The ND Miata should have been better

"Bytemite" (bytemite) 07/14/2015 at 22:56 • Filed to: None

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I know it is silly for me to whine about a car that I can’t even afford, but I just feel like the ND could have easily been better.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of those types to complain about godsends like the FR-S/BRZ and the Miata, but let’s just compare the two.

The twins started at $25,000, 200 hp 2.0 B4, and Torsen standard. Perfect balance, driving the right wheels, thank you Toyota and Subaru. It is a blast to drive and costs as much as a midsize sedan.

The Miata starts at $25,000, but to get a real differential you need the Club trim at $28,500.

It makes 155 hp out of a 2.0 I4. I know that is just the peak, but let’s be honest. 155 HP out of 2 liters? Is this 1995 or 2015? I thought they got 170 hp out a 2.0 in the NC. How did they manage to give it less power with a newer engine...

More importantly, why is it still so heavy? We all heard about their goal of shedding 200 kg from the NC. We were so excited when we heard that the next generation Miata would be returning back to its roots to become a 2100 lb car. But it seems they overshot and under-delivered. Mazda dropped just HALF of what they aimed for. If weight shedding was a class, they got an F.

Just imagine if Mazda actually tried harder to drop 440 lbs and kept the power at 170 hp. That would be a performer to justify the huge increase in price. The ND looks great as it is and I am sure it performs well. But at 29 grand, I would think the BRZ is the better deal here.

Yes, I would like cheese with my whine.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:02

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Uh, Google is telling me it starts at $24,915...

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:02

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Starts at $30k? Wut?

daender > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:06

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Um, the ND weighs less than the NB and on-par some most NA Miatas while having a 20+ hp advantage over them. Also, maybe the detuned engine is to keep up with CAFE fuel economy standards or help keep insurance rates low?

boxrocket > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:09

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...trollolololol?

Bytemite > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 07/14/2015 at 23:09

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Okay..I see it was the launch editions that started at 30k.

this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:09

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The Toyobaru has a low revving boxer 4...

Nit picking aside, the ND is (depending on spec) within 10 pounds of an airbag equipped 1.6L NA. 300 lbs less than a BRZ/FRS even with a rag top. It’s shorter than the NA, with modern safety systems and tech. It’s also a true front-mid layout, which is pretty damn cool. If you look at the price, adjusted for inflation it lines up with the NA.

As for power, I’m sure 160 is plenty to have a bit of fun, especially in such a light car. More importantly, as you point out, this probably means the motor is very understressed—a bit of tuning will go a long way.

TheOnelectronic > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:10

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The lower HP is due to balancing the power curve, IIRC. It has less peak, but more area under the curve.

Also, if you want something with the power of a miata but is 700lbs lighter and starts at $20,000, I have an answer for you:

wafflesnfalafel > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:10

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I think you are running into the “convertable vs. coupe” issue. More weight and complexity needed to support the drop top. But I completely agree I wish Mazda would have upspec’d the power. Maybe we’ll get a turbo “speed” version at some point in the future...

Bytemite > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 07/14/2015 at 23:13

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Yeah I confused the Launch editions with the base. Lol, silly me. Edited post.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:18

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Yeah but how hard would it have been for either of them to drop in a turbo. Everyone is running turbos now. The technology is so refine why not?! STI BRZ... Suspension/aero kit/exhaust? Even though EVERYONE wanted more power. It’s ok they’re just following Nismo. Aero/suspension/exhaust +20 hp for the 370z Nismo. Meanwhile it’s only pulling 50 more HP than the Maxima....

But back to the brz and ND. Being that they’re enthusiast cars they need to stop boasting about mpg? The ND is a two seater roadster- you’re not going to be using it to DD your 2.5 children to and from school and soccer practice. You already put your kids through college and you are enjoying your years you planned out for so it’s ok you want some thrill from some Powahh.

Bytemite > wafflesnfalafel 07/14/2015 at 23:19

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Well yeah I guess you are right. The convertible top does need more money. I don’t even want more HP, just don’t want Mazda giving us less HP than we know they can put out. I was looking forward to 170 hp with 2,000 lb weight. And I think they could have done it.

TheOnelectronic > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul 07/14/2015 at 23:23

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The sad fact of the matter is that Miata sales are going to be largely driven by “OH IT’S SO CUTE!!!” rather than its performance chops. It’s kind of amazing it’s remained so enthusiast-focused in its design.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:24

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A few points here.

1) Similar to the BRZ/FR-S, the miata does not share its platform with many other vehicles on the road. The NC was modified to become the RX-8 but besides the alfa roadster, that’s it.

2) The NC was more expensive I believe. And the ND is still a bit quicker on most tracks

3) “Simplify and add lightness” is a motto that costs money when you also want to not die if you hit something

4) This is an odd sort of engineering. It is a car that was engineered with the highest degrees of technology and wisdom to behave like an older car with older technology from 20+ years ago. It is an NA miata, but better in every way possible. With as few concessions as possible. This takes skill and talent that needs to be bought.

5) 25-30k for one of the best driving cars on the market? You are out of your mind to think it “should be better”.

To settle your own mind, try and find the one that is “better”. Similar to the 100mpg car hoax back in the 90s, if mazda could’ve made it better, they would have. But given their constraints, they did the absolute best that they could. As I said before, my own Fiesta ST is the best Fiesta Ford could sell for the low 20k range and it drives mind blowingly well!......But it is still a fiesta at heart. The miata offers a purity that isn’t matched by other cars. And whether or not that purity is for you, well that’s up to you to decide. But it is difficult to imagine it any “better” for the price point given what mazda did and had to work with. Do not confuse numbers for experience.

Bytemite > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul 07/14/2015 at 23:27

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I don’t want the ND to have more power really. I just thought it would have been easy enough for them to give us 170 hp out of a 2.0. If we want 300 hp cars, theres hundreds of other porky “sports cars” out there that fill that need. It is the light-weight, nimble, real sports cars that we lack. The Miata and the FR-S is the only ones covering that.

This is the reason why I can never understand the people wanting turbos or more power on these cars. You have a huge selection of turbo and high HP cars you can choose from. Just leave the two accessible cars with the less-is-more mentality alone and enjoy your wide selection.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > TheOnelectronic 07/14/2015 at 23:31

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I believe it. But the driving factor there is the early adopter are the ones picking it up because it’s cute then the enthusiasts grab them cheap and exploit their potential. I see 5 times as many modified NA’s and NB’s than I do stock NC’s. Same goes for Mini Coppers too. I haven’t seen a new Mini in months yet I have 3 heavily modified olds generation MCs in my neighborhood currently.

Bytemite > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/14/2015 at 23:34

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Great response.

I love the ND Miata. But weren’t you also wishing that they fulfilled their promise of losing 200 kg? That would have been something else.

Milky > Bytemite 07/14/2015 at 23:47

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Fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata, fiata.

It’ll be like a Miata but with a minimum of 160hp. Probably at least 180hp.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 00:37

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Similar to the people who whined nonstop about the ride height and body roll, Mazda employed the best engineers in the world that they could get their hands on. I have every reason to doubt that I, myself, with a handful of craftsman sockets and wrenches and some rulers and a sawzall, could do any better.

200kg would have been nice. But keep in mind that emissions and safety standards got tighter since the NC miata. Also they wanted it to stay as a roadster. And still be mid to high 20k. And still be amazing to drive. I’d rather the number be sacrificed for the actual car that is made. I can find any number of terrible cars that weigh less than the NC miata. The weight is just a number when proper engineering is involved.

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 00:45

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A few things to note:

Mazda has been operating independently for several years now. With no major corporation to draw both capital and existing platforms/engines from, Mazda has essentially developed two new engines (SkyActiv gas and diesel), at least three new platforms (3/CX5, 6, ND), and engineer it’s own unique approach to getting close-to-hybrid fuel economy without actually resorting to spending the money on developing their own/leasing hybrid tech from Toyota. They don’t have Ford’s coffers to pay for this any more, so they only money they have is they money they earn by sellings 2s, 3s, and CX-5s. In 2014 Q3, Mazda had the SIXTH highest sales of all Japanese car makers. Number five was Daihatsu, which sold 529,199 vehicles. Mazda had sold 172,291 at that point. LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT GAP! Of course, Toyota was first, with 1,180,749. Mazda has completely rebuilt themselves, BY THEMSELVES, after being jettisoned by Ford, while selling literally ONE EIGHTH of the units that Toyota does. The fact that we even have an ND at the quality we got is FLIPPING AMAZING, man.

(In some respects, the only reason we even got the NA was because they had Ford’s money to fall back on if the sales were dismal and the investment ended up being a loss.)

And what DOES Toyota do with all the money? They sure as hell don’t invest in new Camry platforms! They fling army duffel bags filled with cash at Fuji Heavy Industries to build them a “Miata competitor” that they can slap their own badges on.

The partnership with Fiat wasn’t announced until the ND was more than halfway done, and it isn’t a merger. Mazda isn’t suddenly gaining access to Fiat’s coffers; they’re just selling ND platforms to Fiat.

Mazda built something pretty unique, completely unrelated to ANYTHING ELSE on their product line, meaning that their profits on that tooling and machine and development are basically ZILCH compared to what they do with the 3 and 6 platforms, and they did it because they know that drivers like you and I exist. A small, but passionate minority in a world where the Camry, Odessey, and Suburban are the only things people want, a company that doesn’t have a tenth of the profits that those nameplates generate did that FOR YOU. And you’re going to whine that you didn’t get exactly what you felt you deserved?

When you’re CEO of Mazda, I’m sure you’ll get it all fixed. You’ve got all the answers.

Frank Grimes > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 07/15/2015 at 01:25

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I love my 2300lb 133hp NA. Its just one of those cars that are such a joy to drive I dont think numbers and HP can express the fun and driving experience. This new one is great looking has more power than mine and the same weight with much more toys and junk and does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

Textured Soy Protein > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 01:43

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The LSD has always been optional on the Miata.

The NC had a unique, more highly tuned version of the regular 140 hp 2.0 liter MZR motor sold in cars like the 3. The ND does not get a separate version of the regular 2.0 liter SkyActiv motor, it uses the exact same motor. It does get way better fuel economy than the NC.

Mazda hit their weight reduction goal with the base 1.5 liter version of the ND, which is sold outside the US.

Bytemite > Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious 07/15/2015 at 02:55

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I think we can both agree that the ND Miata is amazing. I am not saying it should have fit exactly into my unrealistic vision of the car. But I just thought Mazda engineers could get more out of their 2.0 SkyActiv. Those numbers are just pathetic. It isn’t even the HP, it is the HP to weight ratio that could have been better. The 1.5 engine is much lighter but could have been tuned to make around 150 hp. In this day and age 100 hp per liter isn’t hard. That change alone would have been impressive. This engine however, is totally unchanged from their pedestrian car. There was just no effort.

Also, for the weight, why not lower the dimensions of the car to meet the 200 kg mark at all costs. Too much effort went into making the Miata safe and light at the same time. It is an engineering marvel, but it would have been more effective for weight shedding to ditch some of the safeness. Would an enthusiast driver want 5 star crash safety if it meant adding more weight? Just target a 2 or 3 star crash safety rating while making the car much lighter.

Easily 2,000 lb, 1.5 L 150 hp car right there.

Iheartmy365kHonda - Car enthusiasts do like FWD > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 03:00

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Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 04:48

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A lot of the Miata’s sales volume comes from people in their 50s and 60s, as well as the “secretary market” (the unofficial name of buyers base V6 Mustangs). That’s why there are a surprising number of slushbox Miatas made. Those kinds of buyers ARE concerned with crash ratings, and if you axe them, you’ve just axed 40-60% of new Miata buyers. (A lot of enthusiasts buy USED Miatas, after all.) Again, it’s already a financially bad decision for Mazda to even build the thing, and to intentionally give it a low safety rating essentially makes it a money pit they could never sustain.

When your pour ALL your resources into creating the most die hard track car you can possibly create, that only a remote few buyers even want, you become post-2012 Mitsubishi.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 09:02

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I agree with you the weight, but I think they had to balance weight, with ergonomics, tech, safety standards, and price.

But there is the engine... 155HP? I don't need that much horsepower, but enough to get by the by a big rig would be nice.

jjhats > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 09:05

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except that the Miata is faster and better than the frs in every way. quicker 0-60 quicker 1/4 mile lighter better mpg better skidpad better figure eight. its better than the frs in every way. if you want to argue its overpriced ok but don’t be one of those 150 hp isn’t enough guys. also its a lot easier to add power than remove weight

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 09:41

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you want cheap power? go buy a 2015 mustang ecoboost. $25K gets you a RWD 315HP turbo coupe that can make 350+hp with just a tune.

That’s not the point of the miata

The point of the Miata is to provide a driving experience that connects the driver to the road, and allows him to fully utilize the capabilities of the car. This has always been the Miata philosophy: slow car fast. from what I have heard, it has a supreme chassis; one that handles tracks and backroads with poise, and with some body roll.

and on the weight point?

The original NA with a 1.6L engine had a dry weight of 940kg (2070lbs) and it made a “whopping” 115 horsepower.

The ND with the stronger 2L engine weights 998kg (2,200lbs) and it makes 155 horsepower. that is a 40hp increase, with a weight increase of just 58 kilos. I think that that is admirable, considering the ND dropped between 112kg (247lbs) (soft top base) and 155kg (342lbs) (hard top GT) and had a loss of only 15hp.

Also, don’t forget the NC’s came base with 5-speeds, whereas all ND sticks are 6-speeds.

The Miata is as close to the Na as it can get, and the paltry anorexic teenage girl’s weight it’s put on over the past 25 years of existence is only necessary to accommodate all the safety gizmos the 1990MY Miata was missing, as well as all the creature comforts the buyer of 2015 desires.

Bytemite > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 07/15/2015 at 15:28

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I think you misunderstood my point. I dont want cheap hp, and I certainly know what Miatas are about. I drive an NA and I am always talking about the pure sports cars. My point is that the hp didnt need to be so little from such a big engine. They should have made a 145 hp 1.5. That would have been reasonable. Again, I dont want HP, it is the lack of hp to weight and displacement ratio from their engine that I am having an issue with.

The Spaceman > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 17:47

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I’m grateful for what they didn’t do, but easiky could have. Like make it heavier, or turn it into a luxury barge like the Datsun Zs became. The fact that it moved back toward the original concept at all is cause for celebration, regardless of any minor failings. I’ll have an Arrest Me Red one, please.

jeebus > Bytemite 07/15/2015 at 22:56

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I think the fact that it lost ANY weight at all, in this modern age of super safety, is amazing. And while I do wish it had more power, keep in mind this engine makes quite a bit more torque than the old engine, and everywhere in the powerband too. Plus it gets waaaaaaay better mpg. I paid $4.79 for gas today in socal, better mileage sounds great. So what you end up with is exactly what the miata always was... Simple, light, nimble... Only it's better in every way than any of its predecessors.

samssun > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 00:38

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Mazda has great designs and driving dynamics, but can’t afford to develop modern engines. A partnership with a large scale automaker would keep them from dying a slow, boring, slow death. Say, reviving the Ford relationship. Every car in the Mazda lineup would be an immediate class leader with an Ecoboost engine.

Miata: 1.6T. Mazdaspeed Miata: 2.0T. Optional MegaMiata: 2.3T.

3: 1.6T. 3S: 2.0T. Mazdaspeed3: 2.3T + AWD, battling STIs.

6: 2.0T. 6S: 2.3T + AWD. Mazdaspeed 6: 2.7TT + AWD, budget S4/335xi.

Bytemite > samssun 07/16/2015 at 00:41

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The best one would be a 1.0T Miata. Oh the weight savings. But yeah the 1.6T sounds great. Maybe if they could squeeze out more than just 130 hp out of a 1.5, everything would be just dandy.

CRider > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 03:27

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If you want a $10k car that weighs 400 lbs, get a motorcycle. Otherwise, stop bitching that cars have airbags and crash structure and air conditioning and waterproof roofs that add weight. Cars don’t need to be go carts to handle well, safety matters even in race cars.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 04:21

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like I outlined, the weight increase is really minimal between the NA and the ND, while the power has gone up significantly (for the weight)

While I won’t argue that it should have more power, because everything should have more power; the amount it has really sounds like it is more than enough.

And the fact that it “only” makes 155hp from a 2.0?

keep in mind ford only got 305hp out of a 4.6 just 6 years ago, in a car that weighed about 3,400lbs; and everyone loved those mustangs!

it's enough hp for the thing, while it may seem stupid that it only makes 155hp out of a 2.0

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > samssun 07/16/2015 at 04:24

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excuse me sir, can’t afford to develop modern engines? have you heard of a little thing called skyactive? it’s what lets the Mazda 6 have a small 4-pot with no turbo, and have the great performance it does. skyactive allows these cars to get great MPG’s, while running at super-high compression giving good performance.

The reason why mazdas engines don't seem "modern" is because of a lack of boost in them, but I applaud them for not going the ford ecoboost route, because everyone and their mother's got turbos, might as well go old school on something

samssun > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 07/16/2015 at 05:16

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No Skyactiv has great performance. They jack the compression way up and use goofy valve timing to prevent knock, giving up output to eek out a couple more mpg. They’re the anti-performance engine.

The most prevalent version has 155 hp, the “upscale” engine is good for 170, and even the 2.5 tops out at 182. Those numbers were pitiful a decade ago, and now that we can get 300 and 400 out of engines with reasonable mileage, it’s a waste of their design talent.

samssun > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 05:33

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The iron 1.0 gets 120hp from 215 lbs. I don’t know why everyone fetishizes it, that’s like a V8 getting 240hp. The 2.0 gets 250-275hp from 325 lbs, a good 50% better power/weight, and the 2.3 has even better potential with little weight added. Even the 1.6 only weighs about 30 lbs more than the 1.0 but is good for 80 more hp, before tuning.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > samssun 07/16/2015 at 05:52

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well in a world of MPG's, decent performance and economy need to work together. i'm sorry you don't seem to think the skyactive engines are any good, but

Bytemite > samssun 07/16/2015 at 05:59

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I like NA engines over turbos for the weight savings and the simplicity. I wonder how much the 2.0 SkyActiv weighs compared to the 1.5. And if the 1.5 could be tuned to make around 145 HP, Mazda wouldn’t need one engine for North America and another for other countries.

samssun > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 06:37

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I'm all for NA, just not if I'm stuck with 4 cylinders. I don't see them ever giving the Miata an I6 or V8, and Ford is churning out Ecoboosts by the millions, so that seems like such an obvious match to me.

AutoMiata > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 07:54

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Mazda also had to maintain the longevity of the Miata. Miatas last longer than most cars. Their engines are simple and trouble free. Their maintenance is inexpensive. But now with the Skyactive high compression engine, we and Mazda for that matter don’t know if it will last like the older engine. Turbocharge the Skyactive and suddenly cost, maintenance, longevity and fuel economy are compromised. There is a reason there are no Tubo Mazda6 models. Think about how the Skyactive engine, which has the highest comp ratio in gasoline engines, avoids knocking and pre-detonation. Now throw in the additional compression provided by a turbo. You will end up with a Cosworth type Formula 1 engine good for one race only.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 09:05

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Have you driven it?

this is a car that’s more than the sum of its on-paper specs

Dolby109 > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 11:02

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A lot of people (purists) saying it doesn’t “need” more power, and they are right, it doesn’t. But why not have the option? 200hp would make the Miata more fun all around, and especially more fun on straight roads that occupy most of America. 250hp would make it actually fast, and able to keep up with cars like the Cayman, Camaro, and M4.

155hp is good enough for the base...but offer a Mazdaspeed please!

Patrick > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 11:11

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Un saluto a
voi, non sono un meccanico e la mia conoscenza è limitatata. Penso hai compromessi che Mazda ha cercato di fare con la Mx5. Ha cercato di tener una linea innovativa, ha migliorata nella meccanica e tecnologia e un prezzo modico. Non è un auto esagerata nei numeri… guidatela per un periodo e poi giudicatale. Non aspettatevi la solita tedesca… è semplicemente una MX5.

Bytemite > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 07/16/2015 at 15:16

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Oh definitely. I haven’t driven it but I am just disappointed Mazda didn’t meet their weight goal.

Bytemite > samssun 07/16/2015 at 15:20

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4 Cylinder NAs are the best fit for a Miata. An I6 is too long. V6 unnecessarily heavy.

S2000 got 240 hp. FR-S has 200 hp. Why does Mazda get 155 out of the same displacement? Toyota could probably build them a 1.5 L 4 pot with 155 hp.

Mark Jensen > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 15:49

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If peak horsepower means so much, how is it that the ND has a .5 second advantage 0-60 on the twins?

NickD > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 16:02

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You clearly don’t know much about cars and this car in particular. There are already multiple tests showing the regardless of the changes in weight and hp it’s better than all its previous generations in every category. Do a little more research next time. And as a side note, only the launch editions are overpriced.

Bytemite > Mark Jensen 07/16/2015 at 16:17

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Really? the FR-S gets 6.2 sec 0-60. I would be amazed to see the Miata get 5.7 seconds.

Peak horsepower doesn’t mean much if you aren’t shifting gears or if you are starting from idle. But when it comes to racing or full throttle, peak horsepower is your horsepower.

Bytemite > NickD 07/16/2015 at 16:23

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I love it when someone participates in a friendly discussion. I never said it wasn’t better than previous generations? And I never said my word is law or that I know everything, so I don’t understand why you feel the need to talk in such a hostile tone. I just thought if Mazda were to offer the 1.5 L engine in North America with enough power (around 145 hp), then we would see the lighter Miata in the states. Everyone else can get that much power from a 1.5, Mazda can too. That alone would drop 130 lbs in the front of the car. Then some other weigh saving measures could have been taken to drop 100 more pounds to meet their original weight goal of 200 kgs below the NC..

Meremy > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 18:52

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Why don’t you talk to your brethren who actually drove the car (like Justin Hughes) before you go posting negativity. It’s a Miata. It’s not supposed to go a lot faster, but it goes a little bit faster (familiarize yourself with http://m.motortrend.com/features/perfo… ).

samssun > Bytemite 07/16/2015 at 18:55

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Skyactiv engines are low output by design. They’re using a Miller/Atkinson cycle, where you extend the expansion stroke to squeeze more efficiency out of each power cycle. Since that’s hard to do physically, you fake it by holding the intake valve open and reducing the compression stroke relative to expansion. This means less fuel/air charge and decreased output.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_…

Mark Jensen > Bytemite 07/17/2015 at 00:06

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“We managed to crack the six-second barrier at the test track, recording a 5.9-second sprint to 60 mph”

Source: http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-m…