Why fullsize SUV's need to die

"LJ909" (lj909) 05/24/2015 at 04:06 • Filed to: None

5

100

I was at the gas station last night, and at the pump next to me was a Suburban. I had my mom with me and she went inside to pay and the guy went behind her. I don’t know how much he put, but he must’ve filled up because that damn thing was sitting there for awhile. Like minutes. Mind you gas here in California is in many places a few cents from 4 bucks a gallon. And that’s when it came to me: that the time of the full size suv (and maybe fullsize crossovers in general) need to go the way of the dinosaur.

Now many have said this before, that these huge behemoths have no place on our roads anymore, but it seems more appropriate now that they need to go away.

As we all know, SUVS came about in the early 90’s with Ford (although this is disputed) basically creating the segment with runaway success with the first gen Explorer. From then on Suvs have gotten more luxurious and bigger over time. The sudden rise in popularity was due in large part because of cheap gas though out the 90’s.

One would think that the start of seeing that high gas prices were here to stay in late 2008 with gas reaching almost 5 and in some places about 5 a gallon would have hit home and had the automakers do away with fullsize Suv’s. GM only got part of the memo by doing away with Hummer. But they still have a full stable of large Suvs and crossovers for consumers. But IMO this “reset” of sorts only made the problem worse.

Suv, crossover and large truck sales have never been higher. Now some of you are going to say” they are catering to a demand in the market and it works for them so let them keep making them if they will come”. Yes that may be true but its bigger than just sales. These vehicles need to go away. Gas isn’t getting any cheaper and the automakers seem to try to hold on to this market as long as they can. Instead of getting rid of them, they’ve just made the engines in them smaller.

Take for instance, the basically-the-same-vehicle-since-2005 2015 Lincoln Navigator/Ford Expedition. These things are huge. There’s no reason a turbo V6 should be moving one of these around, especially in long wheel base trim. An older gentleman at my church got one of these a few weeks ago. He told me hes been averaging just over 18 mpg and that’s being light on the pedal. That makes no sense to me why Ford and other automakers are downsizing engines from 8 to 6 and 4 in vehicles that are weighing over 4000 lbs instead of just doing away with the vehicles entirely.

Many of you may not agree with what I’ve said here, but this is just what I think looking at how the world is today. And with the sudden shit on being green and efficiency getting rid of suvs seems logical, but that’s just me. I would love to see what you guys think about this.

Update: ( Alot of people are just reading my article and not really thinking about it. And some people think because Im from California im pushing some kind of energy efficient issue. I could care less about efficiency. I had a Jag S Type R if some of you can remember. Of course for the people that have large families and need to tow/haul stuff large SUV’s work for them and are needed. I was mainly talking about people that buy these things and dont do anything close to that. They just use them as a daily driver instead of buying a large luxury sedan or something. This isnt a troll post and If i had a large family I would probably get a Yukon or something. Just my opinion on a segment that is either going to have to drastically change or go away.

SlickMcRick > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:28

14

There’s a market for them so why not continue building them? Also what are larger families supposed to drive around in? Not everyone wants a minivan. Getting rid of both SUVs AND crossovers leaves an entire market unfulfilled and that’s just bad business.

Also not every state is trying to go all green like CA. Gas over here on the East coast and more specifically Maryland is still pretty cheap. Premium is still 15-20 cents below $3 on average.

The biggest complaint about SUVs are fuel efficiency so downsizing engines and making them more efficient solves their main issue.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:32

9

By focusing solely on a negative you’re leaving out the positives of them. Also, 18 mpg in something large is amazing, speaking how just 6 years ago you’d be lucky to be getting that with a tailwind going downhill off throttle.

CRider > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:39

8

Ford sold over 200k Explorers/40K Expeditions in the US alone last year. Jeep sold almost 200k Grand Cherokees. Why would these companies not want all this money from these extremely high profit margin trucks? Just go drive your Prius and stop worrying about other’s fuel bill.

Berang > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:42

5

SUVs basically exist so automakers can cheat consumers who think “BIG GOOD!!11”. Gas goes up 75 cents and they think “maybe me am dumb” gas goes down 5 cents and they think “me buy moar SUV nao!!!11”.

Around here SUVs are already dying off, which is great. I did see a Ford Excursion a few weeks ago - thankfully the height of SUV madness is over now. May it never return.

Hoccy > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:43

0

I can’t think of any situation where these cars are truly needed. Based on pure functionality, there’s nothing a van can’t do better. You can carry more people, get better mileage and they’re cheaper to buy.

They are cooler than (mini)vans though, I’ll give them that. That’s probably the reason why they’re still in the market.

Axial > SlickMcRick 05/24/2015 at 04:44

3

For future arguments, the existence of a market does not necessarily mean that particular market should be served. Business needs are only one part of the system, the system that we call the world.

Birddog > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:45

11

“California”

Kinda stopped reading there.

You have a right to your opinion. Even if it’s wrong.

promoted by the color red > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:45

2

They might be downsizing the number of cylinders, but the engine’s producing just as much, if not more, horsepower with better efficiency. I’m no fan of these behemoths riding my ass at 80+ or running me into a line of parked cars because the driver’s too busy trying to call/text, but credit where credit’s due, the carmakers have found ways to make them less...terrible.

SlickMcRick > Axial 05/24/2015 at 04:50

1

When the existence of a particular market makes up large shares then thinking with a business mindset that need should be fulfilled. Especially in the automotive industry. Money talks, that’s just how the cookie crumbles. Large SUVs and crossovers print money for these companies due to their mark up. It’s smart business. For the issue at hand they’d be fools not to capitalize.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 04:52

2

I’ve never heard someone claim the Explorer was the first. The term was even around before the Explorer existed. the Cherokee, Bronco II and S-15 Jimmy were all called Sport Utilities before the Explorer came out.

Hoccy > Birddog 05/24/2015 at 04:55

1

There’s no right or wrong in this case though. Just a matter of how we’re going to use our resources, and how quickly we’re using them.

CRider > Hoccy 05/24/2015 at 05:12

0

Not everyone likes driving around getting their leg toasted by the engine that’s sitting between you and the passenger seat. Also, vans with equivalent capabilities also get shitty gas mileage.

Axial > SlickMcRick 05/24/2015 at 05:13

4

But I’m not thinking with a strictly business mindset. Nobody should.

For example, the manufacture of new cars in general is demanded by the market, but it’s positively awful for the world at large because it’s diverting resources toward a largely redundant purpose, never mind the ecological effects. Hell, autonomous cars populating highways is a deranged dream by lunatics in Silicon Valley; the resources to serve a single individual his pod-car are grotesque compared to a proper high-speed rail system.

Berang > SlickMcRick 05/24/2015 at 05:26

0

Let’s think of it this way. Somebody finds out they can sell poop ice cream. And it turns out this makes a lot of money (well at least for a while anyway). They’re still selling poop ice cream, no matter how much money they make. That’s not good. It’s still poop ice cream. Smart business aside - poop ice cream is poop ice cream.

Hoccy > CRider 05/24/2015 at 05:27

2

I wasn’t thinking about an American van that dates back to the 70’s. In modern vans you don’t notice the engine more than in a SUV, and one with a decent diesel engine and AWD (Like the Mercedes V-class) can reach 30-40 MPG.

I get that you won’t get such cars in your market without strong incentives, but it’s out there. It’s the reason why full size SUV’s only sell in North America.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 05:32

0

Don’t they have the cylinder shut down feature? A good diesel makes more sense.

Killing-Machine > Berang 05/24/2015 at 05:58

0

Under the premise of what is best for everyone, there should be a form you fill out when you go to purchase a full size truck, you need to prove you need a full size truck and a Tacoma just will not do, this should be federally enforceable and there should be a huge monetary penalty every year that someone does not use the truck in the correct manner. They are equally equivalent to full size suv in gas mileage, yet I go to baseball practice and see all the full size trucks lined up without a spec of dust in the bed, some guys have never tied anything down. Also lets limit the size of hiw large a house people can buy, if one family can live in 1200 sqft then everyone can.

Do What Now? > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 06:07

15

You have a picture of a Suburban, a truck that’s been around since the 30s, and then go on to say that “Ford Started the SUV thing back in the 90s”.

What’s a Wagoneer? What’s a Bronco? What’s a Land Rover? A Blazer, A Cherokee, a CJ, a Scout, etc?

Jesus fucking christ kid, just stop posting.

Berang > Killing-Machine 05/24/2015 at 06:07

1

Not sure what this has to do with making poop ice creams.

Killing-Machine > Berang 05/24/2015 at 06:08

0

May have replied to the wrong person, but I think my dogs eat poop ice cream in the winter

Do What Now? > CRider 05/24/2015 at 06:11

11

Dude, it’s worse. He drives a fucking Chevy Sonic. Just point, laugh, and go about your day.

Bytemite > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 06:24

2

I get you completely.

This nonsense has to stop. There is a reason why everyone in Europe thinks America is full of idiots. Driving these SUVS and crossovers just to get yourself to work and back makes no sense. People my age, early 20s, are buying crossovers as their first car...Why? Because apparently more interior room, higher ride height is all that matters in a car. Also, in their minds bigger = safer.

All those traits of the crossover/suv may have some merit. Higher ride height apparently gives you a term the automakers call “a commanding position”. Yeah, it may have let you see past the car in front of u back in the 1990s, but not when everyone is driving the same skyscrapers you are. What’s next? Even taller, bigger vehicles to have an even more “commanding position”?

When does it end? When your car can’t fit through the garage no more? You see the cars today and try to fit two in a two-car garage. It’s damn near impossible. Two-car garages were built to fit two normal sized cars comfortably, not to have you jam them in there and barely creak your door open enough to get out.

It is a free country, people can do whatever the hell they want. But to drive an SUV/crossover/truck when you obviously don’t need it only announces to everyone out there that you are apathetic to the environment and other people around you.

Let’s not forget that although you may be safer in your 5,000 lb gas-guzzler, you become more of a liability to the other drivers out there that chose to drive a car that fits their needs.

LongbowMkII > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 06:37

9

I guess I need to get rid of my murano... and swap a 4.3 V6 into the Impala. God forbid I dream of taking out my Dad’s old big block nova. It’d just be SOOOO WASTEFUL.

This is why people hate California.

Berang > Do What Now? 05/24/2015 at 06:54

1

I have a feeling they’re talking about which vehicle spurred the current trend. Not which vehicle may have been the very first SUV.

Land Rovers, Scouts, Jeeps, etc. were niche vehicles marketed for particular things to particular market segments. The current SUV trend is to sell big boxy cars to people who don’t know much about cars for use as cars. In that sense the Explorer arguably was the trend setter.

AM > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 06:55

4

Guess I better get rid of my Yukon because it’s so big and wasteful. Just because you don’t want to pay the $100 gas bill doesn’t mean others don’t want to either. And Explorer started the SUVs? You should do some research, SUVs were a thing long before the Explorer came around. I knew I should have stopped reading at California.

Yet another whiny Californian..

Do What Now? > Berang 05/24/2015 at 06:56

0

Even if we’re going by that Metric, the Wagoneer and Cherokee predated it by a good decade as the Yuppie cruiser SUV.

LongbowMkII > Hoccy 05/24/2015 at 06:58

7

People living in a desert chastising others on resource management.

Rich.

Bytemite > LongbowMkII 05/24/2015 at 07:40

0

SoCal yes. And we NorCal people love making fun of them too for living in a desert.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 07:45

5

And just how exactly am I supposed to tow my Audi to the track without a fullsize truck of some description? Depending upon trailer selection, it could even require an HD pickup.

Just because *YOU* don’t see a need for a certain vehicle, does not imply that a reason does not exist.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Bytemite 05/24/2015 at 08:02

1

But they get their revenge via Sacramento and the EPA.

Can’t support CA agriculture while there is the possibility of a fish that may be there not getting enough water.

Sacramento digs themselves and the rest of CA into giant holes. Perhaps you should help the loons in Sac stop digging.

JR1 > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 08:02

6

You’re entitled to your opinion but I don’t agree with you. I’ve been in SUV’s all my life and I intend to have one as a family car. We use it tow, hall lumbar in the spacious rear luggage compartments, take it off road, and do need a good 4x4 system during the winter.

Do people need the large SUV’s in the city? No but they have the rights to buy what they want. If you are worried about the enviromental foot print let engineers solve those problems.

Sam > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 08:23

1

If everything that uses a lot of gas needs to go away, I guess I can’t have my E34 wagon anymore (15mpg), or my 924 (7-12mpg). Guess I should switch to a more fuel-efficient full-size SUV (16mpg). :(

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 08:25

2

I got nothing...

deekster_caddy > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 08:27

1

Large SUVs like Suburbans have their place. The problem is not that they exist, it’s that people buy them just because. They are very utilitarian which makes them awesome. Now they are very luxurious which makes them a status symbol and it sucks for the people who make proper use of a large SUV because they are priced to the stratosphere.

I have had full size trucks for pretty much all my driving life, but they would often sit to the side while I used a commuter car or something fun to get around. A few years ago I sold my car and full size van and bought a 3/4 ton Yukon XL. It got a mighty sucky 12 MPG when I was nice to it, but it also moves apartments and furniture, pulls my car trailer without a problem, carries 8 passengers (which we did, although not that often). The thing about it was that it was more fuel efficient to break the passengers up into two cars than take the truck...

So after I got my ‘73 Buick running well I decided to sell the Yukon and get something more efficient. The ‘73 Buick can tow my car trailer with ease and has a large utilitarian trunk, but spends most of it’s time in the garage. My daily/commuter car gets 100 MPG instead of 12. I’m happy!

I sold the Yukon to my dad, who pulls a 26’ travel trailer with it. I drove that from northern Michigan to Florida a couple years ago and it’s the right truck for the job. The back was full, the trailer was loaded up (it’s their primary residence), and it was a tough job to haul all that stuff through the mountains. Yes, it drinks fuel at a thirsty rate, but it’s the right machine for the job. He would not be better served by an HD pickup.

deekster_caddy > Hoccy 05/24/2015 at 08:29

4

People who tow need something with a full frame. A pickup truck is not always the answer, sometimes they have families to bring along.

jdmrookie > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 08:29

0

An environment tax could help. I don’t think it would curb the presence of these full-size SUV’s because the price-range/demographic they cater too is on the more expensive side. But it could go toward an environmental fund for promoting/investing in sustainable energy.

deekster_caddy > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 08:37

4

Pre Explorer popular SUVs:

Chevy Blazer/Suburban

Ford Bronco

Jeep Grand Cherokee

Dodge Ramcharger

(pics are of my own trucks)

DougNuts > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 08:44

2

You never really supported your opinion about why they need to go away. Just because you don’t like them and you can’t afford to fill one up, while maybe factual, doesn't make them aren’t supporting facts.

JR1 > Killing-Machine 05/24/2015 at 08:51

2

People should have the freedom to choice what they want to buy and how they want to use it. The last thing his nation needs is more bureaucracy.

JR1 > Bytemite 05/24/2015 at 09:01

5

I have driven SUV’s and been raisedon SUV’s. I also hunt, recycle, donate to my local arboretum, and guess what care about the environment.

If you don't like an SUV fine I get that but don't just assume the drivers are apathetic to the environment because you're wrong.

JR1 > Sam 05/24/2015 at 09:05

1

A 924 gets 7-12mpg? It's a four cylinder!

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 09:33

1

Brilliant post. I wish they would outlaw them here as well.

I saw you bought your new Sonic back in February, after posting up extensive research on all the choices you have. Here in Dictatormanstan Sonics have been outlawed, along with every other personal internal combustion drive vehicle. A few years ago Dear Leader decided to sweep them all up and force us to ride around in public buses, you would know them as Suburbans, as the Transportation Bureau calculated that the people miles per gallon is much more efficient that way than with individually owned cars; like Sonics. And who really needs to go where they want to go rather than where the government thinks they should go?

Anyway, enjoy your beautiful new Sonic and your freedom. It kind of sucks when someone else is making decisions for you and limits your choices. I’m so jealous.

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > deekster_caddy 05/24/2015 at 09:34

0

wtf is up with the mirror mount on the dodge?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 09:45

4

I’d like to see you try to tow a large camper and move 7 people at the same time in a Minivan. They just don’t have the ability to do that like a BOF SUV does.

Also, given my 3.2L I6 sedan that weighs 3,300 pounds averages 19 MPG, 18 from an EcoBoost powered (which isn’t actually that economical) SUV that weighs nearly 6,000 pounds is really good. Let’s not forget to mention that GMs newest fleet of SUV have cylinder deactivation that gets them to push well over 20 MPG highway. Then there’s Chryslers EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee which is incredibly efficient.

Then let’s not forget that most minivans look like potatoes on wheels. SUVs at least have a good, sharp look to them.

And don’t even get me started on why trucks are needed. Look at any given job site and hopefully you’ll figure that one out.

LongbowMkII > Hoccy 05/24/2015 at 09:46

5

Based on pure functionality 90% of cars should be single seaters.

BorkBorkBjork > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 09:48

2

I love my Tahoe, and the breed itself will never die and for a very good reason:

Capability.

Other than Fuel Economy, name one thing these vehicles are objectively bad at? Nothing. Some people (actually, lots of people) are willing to pay a premium at the pump and on the dealer floor to get a vehicle that can do more.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Hoccy 05/24/2015 at 09:54

2

Say you go camping a lot, have a boat, and maybe a track car to trailer around. Now say there are more than 4 people in the family. Suddenly something like a suburban doesn’t seem so ridiculous. Get one full size suv instead of a pickup and a minivan

desertdog5051 > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 10:03

0

ZZZZZZZZZZZ...

SlickMcRick > JR1 05/24/2015 at 10:05

0

What gets me is the OP wants to do away with SUVs AND Full size crossovers. That makes zero sense. Crossovers are much more efficient and do most things SUVs do.

I can see if he was at least suggesting crossovers instead but nope. This is a nicely written article without any common sense applied. Unfortunate.

JR1 > SlickMcRick 05/24/2015 at 10:07

0

Yeah and crossovers actually get pretty decent gas mileage

Captain of the Enterprise > Bytemite 05/24/2015 at 10:15

2

Towing a trailer cross country with more than 5 people, a 2500 suburban will tow a hell of a lot more than a van

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 05/24/2015 at 10:20

1

GM trucks do.

Viggen > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 10:27

1

No. I’ve spend countless summers going to the beach with my family in my uncle’s Suburbans. You try fitting nine people and beach gear in something else. Oh he towed with it too. Now granted he no longer has them, it’s not because of gas mileage. It’s because the capability was no longer needed, with everyone going off to college.

Jeeper1 > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 10:34

2

SUVs were started by Ford in the 90s? I think you need to check yo histories, son.

fhrblig > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 10:41

5

“I don’t need one, therefore no one else should have one.”

That’s not a good way to look at things.

Zohaibman72 > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 11:23

2

This is absurd. Some people with big families need these kind of vehicles, there is a very small market for 7 seaters than can actually seat 7 human beings. Some crossovers like the Nissan Rogue and Santa Fe can come with third row seating, but only toddlers can really fit in them.

Yes, you can always say “just buy a minivan” but what if somebody wants more luxury features, or doesn’t like the look of minivans. I’m pretty sure Oppo and Jalopnik can agree, if you don’t like what your buying, why buy it.

I’d rather have a Suburban over a Caravan any day. Also another thing, there are very few minivans even in the market.

And with the gas mileage thing, TONS of sports cars, specially high power sedans like AMG models, M models and so on get worse gas mileage than SUVs, does that mean they should go too? Especially older classic vehicles like Muscle Cars, which are awful on gas. They should also go?

CammedCTSV > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 11:39

4

This is the most ignorant post I have read on Oppo.

Congratulations LJ!

dogisbadob > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 11:59

1

ooo only 20c between regular and premium. On the east coast it’s more like 30-50c difference!

dogisbadob > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 12:04

0

The real problem is that they displace the awesome wagons in the US. I wouldn’t mind them as much if they were offered in addition to the wagons. The only third-seat cars still sold here are the Tesla S and E-class wagon. (the awesome R-class isn’t sold domestically anymore, but they’re still made in Alabama for export)

And fuck them for killing off the barn doors and diesel engine! A diesel-6 would work well in these monsters.

Alfalfa Romeo > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 12:09

1

Out here in Utah, there are plenty of people who have a need for them.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 12:16

1

I don’t think fullsize SUVs should die... they just need to be given a bit of a rest.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 12:42

1

Looking at your posting hstory, all I can say iss , “hot take, brah.”

E92M3 > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 12:45

0

We just rented the exact Suburban pictured to drive to FL. I booked a Tahoe first. You know how much room is left after the 3rd row is up in that? Enough for 2 book bags. So we HAD to get the Suburban. There was 7 of us (5 adults and 2 kids). There was zero room left in the cargo area. The other alternatives were to take 2 cars, or spend $2000+ to fly plus taxi fares.

E92M3 > Do What Now? 05/24/2015 at 13:04

0

^This

The SUV has been around forever.

Vracktal > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 13:04

0

Fullsize SUVs are exempt from cafe standards is why.

LJ909 > Do What Now? 05/24/2015 at 13:17

0

Look at the reply by Berang and you will get what I meant. Noticed I said that it was disputed. Ford just started the trend.

LJ909 > LongbowMkII 05/24/2015 at 13:20

0

Notice I said fullsize Suv’s and crossovers. Not car based crossovers like the Murano.

LJ909 > AM 05/24/2015 at 13:22

0

Again, Ford started the trend of Suv’s being big sellers in the US, not the whole Suv segment.

Under_Score > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 13:26

1

Yes, full-sized SUVs have horrible gas mileage and cost a lot of money, but they’re important if you need to tow a boat, horses, etc.

I haven’t been in a new Suburban, but the previous generation had an issue that I don’t think anyone has addressed: interior space. Yes, they can seat seven or eight, with plenty of room behind the third row, but those two rear rows? The second row in them can’t slide, and the front seatbacks are hard, so if you’re tall, and the driver in front of you is tall, good luck. Most people have shorter legs than my dad and I, but if you’re thinking about a Suburban because “it’s roomy”, and you’re tall, steer clear.

LongbowMkII > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 13:30

2

all crossovers are car based. that’s the whole point of the word.

and my murano gets ~18mpg mostly city driving, haven’t done a tank of highway driving to see what it can get, I’d guess <25? Still not great. But apparently it is, in fact, wasteful garbage. I want a Mazda5 anyways, but you’ll need to convince my wife...

I think CAFE standards and the gas guzzler tax need to be applied more stringently to passenger trucks and SUV’s but they don’t need to be banned.

LJ909 > LongbowMkII 05/24/2015 at 13:36

0

Yea that goes without saying. And I wasnt implying banning them, this is America. Im just saying that it doesnt make sense to me to start putting smaller engines in large vehicle bodies. Or get a van. Large suvs just still show America’s excess in cases where people dont actually need them.

LJ909 > CammedCTSV 05/24/2015 at 13:38

2

Just because you don’t agree with what I said doesn’t make it ignorant.

TheHondaBro > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 13:51

1

Wow people here are tearing you a new one. You don’t deserve all this hate.

LJ909 > TheHondaBro 05/24/2015 at 13:53

0

Thats because they are taking my article for something that its not.

BrownMiataDieselWagon > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 13:54

0

Are you Greenpeace?

TheHondaBro > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 13:57

0

That’s Oppositelock for you.

LJ909 > BrownMiataDieselWagon 05/24/2015 at 13:59

0

And what makes you say that?

LongbowMkII > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 14:01

2

I don’t get your argument, big gas guzzling SUV’s are bad, but making them as efficient as last decade’s mid size crossovers is senseless? Excess is basically the American way, many people WILL buy the biggest car they can afford. I mean apparently you bought a Sonic rather than a Spark... wasteful.

LJ909 > LongbowMkII 05/24/2015 at 14:11

0

Putting a smaller engine in a big ass body and having it not be any more efficient than when it had the bigger engine is senseless. They may be more efficient than they were 10-15 years ago but it still comes out the same once you factor in today’s fuel costs. Like I said, large suvs work for people with large families and people that need to tow etc. Other than that they can take a sideline.

AM > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 14:20

1

False. The Jeep Cherokee started the SUV trend.

The XJ’ spawned competitors - notably the Ford Explorer - as other automakers began to notice that the XJ model began replacing regular cars.

Like I said, do some research first.

handsoff > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 14:22

0

My disagreements with your argument aside, I’m surprised they’re still a thing. In our (very) rural (very) small town, there are an ever-increasing number of brand-new or almost-new Escalades, Navigators, loaded up Tahoes, and the like. They can’t ALL be drug runners, so who is leveraging themselves to the moon for a $50k+ SUV? And why do that? (very) small town, there are an ever-increasing number of brand-new or almost-new Escalades, Navigators, loaded up Tahoes, and the like. They can’t ALL be drug runners, so who is leveraging themselves to the moon for a $50k+ SUV? And why do that?

That said, I may soon swap one of our paid-for pickups for a paid-for Tahoe or maybe a 2500 Suburban. We often go on trips with my brother and his wife, so we could take all 4 of us, our 3 dogs, tow our camper or motorcycles, and only pay for fuel for one (beastly) vehicle.

handsoff > handsoff 05/24/2015 at 14:23

0

Ooh ooh, and with the SUV utility we could swap my wife's Rav for something a little more fun to drive. Speed3 maybe

LJ909 > handsoff 05/24/2015 at 14:27

0

Thats my point. See you have a need for a SUV of that size. Most people from my experience don’t. You cant believe how many people would get mad at me back when I was a salesman when I tried to get a family of 3 (a guy his wife and their kid) onto a Terrain instead of a Yukon. Most people don’t need that much room and dont do half the things these things should be used for. Like Ive said to other people, I dont think they should be banned or go away, people just need to really think about their buying choices.

Milky > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 14:43

2

Once gas prices go back up over $4 nation wide we’ll see a swing in truck buying the other way. I get your point, I once filled my moms truck up and the pump stopped at $99 … I had to reinsert the card to finish filling it up. I didn’t know that was a thing.

However in capitalist america, if you have money and want something it doesnt matter. People still want SUVs just as much as they want green grass on golf courses in socal.

Xyl0c41n3 > Do What Now? 05/24/2015 at 15:14

1

Or maybe don’t be a dick? Y’know... Oppo’s first and second rules?

Hoccy > LongbowMkII 05/24/2015 at 16:03

0

That is very true.

In areas with decent public transport systems, most people don’t need a daily driver either. It’s just that some people think it’s their right to drive a car to work every day.

Hoccy > deekster_caddy 05/24/2015 at 16:11

0

That’s more due to the towing regulations in the US than anything else, and it has been explained in detail here before (not by me). I can totally understand it too when it comes to towing in work, but not when it comes to the occassional caravan or small boat. Then a van or a smaller SUV/car is just as capable and safe. Even small motorsport teams use vans here.

Hoccy > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 05/24/2015 at 16:12

0

My reply to deekster_caddy further up there pretty much applies to you as well.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > CRider 05/24/2015 at 16:21

1

The vans with equivalent capability are also truck based. Currently the only one that fits the bill is the Chevy Express / GMC Savana, in which GM will gladly stuff a Duramax in the engine compartment.

Max towing is up to 10,000lbs on the Express/Savana. Ford Transit tops out at 7600 in one very specific configuration ( Transit 250, MWB, Low Roof Van, 3.2L diesel )

SlickMcRick > dogisbadob 05/24/2015 at 16:41

1

Ford Flex. All 3 rows can accommodate adults.

dogisbadob > SlickMcRick 05/24/2015 at 17:29

0

Nope, too tall, not a wagon :(

And fuck the jealous dealers that would rather sell the Flex than the 7-passenger C-Max minivan (Ford was very close to bringing it over here, but the dealers threw a hissy fit)

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Hoccy 05/24/2015 at 18:26

0

Yea except most full size vans capable of towing anything significant are not really sold as family hauler type vehicles, they are mostly geared towards contractors and such. We also have an obsession with enormous campers I wouldn’t be confortable towing with a smaller suv

SlickMcRick > dogisbadob 05/24/2015 at 18:48

1

It’s taller than the R-Class be a simple 2.5in. So the Benz isn’t so short either.

dogisbadob > SlickMcRick 05/24/2015 at 19:48

0

Yeah, but the R-class is more awesome, plus the diesel and R63 versions. There’s no Flex ST :(

boxrocket > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 20:33

0

What do you recommend instead? A full-length Transit?

BloodlessWeevil > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 20:47

1

So if it’s not about efficiency, you’re just a busybody who can’t stand that someone made different compromises than you when making their vehicle choice. Modern “luxury sedans” are just sports cars with leather. Trucks and SUVs are the luxury vehicles of our generation. My opinion is laid out in more detail here:

http://uppermidwest.kinja.com/why-are-trucks…

SlickMcRick > dogisbadob 05/24/2015 at 21:18

1

There’s an Ecoboost version and it’s capable of getting it from 0-60 in 6s flat. I’d say that is rather impressive especially for a 8 person vehicle. Oh the Ecoboost is also AWD so there’s that too. Gets off the line in a hurry and is a capable vehicle in inclement conditions.

Maidee > LJ909 05/24/2015 at 21:24

0

As a fellow Californian, I understand what you mean even though my parents have a minivan and not an suv. I see what you mean by why buy something bigger than you need. We bought it the van a few years ago for our family of four. My parents wanted the minivan for the extra third row for the once in a blue moon guests. Years later they regret buying the van for the fuel consumption. If only the Venza was out then we wouldn't have a Sienna.

LJ909 > BloodlessWeevil 05/24/2015 at 22:18

0

I can stand it. This is America. People are free to choose. Just from experience, especially when I was a salesman, probably over half of the full size SUVs on the road aren’t needed by the people that got them. They could have gotten a van or a nice large car. But again its just my opinion that’s all.

LJ909 > boxrocket 05/24/2015 at 22:21

0

Hell no. To utilitarian. Just saying if you don’t really need all that size or space don’t do it. Full size SUVs have always been more about show than actually using them as intended. That’s why a guy talks his wife into getting a Suburban to drive him her and their 2 kids instead of an Avalon.