"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
07/11/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None
20
61|
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
07/11/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None | 20
| 61 |
I recently paid a visit to the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn, Michigan, and made a point to visit and photograph one of the coolest vehicles ever built. The Goldenrod, which set a land speed record - and probably a record for having the most Hemis under one hood.
In 1965, Bob and Bill Summers - the Summers Brothers as they were known - build a vehicle with the intent of setting a new land speed record for a wheel-driven vehicle. At the time, jet power was all the rage at Bonneville but these guys wanted to see what a more conventional setup could do. At least “conventional” as in piston engine power.
So, they got four Hemis (the good old 426 cubic inch ones), assembled them under an insanely long body (the car is 32 feet long) and put a cockpit at the back for “Bob” to aim this thing. The four Hemis put power to the wheels by “Two Spicer 5-speed manuals with first gear removed, simultaneous shifting via special Hurst shifter.” Eh, first gear is for wimps.
And it did set a new record. It crossed the salt at an official 409.277 MPH - a new record for wheel-driven cars. And that record stood until 1991. The brothers got their pic on the cover of Hot Rod and the car now resides in the museum. According to the signage, the car had something like 2,400 horsepower. And I remember reading the article about it in Hot Rod (it was the same issue that introduced Dodge’s “New ‘Charger.’” The four Hemis were more or less stock.
I’ve noted before that the Henry Ford is well worth the visit. They also have a Tucker and a Turbine Car, along with acres of other important and cool cars and machines.
And, as I always do on Saturday, I must remind you that
Lehto’s Law
for the week is out.
In Podcast form.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
And Video form.
Carry on.
Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.
AM
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:10 |
|
They should remake this car but with 4 or 5 hellcat engines.
|
SteveLehto
> AM
07/11/2015 at 09:11 |
|
Daily driver?
|
AM
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:14 |
|
Eh can't be impossible right?
GhostZ
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:33 |
|
“more or less stock” is a bit iffy with a 426 hemi. Stock in terms of the NASCAR-spec maybe, with the right fuel, could make a short term 800HP per engine. But stock as in, the kind you found in production vehicles, obviously not.
fishingWithFredo
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:34 |
|
Will it fit in a drive through?
|
SteveLehto
> GhostZ
07/11/2015 at 09:35 |
|
Why do you say “obviously not”? The article describing the car in Hot Rod said they were “more or less stock.” (I believe that is a direct quote.)
|
SteveLehto
> fishingWithFredo
07/11/2015 at 09:35 |
|
One that is 32 feet 1 inch long or longer, yes.
Vinne_4S
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:35 |
|
Well there’s always tractor pulling rigs if you need more hemis but they really don’t have a hood in those cases to be fair...
Roque Antonio Mocán Quan
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:40 |
|
I think I saw the driver of this car in one of Austin Powers films...
Quadradeuce
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:40 |
|
I’m not a hemi person. Did the 426 get 600hp stock?
|
SteveLehto
> Quadradeuce
07/11/2015 at 09:45 |
|
There is a HUGE debate about what they put out “stock.” The real question is: What does ‘more or less’ mean in this context? It appears these were carbureted and so on. Did they have a lumpy cam? That, I do not know.
cbckly962
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:49 |
|
PatBateman
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:49 |
|
Wait wait. Why are Hemis at the Henry FORD museum?
BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest.
> PatBateman
07/11/2015 at 09:54 |
|
It’s more than just Fords. More than just cars too. There’s trains, steam generators, houses, the Rosa Parks bus, airplanes, the past presidential limos, etc.
|
SteveLehto
> PatBateman
07/11/2015 at 09:54 |
|
The museum has a wide array of stuff, not all of it Ford. The Turbine, the Tucker, and so on. It is a seriously cool place to visit for car folk, airplane fans (they have a bunch of those) and also just really cool old equipment like steam engines and so on.
|
BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest.
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:58 |
|
Wikipedia says 433 hp stock, that would put it at 1732 hp. Referenced from Allpar.com
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/dyn…
1965gto
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 09:59 |
|
I had the model, AMT1/24 I think. It would be fun to build the same concept using todaay’s technology
|
SteveLehto
> BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest.
07/11/2015 at 10:02 |
|
I don’t count Wikipedia as a source. They were rated at 425 by the MFR but everyone said that was to make insurance companies less skittish.
|
BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest.
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 10:06 |
|
The source is Allpar, not wikipedia. In gross ratings, it was rated at 350, in net ratings, it was 425, the dyno sheet at the link shows 433.
|
SteveLehto
> BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest.
07/11/2015 at 10:13 |
|
I thought your comment said “Wikipedia says . . . Referenced from Allpar.” I took that to mean that Allpar was quoting Wikipedia.
I’ve read a lot about this and even seen documentaries on it. It depends on how the test is done and whether you are allowed to “tweak” the engine at all or are literally running it stock (as in Exactly as it came from the factory).
In the Goldenrod’s case, there were no requirement for it to be configured stock. It’s just that they said it was stock “more or less.” I don’t know what was more or less about it.
|
93Miata
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 10:16 |
|
Everyone thinks the muscle car they had in the 70’s ran 10’s too.
Most modern restoration builds built (mostly) to factory specs put down numbers in the mid-high 400’s on the engine dyno.
Hot Takes Salesman
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 10:16 |
|
Did they have any Sherman tanks, as Ford produced the 18 liter (!) GAA V8 that powered the M4A3?
|
SteveLehto
> BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest.
07/11/2015 at 10:20 |
|
I just looked at the Allpar page. That is a single page someone found of a dyno test done on a Hemi. No one knows (and it was submitted anonymously) what the purpose of that test was, or what the situation was with that particular Hemi. Hard to say that the one dyno test found in the garbage with no context speaks authoritatively for all later Hemis.
|
SteveLehto
> 93Miata
07/11/2015 at 10:22 |
|
That’s probably right. (Factory build). But I HAVE heard from very authoritative sources that it did not not take much (if you knew what you were doing) to bump the output of a Hemi WAY up. Might involve things like rejetting the carbs (or slapping on dual quads) but the potential for the engine was much higher.
MrJones
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 10:29 |
|
The significance of the Summers Brothers accomplishment here was (unfairly) eclipsed by the “Spirit of America” jet “car”. Wheel-driven is the operative term here. The engineering behind syncing all of this piston driven power and applying it to the wheels is nothing short of amazing. Also worth noting is the fact that the Goldenrod was nearly 13 feet shorter in length, 4+ feet narrower in width, 2+ feet shorter in height and around 3,000 pounds lighter than the Spirit.
dmoon
> PatBateman
07/11/2015 at 10:47 |
|
They also have a Honda Civic and a Wienermobile.
Shiyal
> Vinne_4S
07/11/2015 at 10:58 |
|
Mmmmmmm... Nice.
My X-type is too a real Jaguar
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 12:23 |
|
Don’t forget the really cool Dynamaxion House, in fact do a write up on that level of insanity.
|
PatBateman
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 12:25 |
|
Gracias for the clarification.
|
SteveLehto
> My X-type is too a real Jaguar
07/11/2015 at 12:29 |
|
I saw it and all I could think of was “Look at all the beautiful aluminum!”
Ronnie Schreiber
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 12:41 |
|
Steve, isn’t the Goldenrod hard to photograph? It’s so long (about as long as the big steam locomotives on the other side of that backdrop), it’s up against that scrim, and the lighting in the HFM isn’t exactly Cobo Hall during the NAIAS. This is the best I’ve been able to do.
|
SteveLehto
> Ronnie Schreiber
07/11/2015 at 12:47 |
|
Yes! And in your case, you had to have the fence in the way. I played around with different angles but the lighting in that place IS bad.
Still, the collection is amazing.
|
Ronnie Schreiber
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 12:51 |
|
Steve, FCA brought one of the to Chrysler owned Turbine cars to the Eyes on Design show a couple of weeks ago and I was able to get video of it whooshing along on Edsel Ford’s long driveway (sorry for the shaky camerawork):
|
SteveLehto
> Ronnie Schreiber
07/11/2015 at 12:56 |
|
Very cool. Thanks.
|
Ronnie Schreiber
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 12:57 |
|
The Ford Museum and Greenfield Village complex is one of my favorite places in the world. I’m not a professional photographer but I figure really good shots of the cars there need supplemental lighting. I just use a tripod, shut off the flash and let the cameras (3D rig) autoexpose. That usually gets a decent exposure of the car, even if lighting in the background gets washed out. Museums in general are crappy places to take photographs. They usually have dim lighting to protect the artifacts. I think the worst is the Studebaker museum in South Bend.
Maxaxle
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 13:01 |
|
inb4 someone uses a scale model of this as a dildo
|
Inferi
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 13:06 |
|
I would imagine an undertaking of this kind would’ve involved Tom Hoover. He KNEW how to tune a hemi. RIP Tom!
dapper_otter
> PatBateman
07/11/2015 at 14:00 |
|
The Henry Ford is an automotive/transportation/American history museum, not a Ford museum. Also, Ford has made many engines with hemispherical heads and I’m pretty sure they did it before Chrysler latched onto it. Chrysler only owns the name “Hemi”, not the technology behind it.
Le Monstre
> AM
07/11/2015 at 14:01 |
|
I swear, if I win the lottery, that will be on the top 5 things to do right there, but I’m sure they have some room for more power....meh, didn’t sound that good, I’ll let this gentleman say it.
|
427zeo6
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 15:55 |
|
What is trully amazing is how long the record stood. The Summers Brothers were some great craftsman, best cam gear drives and axle components back in their day. Those Hemis were early 426 motors and not know for their quality of castings or strength. American ingeuity at its finest exhibited right there for many years it was displayed in the building their business was located in.
Arch
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 16:26 |
|
The Henry Ford rocks. Every gearhead should strive to visit.
Jugstopper
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 19:34 |
|
“Hi Bob!” (takes a drink - you might have to be an oldster to remember this drinking game)
|
SteveLehto
> Jugstopper
07/11/2015 at 19:40 |
|
Remember it well.
Thanks!
|
GhostZ
> SteveLehto
07/11/2015 at 19:49 |
|
I guess what I mean is that what they consider stock back then, and what they consider stock now, are sort of different things.
Nowadays we wouldn’t consider an ECU tune and modified exhaust to be “stock” but back then taking a 400HP Hemi and giving it massive carbs and exhaust and a new cam is still “stock” because it uses the same block and rotating assembly.
Production Hemis were toned down to around 450HP at the crank, but 600-800 was just a matter of intake/carb, exhaust, and cam, really.
|
GhostZ
> Quadradeuce
07/11/2015 at 19:51 |
|
From the showroom? No. With a few extra parts? Very easily. Nascar stock cars that used “Stock” hemi engines put out probably over 600HP.
Jim
> GhostZ
07/11/2015 at 22:28 |
|
Remember this was cutting edge tech then. No visulations, no computer rendering, no computerized controls, no sensors to show what is happening. Just the feel of the exhaust, the look of the top of the engine as the torque starts to pull, the lower back and the rumbling of the engine to judge the effect of the tuning just done. Damn, the 60’s and the 70’s were fun. And yes, there were 7’s/8’s / and 9’s all over the country then, and no cheating at the count either.
InfiniteDemonMachine
> cbckly962
07/11/2015 at 23:03 |
|
So sorry it’s poking through the storage containers.
|
InfiniteDemonMachine
> Maxaxle
07/11/2015 at 23:04 |
|
Which is also powered by a tiny hemi.
|
GhostZ
> Jim
07/11/2015 at 23:08 |
|
It wasn’t until the 70s that top fuel cars even broke into the 6s, so I can’t imagine many production cars hitting 7s in the 60s. According to the NHRA records here: http://www.printcentralandsigns.com/NHRA/records.h… It wasn’t until 1964 that anyone broke into the 7s.
10s and 9s I can definitely believe for a street driven car back then, especially if a nitromethane reservoir was involved. 8s or 9s for something that was only driven at the drag strip, and leave the 7s for the extreme professionals.
That being said, the math behind a high performance engine is the same then as it is now, we just have better sensors and materials (titanium, magnesium, aluminum) to build out of.
Birddog
> SteveLehto
07/12/2015 at 00:51 |
|
I really need to pay more attention. I missed this earlier! Though I did have to listen to some NPR. Prarie Home and Wait, Wait Don’t tell me were on.
I still think there’s room for Lehto on NPR. I have a face for Radio, I’ll help!
Fuel_of_Satan
> SteveLehto
07/12/2015 at 05:13 |
|
Honestly I’m not so sure it was. When restored to original spec that’s about the power they have, perhaps a little more due to better adjustments on the dyno (Like Bman’s 433hp figure) whereas Chrysler did nothing of the sort and just adjusted until it ran and get it out the gate.
425 hp is probably quite realistic on these in stock form, but being a detuned racing engine they do of course have the capability for much, much, more. Like many engines of the time there may well be some obvious bottlenecks which when removed or replaced will bump the power significantly.
|
Fuel_of_Satan
> Jim
07/12/2015 at 05:17 |
|
Or they could use a dyno to get the adjustments right.
|
Fuel_of_Satan
> PatBateman
07/12/2015 at 05:19 |
|
Because it’s the
Henry Ford
Museum, not the Ford Motor Company Historical Collection.
DKos
> SteveLehto
07/12/2015 at 12:04 |
|
Earlier this year at the “Engines Exposed” exhibit.
|
SteveLehto
> DKos
07/12/2015 at 12:28 |
|
Now, THAT is cool.
Thanks for posting!
Whitesmoke
> SteveLehto
07/13/2015 at 03:51 |
|
Great read Steve, but you are losing your touch, somehow. Nary a one of the commenters has told you to go F yourself (yet). But there’s still time...have faith.
|
SteveLehto
> Whitesmoke
07/13/2015 at 06:58 |
|
But they are still doing that on the piece that was put up on FRI. The trolls never sleep . . .
valis86
> SteveLehto
07/13/2015 at 08:25 |
|
Met one of those guys back in the day. Gary Gabelich worked for my pop back in the 70’s, got to meet all sorts of weird gearheads. Made the trip to Bonneville a few times, wonder where I got my love of speed from.
|
Britt
> SteveLehto
07/15/2015 at 09:38 |
|
rejetting carbs works. My buddy with a 1973 Capri would put in bigger jets in the primary (2 barrel carb, primary and secondary) and suddenly his gas mileage would go down a lot and his HP would go up about 10-14 hp... just enough to notice it in the seat of your pants and cut a few 10ths of a second off his times... Why did he bother with a 1973 Capri? I will never know. he just did and we were all young once.
|
Britt
> 93Miata
07/15/2015 at 09:39 |
|
also recall cars used to weigh a lot less too.... My 1969 Charger weighed in at just over 3400 pounds... and did low 13's 'stock', low 11's when I was done massaging it.
Skamanda
> SteveLehto
07/16/2015 at 10:23 |
|
Considering most of the turbine powered land speed record cars these days look like (or are) repurposed jet fighters, I really like the look of this cockpit. Very sleek, very creative. Looks more like a spaceship than a ground vehicle.