Epiphany, I had it

"505 - morphine not found" (morphine500) 07/13/2015 at 04:19 • Filed to: None

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So I had this idea, that I wanted to discuss with you people, but it’s really not that interesting, therefore I thought maybe post it when it’s morning in my timezone, and no one else is around this place. Oh, and have some ‘80s goodness for your time and consideration.

OK, here’s the deal: I think the manual transmission and the V8 engine play similar parts in life of enthusiasts on the opposite shores of the Atlantic.

The wast, overwhelming majority of cars in Europe have 4 pot engines, and even smaller motors are present in considerable numbers. The 6-8-10-12 cylinder cars are basically luxury items, especially the ones that don’t get sold officially on these shores - and it so happens, that this category includes almost all of the American V8s. This means, that we Europeans simply don’t have personal experience with them (for the most part), so basically, even among enthusiasts, telling apart the V8 in a 2005 Ford F-150 from the V8 in a 2005 Ford GT is a problem. This makes for an interesting discrepancy when discussing cars like the Cadillac XLR or the Chevrolet SSR, which, for my untrained ear, do sound right and are powerful enough, while most of you will scoff at them for not being sporty enough.

On the other hand, we Europeans have to be able to drive manual by default. Although this is changing, but for the past decades, driving training done in manual cars was mandatory before you could get a licence, and most of us use, or have used a manual car daily - that is simply the norm. Therefore, for most of the enthusiasts around here the precise but lifeless shift action found in a manual VW Golf or Toyota Corolla does not represent sportiness, while quite a lot of Americans frequenting these pages consider a Golf Sportwagon sporty precisely because they can row their own in it.

See what I’m getting at? It seems quite a lot of the discussions we are having here in this international drivers’ club, are informed by supply-demand differences between the USDM and the EUDM. And who are the people having a laugh? Of course it’s the Australians, who get American muscle as well as European finesse and Japanese precision available to buy at will. So I would say it’s time to finally get the people at EPA and the EU Commission together, supply them with booze and boxing gloves, and finally get a united North-Atlantic car market.

You know, for the kids!

Flavien Vidal > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 04:30

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Keep in mind how much buying a car costs in Australia... Fucking expensive! So they are not laughing that much... they mostly envy Americans, Europeans and Japanese for being able to buy great cars for next to nothing :)

Also buying American muscles in Europe or Japan is not that expensive nor is it difficult... on the other hand buying a cool European or Japanese car that is less than 25 years old in the US?? Keep dreaming... The land of the free... but not TOO free lol

505 - morphine not found > Flavien Vidal 07/13/2015 at 04:37

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Although it’s not forbidden (like in the US with the 25 year rule) to buy american muscle in Europe, but because these weren’t sold here when new, and therefore aren’t on dealer lots, it needs quite a bit bigger effort on your part, than a European car. Also, since when was buying and keeping a car cheap in Europe? Especially if you consider gas prices, and that you have to import the parts for it yourself (again: no official background...), which mean that even a lowly 1980s Chevy truck with a V8 will be a luxury item, because the upkeep’s so dear...

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 04:41

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I’ve lived in Europe and the US, and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here! The large engine stuff especially.

i’m from Serbia, where you need about 900 euros to register a 2000 Audi A8L 4.2, like the un-registered one in my cousin’s driveway.

Meanwhile in America, my friends think my car is the coolest thing for many reasons, but one of them is my ability to drive it, because it's manual. I think driving stick is easy, and most of them seem to be able to really grasp it as well as my European friends

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > Flavien Vidal 07/13/2015 at 04:45

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Shit you just can’t win...

Flavien Vidal > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 04:46

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I definitly don’t agree with that... Buying and owning a car in France for exemple is quite resonnable compared to the rest of the world.

If not your daily driver, it’s VERY easy to insure your car as a “collectible car”, despite the car being only something like 10 years old. To give you an exemple, my 1992 Mini is insured as a collectible car and costs me 160€ per year to insure. But it could very well have been a 2000 C5 Z06 Corvette and it would have cost about the same price.

Sure gas is a bit expensive, but apart from the US and a few arabic countries, it’s the same problem everywhere in the “developped” world.

Importing a car in France from the US when this one is less than 30 years old is going to cost you roughly 5000€ extra for shipping and getting it to apply to french regulations. So obviously you won’t spend that kind of money to import a 1996 Mustang GT, but for newer cars it’s not that bad at all...

Of course, if you live in the Netherlands/Denmark or in Norway/Finland/Sweden, then I can only be sorry for you because owning a car there is freaking INSANELY expensive... But everywhere else, it’s pretty much normal...

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 04:46

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Sometimes I wish that I had a passion for collecting napkins or postage stamps or some other shit because this obsession with cars is such an expensive hobby lifestyle...

Flavien Vidal > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' 07/13/2015 at 04:56

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What do you mean?

KnowsAboutCars > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 05:02

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Actually you can find new US imports on dealer lots at least in Northern Europe. There are companies that buy new cars from USA and then import them here. For example here’s a brand new Challenger Hellcat and a Ram . The fuel prices are high though.

duurtlang > Flavien Vidal 07/13/2015 at 06:40

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Agreed on the Netherlands part. Well, it depends. My 205 GTI costs me peanuts to tax (€20 a month) and insure (€10-15 or so a month). If I were to import one it would cost next to nothing either, save for shipping. I im ported an ‘89 E30 Touring last year, getting it registered in the Netherlands was about €100-130. Because of its age there were no taxes involved, other than ‘normal’ monthly ownership tax.

Getting myself a newish Mustang GT isn’t worth it though. Gas guzzler (CO2) tax would be too prohibitive, many tens of thousands of Euros. Getting something thirsty and recent is the biggest financial problem here. Old and/or frugal is totally doable.

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > Flavien Vidal 07/13/2015 at 08:12

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Well just how there are no V8s in europe, no sticks in the US and the Aussies get both but everything is too expensive...

Flavien Vidal > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' 07/13/2015 at 08:15

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Yeah that’s pretty much how it works :)

On the other hand, owning a used V8 that would be a few years old in Europe is not that bad.... I don’t know how it is in Croatia, but in France, when you buy a car, you only pay for road taxes once. In the US, in most states, they have to pay for their license plate (a tab) and it costs about 400$ a year on average. In France, sure your V8 will end up getting you to pay 2000€ to lincese it, but after that, you’ll never have to pay anything anymore for the rest of your life with it...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 08:45

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So anyone with a manual V8 is #WINNING?

505 - morphine not found > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/13/2015 at 09:02

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Does that even need stating? #yesofcourse

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 09:07

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I thought I was, but confirmation is always nice - ha!

ly2v8-Brian > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 10:32

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The manual transmission and ‘sportiness’ thing is because it’s so fetishized around here. Like it’s the end all be all of performance power transmission. It's not.

RallyWrench > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 13:09

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Starred because quattro and Delta, and good subject. A united market is happening, if slowly, because economies of scale and global platform sharing means that we’re all gradually gaining access to versions of the same cars.

The V8 is an American tradition, and one we hold dear, but it’s one that is gradually reaching the end of its reign as the reality of high fuel prices, increased economy standards, and packaging requirements nudge it into ever-smaller market share. They can be quite efficient though, as demonstrated by the Corvette’s 30mpg. Large engines turning slowly, getting by on an abundance of torque and assisted by cylinder deactivation can do amazing things, satisfying the need for power and economy, at least for now.

All that said, cheap V8 speed won’t last forever here in the US. The last of such cars that remain affordable to mere mortals are arguably Fox-body Mustangs and F-body Camaros and Firebirds, and good examples of those are both appreciating and increasingly hard to find.

Nauraushaun > Flavien Vidal 07/13/2015 at 22:58

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I think Australians also earn more, which offsets the cost.

Nauraushaun > 505 - morphine not found 07/13/2015 at 22:58

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Australians don’t get American muscle. They get Australian muscle, which is a different flavor (sedans, utes, no coupes). Dodge’s entire range in Australia is the Journey, a car Fiat will also sell you as the Freemont. They never sold the Viper here, we’ve never had Challengers, Chargers, Corvettes, Chevelles, Camaros, Mustangs etc etc etc.
We also don’t get as many Japanese cars as you think. There are Skylines, Legnums, Stageas and Delicas over here, but they’re all grey imports. We don’t have a 25 year rule (we have other rules) and we’re already RHD so it’s easier to import.