Morning Cruze Musings

"Snuze: Needs another Swede" (markg)
05/21/2015 at 08:22 • Filed to: None

This morning as I was driving in to work, I got thinking, the new Malibu will be debuting with a 1.5L 160HP turbo engine for base models. I started wondering if this was based on 1.4L turbo that’s in my Cruze, and with a new Cruze coming out soon, would it also be offered in that car?

So I took to the google machine and did a little looking, and it appears no. In fact I can’t even figure out if the 1.4L and 1.5L are in the same engine family, yet. But I did find some interesting tidbits - the Cruze will be getting a bump from 140HP to 150HP, which should be nice. I always felt in stock trim it was fine when I was by myself, but when the car was loaded with 4 adults, luggage in the trunk, it struggled. A few extra ponies should ease that.

But what really caught my eye is that GM is planning to offer the next-gen Cruze with a 6 speed manual or a seven speed dual clutch transmission! So I got thinking, has GM ever offered a dual clutch, or any automated manual, on any production cars? As far as I know, they have not, at least not here in the US.

And then that got me to wondering why? I’ve always assumed GM has eschewed the automated manual because of it’s “Hydramatic” legacy. Not only have these transmissions done their job of transmitting power in every GM car since the 50’s, they have found homes within the chassis of some world class marques such as Jaguar, BMW, and Bentley. On top of that, if you go to any drag strip in America, any off-road park, or basically anywhere in motorsport where you can run an automatic trans, and the number of GM automatics will probably exceed the number of all other automatic transmissions combined.

I’ve always thought the automated manual offered a number of advantages to the traditional automatic - engineers have more flexibility in picking ratios, it’s a more simple or at least straightforward design (no more bands and servos and valve bodies... whatever that crap is), it’s somewhat lighter in weight, and offers lower rotational inertia due to a lack of torque converter. So when one of the worlds leader in automatic transmissions throws in the towel and offers a dual clutch sequential, does this mark the beginning of the end for the torque converter?

DISCUSSION (12)

DoYouEvenShift > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/21/2015 at 08:34

Im pretty sure the 1.4 and 1.8 in the current cars are Daewoo motors. No relation to the ecotec

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/21/2015 at 09:01

Seeing what Ford did with the Powershift (mine stick works fine *knocks on wood*) and FCA did with the Getrag dual clutch in Fiats and the Dart, I wish GM luck. Sure, VW got it right, but they spent four or five years working out the kinks in high-profit-margin Audis, where they could afford over-engineer the design until the design was completely understood and bug-proofed.

I think GM would be better served with a traditional automatic who’s torque converter was locked as much as possible, but if they’re willing to put in the work on the front end to design a double clutch automatic right the dual clutch will be a great system.

Jayhawk Jake > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/21/2015 at 09:03

Where did you see they’d offer a dual clutch?

I'm skeptical: they just put an 8 speed torque converter on the Corvette. If GM was going away from torque converters surely the Corvette would too.

Jayhawk Jake > DoYouEvenShift
05/21/2015 at 09:03

They are labeled as Ecotec motors

Snuze: Needs another Swede > DoYouEvenShift
05/21/2015 at 09:07

Actually the 1.4L turbo is “Family 0 Gen III” and the 1.8L is “Family I Gen III”, and are almost completely unrelated engines, and both were developed by Opel.

Ecotec is just a marketing term by GM for their 4 cylinder engine line. Lots of completely unrelated engines have been sold under the Ecotec moniker.

And I just found the info I was looking for - the new 1.4L and 1.5L engines are part of the SGE (Small Gasoline Engines) family, which is again developed by Opel, but not related to the other two.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!)
05/21/2015 at 09:09

Well it makes me wonder if maybe they aren’t outsourcing to Getrag or someone else. They’ve been doing it for years, probably since the 70’s, after they got ride of Muncie. Every GM with a manual now sports a Getrag, ZF, or Tremec.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/21/2015 at 09:16

The thing is, Getrag and Ford jointly developed the Powershift. I think the FCA dual clutch trans is also a Getrag unit as well, so buying off the shelf might not help GM make it a good transmission. Then again, the issue seems to be powertrain integration and calibration more than mechanical failure (defective input shaft seal design on early dry clutch Ford DCTs excepted), and that may be Ford/FCA’s responsibility more than Getrag’s.

*Edit - Looks like I’m wrong on the FCA design - supposedly it’s designed by Fiat. I know there were discussions of Chrysler building Getrag DCTs under license, but that might have changed once Fiat took over.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmis…

DoYouEvenShift > Jayhawk Jake
05/21/2015 at 09:22

The same way an Aveo was labled a Chevy.

DoYouEvenShift > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/21/2015 at 09:24

Im thinking of the 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.5 as the true ecotec engines.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Jayhawk Jake
05/21/2015 at 09:29

Found it on the Wikipedia page for the Cruze. Looked at the reference, it’s a GM sales brochure for the Chinese Cruze. So maybe that’s a China only thing, I don’t know.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > DoYouEvenShift
05/21/2015 at 10:16

I know the ones you’re talking about. I had a Cobalt 2.2L, and it was a great engine. Those engines are based on the “Family II” series developed by Opel, but were significant enough to warrant their own name. So GM named them “Family II”, again. But because this was confusing, they gave them more names - “Global Four Cylinder” (even though all these 4 cylinder families are global), “LGE” (Large Gasoline Engines), and the “L850” engine. Are you confused yet? I know I am.

DoYouEvenShift > Snuze: Needs another Swede
05/21/2015 at 10:32

Thats confusing hehe