom and pop type places, I bought my last 2 cars from one of the largest franchises in the DC area (probably one of the biggest in the US). I just really liked my salesman and the dealership was easy to deal with. In fact I’ve recommended him and my father-in-law and aunt have also bought cars from him.

Honestly, I think a big part of it is that the people who get burned who scream the loudest. There are bad dealerships out there. I’ve shopped at them before. Had bait and switches pulled on me, etc. But I’m also smart enough to realize that it’s not every dealership that does this. Some people can’t seem to make that mental leap.

Also, as people we tend to gravitate to the negative, so one scathing negative review is going to be remembered while 50 good ones are forgotten. Also, I think some people are just plain stupid. It always seems the people who usually bitch and complain the most are the people who have no idea how the world works. We all have to be able to find a place to live, keep food in our bellies, provide for our families, etc. They don’t realize that their car has to be inspected, warrantied, etc. And there’s a whole host of regulatory things involve like titling and registration. Some people just don’t get it.

I’m glad you’re working for one of the good ones, though. Keep it up!

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Snuze: Needs another Swede 07/20/2015 at 13:31

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Thanks for the great reply, Snuze! I appreciate it. I definitely agree with your points, especially about some people just being plain stupid.

It’s pretty cool that you and your family have specific salespeople that you deal with. We have a guy like that here who has a massive customer base and they will only deal with him. He very rarely even works with people that he 1) has not sold to before or 2) did not have recommended to him.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 13:52

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Hey, when you find someone you like and can trust, keep going back. Everyone is a whore for a dollar these days, which is sad. I mean, I’m not going to over pay because I like someone or buy a crap product if that’s all a brand or dealer can offer me, but I won’t hesitate to go back to the same salesperson if I know they are going to treat me right, even if it is a few more dollars. All I want is a good purchasing experience and to know that dealership is going to be there if I have an issue, warranty work, etc. and no screw me around.

When I bought my Cruze, I was looking at another one at a nearby dealer. It had a sun roof, which I really wanted, but it was bright red with weird two-tone red interior which I wasn’t crazy about. The online price was really good, like $3k off MSRP. I figured I could live with the color if I got a good deal. So I went to the dealership and they weren’t particularly friendly or helpful, and seemed reluctant to talk pricing until I committed to buying the car.

So I went back to my guy who had sold me my Cobalt before that and checked out what was on the lot. We spent a while talking, about cars and life, he let me test drive both the Eco and the LT models since they are pretty significantly different (suspension setup, gearing, sound deadening, etc.). We talked rough numbers, and I decided to take a day and think about it. I came back the next day and my folks came with, my dad wanted to see the car, so he let me take my parents out in the LT I had picked out, unaccompanied, before we hammered out a deal. Mine is black on black and has a few premium features the other one didn’t, but no sun roof, and ended up being a few hundred more than the other guys price (well, the online price they wouldn’t discuss with me). But he treated me like a valued customer, and that’s way more important to me than a sunroof.

Meatcoma > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 14:06

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Your dealership may be the exception to the rule, but the rule is generally it’s not just a customer vs dealership way of thinking, it actually is us vs them.

Why didn’t you inform the customer that the A/C was not working? Even though you fixed it, I’m sure he would have liked to know that it wasn’t working and you did perform some service on it. Did you offer him any type of warranty on the service provided? Sounds shady to me, but then I’m sure you left some of that out.

I have had some positive experiences with dealerships, but I have had more negative ones for whatever reason and obviously the negative stand out more because they upset me.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Snuze: Needs another Swede 07/20/2015 at 14:12

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Sounds like you do business with a dealership similar to mine. We are very up front with our pricing, even if it is just someone calling or emailing and asking “What is the best that you can do on this?”. We are also very quick to tell a customer if we cannot match a price, because no one here likes to waste time. We won’t “think about” or “look into” a rock bottom price by another dealership, we all pretty much know what our managers will or will not approve. Our customers seem to appreciate that.

When we respond to leads from online sources like Cars.com, our first emails to the customer include our pricing. We go $500 - $1000 below invoice for all of our vehicles, so a $42,000 car for instance, would have a $4,000+ discount, typically. If a customer has a better offer from another dealership, we just tell them to go purchase it there, because we can’t negotiate any lower than our initial pricing.

The next that I purchase a vehicle, I am hoping to find someone that I can go to over the years, like you have found. But we’ll see. I enjoyed my first car buying experience, so I may just go back to that guy.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Meatcoma 07/20/2015 at 14:18

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The customer called us when he left and he lived about two and a half hours away. When the salesperson went out to pull the vehicle up front, the customer was about 20 minutes away. We didn’t want to tell him because yes, it may have damaged the sale. If we were unable to fix it, the customer would have been aware; as soon as he arrived, we let him know of the issue. That of course also could have damaged the sale, but at least he was here. I don’t honestly know if we offered a warranty on the service. The vehicle was already paid for and sold, so I believe that that limited what the salesperson wanted to do and constructed his handling of the situation. I didn’t make any decisions on all of that, just heard about it and walked back into our service center to check on it.

We have yet to hear back from the customer, so I am truly hoping that the issue was completely fixed. If it is not, I know that we would be willing to work on it for him, even if we would not gain any money from it. We pay for things like that quite often. One customer last month brought his brand new truck into us after owning it for a few days because he had already scratched some of the paint. We fixed that.

And, I ask this in a general sense, but why is it that negative experiences stand out more than good? Yes, it upset you, but the good ones please you. I really am asking in the sort of general, psychological sense, but I’m no shrink. I cannot say that I am not the same way, honestly. It seems to just be human nature, even with optimists, but why ?

Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 14:27

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In southwest Ohio ... interested to know more about your group.

Pontiac dealer by chance? ;-)

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? 07/20/2015 at 14:36

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Nope! In our entire network we currently have less than five Pontiac’s. We have dealerships located between Columbus and Cincinnati.

Send an email to somatization@gmail.com if you’d like.

lulinboy > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 14:47

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Former salesguy here. One of the first things they teach you when you start on the job is that a happy customer will hopefully tell somebody, but an unhappy one will tell 10 others, who will themselves retell the story over and over. It’s just a simple fact of life.

liquid_popcorn > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 15:32

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I’ll be emailing you in a moment as a fellow salesperson in a similar situation; subject line will be Dealerships. ;)

Meatcoma > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 15:52

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Well I’ve never had a really good experience, I’ve had bearable ones and I’ve had complete shitshows and probably everything in between.

I recently had a decent experience buying my wife’s juke, but when I went back to help my sons gf buy a car it was the complete opposite with the same salesman as well.

I’d bet I’m 2/10 on good experiences with dealerships. I think I’ve bought 3 cars were there really were no issues so I had a decent experience with those. I’ve actually never had an issue buying a vehicle from a person.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > liquid_popcorn 07/20/2015 at 15:55

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Replied!

Thanks.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > lulinboy 07/20/2015 at 15:56

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Yep! First rule of sales, basically.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 18:04

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Another aspect you have to realize is, the Internet is a very hypocritical place (just look at Tom and his shiny new GTI). So, while we groan and hate on dealerships, most likely we’ll still go to a dealership for our next car.

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion 07/20/2015 at 18:12

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Glorious point, haha.

Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/20/2015 at 19:40

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Well actually, that was an attempt at humor, given your screen name and the demise of Pontiac ...

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? 07/20/2015 at 20:33

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Haha yeah, when I first read your comment I wasn’t sure if you were joking about my name or not and was confused about the Pontiac Dealer question, but as I was at work, I was mostly in work mode.

I did laugh! I just didn’t respond as though I did.

Also, as someone who obviously liked a lot of what Pontiac did, RIP.

Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? > RealPontiacFakePontiac 07/21/2015 at 11:24

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My first car was a 1966 Pontiac Catalina (yes, I’m that old ...)

RealPontiacFakePontiac > Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? 07/21/2015 at 11:43

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Nothing wrong with that! Catalina’s were pretty looking cars. The previous generation probably had the coolest vehicles out of any generation afterwards, in my opinion. Of course that could be my never-having-experienced-it-nostalgia, but who knows.

Or maybe it is because my first car was a 1996 Ford Escort LX. Eventually I was able to buy a 2010 Pontiac Vibe GT, which is of course really a Toyota, and shortly after, I fell in love with and purchased a 1972 Pontiac LeMans Sport Convertible with the 5.7L V8, all original and still running. It is a ground up restoration, but at least it will drive!