How Fast Do You Want To Spend, Part 2

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
05/18/2015 at 23:20 • Filed to: money

In !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , I looked at several forms of low cost motorsport to determine which had the most cost effective price to seat time ratio. Many comments later, enough people had asked about other forms of motorsport that I hadn’t considered, I had enough to write a follow-up article and compare them all.

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To recap, here are the rates I’ve already calculated.

Autocross: $4.44 per minute

Boston Chapter BMW CCA Driving Schools: $2.97 per minute

SCCA Track Night In America: $2.50 per minute

COM Sports Car Club: $2.21 per minute

24 Hours of LeMons: $1.72 per minute (but you need a dedicated track car)

Indoor Karting: $1.88 per minute

Drag Racing: $14.00 per minute

Outdoor Karting – F1 Outdoors Arrive And Drive

Previously, I suggested that indoor karting is the most cost effective way to get the full racing experience with minimal investment, and with no risk to your own car. But what about outdoor karting? Here the tracks are bigger and the karts are faster and more powerful. You can go whole hog with a shifter kart that’ll accelerate as well as an F1 car, but as before, I’d like to focus on the most accessible ways to get into it.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! offers many different options to get your karting kick in the great outdoors. The easiest way is Arrive and Drive. You can walk in off the street, pay $30, and drive a 15 lap race. The more racing you buy – three or four race packages, joining a league, and more – the more cost effective it becomes, but for simplicity we’ll stick with this option.

I was unable to find any Arrive and Drive results online, but I did find some YouTube video, and determined an average lap time of 26 seconds on this particular course.

26 seconds X 15 laps = 390 seconds / 60 = 6.5 minutes of track time.

$30 / 6.5 minutes = $4.62 per minute.

This is quite a bit more expensive than indoor karting. In fact, the cost and amount of seat time you get are comparable to autocross. However, you don’t have to spend a couple of hours picking up cones for your fellow competitors. You get to race on a track, flat out, wheel to wheel, in someone else’s karts. And the more you race, the more cost effective it becomes, undercutting autocross rather quickly.

Outdoor Karting – Endurance Karting

My very first karting experience was !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ’s Six Hour Classic at Lime Rock Park with some autocross friends from Boston BMW CCA. I showed up with nothing but a helmet, and the next thing I knew I was thrown out there with serious kart racers and Skip Barber instructors, and spun off the track in short order. Nothing like being thrown to the lions! But I learned quickly, and soon I was putting down not blistering fast, but good consistent laps, which is the key to doing well in any endurance race. It was a good time, and a huge amount of seat time for the money. How does the value compare to the sprint race of F1 Outdoors?

Your team may consist of three, four, or five drivers. The cost per driver varies depending on how many are on your team. Let’s assume that all drivers get an equal amount of time on the track.

Three drivers: $561 / 120 minutes = $4.68 per minute.

Four drivers: $421 / 90 minutes = $4.68 per minute.

Five drivers: $337 / 72 minutes = $4.68 per minute.

Pretty clever, eh? You pay for as much seat time as you can afford, but the actual rate remains the same. Endurance Karting clearly did their homework on this. It’s also nearly the same rate as a single Arrive and Drive race at F1 Outdoors.

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A few people asked how the revived !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! events compare to the others I’ve mentioned. Unlike a stage rally, a RallySprint is a one day event, using short stages (limited to three miles) on private property. They are run several times, like a rallycross, and run times are cumulative to determine finishing position. It’s a great way to bridge the gap between dodging cones in a field and full blown stage rally. But how cost effective is it? The first one took place earlier this month, so we can crunch some numbers and answer that question.

Registration for the Team O’Neil RallySprint cost $160 per team, assuming early registration for SCCA members. Looking at the event results, the average total time was about 23 minutes for seven runs on two different stages.

$160 / 23 minutes = $6.96 per minute.

This does NOT take into consideration the fact that a fully prepared rally car was required, as well as personal protective gear for driver and co-driver. Many participants already do stage rally, while others hadn’t yet but have the car and equipment ready to go. Others rented or borrowed the car and equipment from others. This is certainly less expensive than building your own rally car, but it also increases the cost a bit beyond the rate I calculated.

Still, there’s a lot to be said for having the opportunity to see what an actual stage rally must be like, with a co-driver and stage notes and everything. RallySprint is a far less expensive way to get that experience than a full rally.

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Along the same lines as RallySprint, hillclimbs are timed events from the bottom of a mountain to the top. Participants get a few runs per event. It’s a similar thrill as a stage rally, driving flat out on what’s normally a public or private road. But normally, only your fastest single run counts, rather than a cumulative time like rally or RallySprint.

The !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is the primary organizer for these events in New England. Unlike RallySprint, you can enter a completely stock or lightly modified car without a roll cage in their Unprepared or Street Prepared classes. However, these classes also have a break-out time for each mountain at which they compete. If you go faster without safety equipment, you won’t be able to run until you do. So while you can bring your daily driver, consider the risks before choosing to do so.

These break-out times seemed a good average time, since Unprepared cars will be slower and more modified cars will be faster. I arbitrarily used the Mt. Ascutney time of 3:20. The second Ascutney event in 2014 had five runs over two days. The entry fee is $180, comparable to RallySprint.

3:20 X 5 runs = 16.5 minutes.

$180 / 16.5 minutes = $10.91 per minute.

That’s a bit more pricey than RallySprint, but the car preparation requirements are lower, especially for Unprepared cars, so it’s difficult to compare them directly. The Team O’Neil RallySprint provided more seat time for slightly less money, and over the course of one day rather than two, so you’ll also need to add the cost of lodging for at least one night.

But again, that’s still less time and monetary commitment than stage rally. And if you want the full rally experience at a hillclimb, bring a rally prepared car and run in Rally class. You’ll even get to have a co-driver, which isn’t permitted in the other classes.

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And, cue the debate that drifting isn’t racing, or even a real motorsport. It takes excellent car control skills to hold a perfect slide, especially on the racing line, and especially while cutting as close as possible to solid objects without crashing. Therefore, I feel it’s worthy of inclusion here – even more so because there are some very cheap, accessible ways that anyone with a rear wheel drive car can give it a go for the first time.

I recently spectated a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! event at New Hampshire Motor Speedway. This particular event was much closer to autocross than the Tokyo Drift or Ryan Tuerck type of events you see on YouTube. A few small tire walls were set up in one of the back parking lots, and cars were sent out there, one at a time (with some overlap, just like an autocross), to do wild drifts and burn up some tires. I found it extremely entertaining to watch, and there was almost always someone on course to look at.

Preregistration costs $75 per day or $140 for a whole weekend. Cars are split into three run groups by driver experience level. Each group gets four 40 minute sessions per day, with as many runs during each session as time allows. Each run is about a minute long, with one car released every 30 seconds or so. That means there are about 80 runs per session. Let’s assume there are 10 cars in a given run group, which gives you eight runs of one minute each per session.

8 minutes X 8 sessions per weekend = 64 minutes of mad skids.

64 minutes / $140 = $2.19 per minute.

That’s dirt cheap! But it’s not that simple. I haven’t taken the cost of tires into account for the other forms of motorsport I’ve discussed, but due to the nature of drifting annihilating back tires, I can’t ignore that cost here. Still, it’s possible to pick up used tires for cheap. ClubLoose North has a tire machine at the event, so you can swap tires on site at no extra cost.

The other factor to keep in mind is the potential for damage. Small tire walls don’t give way like cones do, so if you bump one, you could damage or rip off a bumper cover. Clearly this wasn’t the first time this 350Z had done it. This could put you in violation of rule #5 under the Body and Glass section of the rules:

5. Car should not look like a bag of dicks.

Seriously, that’s straight out of the rulebook. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Still, driving sideways is a blast and a half. If you’re going to do it, this is definitely the way to go. It’s much cheaper than a more professional drift event, and you can bring practically any car – at least, as long as it doesn’t look like a bag of dicks.

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What? These aren’t even real cars! Well neither are go-karts, yet they, too, can deliver a similar experience to the real thing. I’ve done more than a few laps in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . I loved it when they started me in a Mazda MX-5 Cup at Lime Rock Park. I’ve driven a real Miata at the real Lime Rock Park, so it was an excellent comparison of how close they got it. Well, I’ll tell you – they got it. What I learned from driving the real track worked in the game. They even replicated that bump in the middle of the Downhill that you don’t feel unless you’re going more than 100mph. When I carried too much speed into Big Bend, the force feedback steering wheel began chattering at me. My instincts immediately recognized that as a sign of understeer, and straightened the wheel to recover. Then I realized that my real life reactions were being triggered by the computer – and they worked!

Plus the other cars on the track with you are controlled by other live human beings, not the computer. And you never know who will show up. I once found myself dicing it out with !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in an MX-5 Cup race, and by the quality of his driving skill (and the beautiful pass he made on me) I have no doubt that it was the former Indy Car driver. Sim racing is definitely a viable alternative to the real thing.

An iRacing subscription costs anywhere from $12/month to $179/2 years. New memberships are available at half of these prices, so let’s say you’re a newbie and splurge $89.50 for 2 years, which works out to $3.73/month.

It’s impossible to say how much seat time you’ll get, because that’s entirely up to you. You might do just one or two races a month, or give World of Warcraft addicts a run for their money by racing any chance you get. Assuming you have friends, a life, and so on, let’s arbitrarily say that you do an hour of practice and two half hour races, three nights a week. That’s a reasonable amount for an enthusiast who also has other things to do, like eating, laundry, and reading Jalopnik . That works out to six hours a week, or 24 hours per month.

$3.73 / 24 hours = $0.16 per hour / 60 minutes = $0.003 per minute.

This is, admittedly, a best case pricing scenario, so let’s also calculate this for a full price, $12 one month subscription.

$12.00 / 24 hours = $0.50 per hour / 60 minutes = $0.008 per minute.

Even at full price, it’s less than a penny per minute. In fairness, I should point out that as you progress into higher iRacing license classes and gain access to more and more different series to race in, you will inevitably need to buy additional cars and tracks to proceed. It works like an in-app purchase on your smartphone. But it is a one time expense. Even if you let your account lapse for months and months (as I have at times), those purchases are still available when you return.

No, you don’t get the sensations that you do in a real car or in a kart. That’s certainly the biggest downside to sim racing. But you also don’t need a car or kart to race. There is absolutely no chance you will damage your daily driver. You don’t need to own a car or even have a driver’s license. You do need a half decent computer, and a decent steering wheel/pedal setup, but my five year old desktop still does a pretty good job, though admittedly with the graphics controls turned down a bit in the interest of maintaining a good frame rate. There’s really no cheaper way to go racing.

(Photo credits: Allison Feldhusen, F1 Outdoors, Endurance Karting, Wyatt Knox, Dave Estey, Elana Rabinow, iRacing)

DISCUSSION (94)

Nate Bleker > Justin Hughes
05/19/2015 at 08:08

This is the first I'm hearing of endurance karting. After wetting my toes with a couple of track days, karting for 4 hours sounds amazing. Gotta convince them to come to Texas though.

Bump > Justin Hughes
05/19/2015 at 11:24

4 cylinder enduro dirt track racing. $1,000 should easily get you started, if you know what you are doing I think you can get a Neon/Cavilier/Tercell (LeMons type car) for around $500. The races last 2 hours. If you are lucky a car can last 3-4 races or more.

JKER > Justin Hughes
05/19/2015 at 11:29

Motorcycle racing: $500/minute

SasquatchElvis > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 10:43

Kinja'd!!!

The stewards would like to have a word with you...

472CID > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 10:44

What about dirt track, figure eight, late model stock cars, sprint cars, legends, bombers, enduros, etc?

Keep up the good work.

JD2112 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 10:48

Kinja'd!!!

Ugh! This wing is hideous! Since it’s on a race car I’ll give the owner the benefit of doubt that it is functional but anyone who puts a monstrosity like that on a street car needs to be slapped.

Burner188 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 10:53

If you can’t get hurt it doesn’t count. Comparing an actual moving vehicle, a cart, to SIM racing is ludicrous. A car to a cart is not a cart to SIM racing.

NeonBlaqk > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 10:55

If you want to track drive with a computer and get the sensation as close as possible, play Assetto Corsa using an Occulus Rift. I drove a twin to my car “at Imola” and it was extremely good...for about 5 minutes before it made me motion sick. But if you’re less susceptible to such things, it could be awesome!

rayJoyal > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:01

The only problem with sim racing is once you’ve strapped on a real race car, sim racing just doesn’t compare.

I used to spend hours in racing games but once I went autocrossing and then dirt tracking I pretty much stopped sim racing. It just lacks the sphincter tightening of the real thing.

Dream Theater of the Absurd > SasquatchElvis
05/21/2015 at 11:01

Nah, he’s okay. The curbing is considered part of the racing surface.

PhilKesselRun > Nate Bleker
05/21/2015 at 11:02

DKC may do endurance races, they do lots of other types.

MoparMap > Nate Bleker
05/21/2015 at 11:04

Karting for 4 hours sounds like a rib crushing experience as well, lol. I started sprint karting last year and just one day of racing (probably ~50 laps over the course of the day at 30 seconds a lap) beats you up pretty good for the next few days. A better fitting seat certainly helps and I’m sure rib protectors would make some difference as well, but I don’t have one yet. Your arms and shoulders also get one heck of a workout, which no amount of protection fixes.

Not saying I wouldn’t still do it, but after having back to back race days on a Saturday and Sunday I can say I was certainly glad we didn’t do that on a regular basis.

jtcleary > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:10

The best thing about drifting is you can be as ‘invested’ as you want to be. There are guys with a set of spare wheels and a $2500 car right out there with $20k LS powered 240s all having the same amount of fun. It is what you make it, and at the end of the day we’re all there just to have a laugh. Which is why I love it. Btw did you stick around for Sunday? The weather was much better.

Justin Hughes > 472CID
05/21/2015 at 11:13

Thanks! Would you like to write part 3? ;)

I hoon, therefore I am > Nate Bleker
05/21/2015 at 11:19

Completely agree. Need something like this for the winter months here in AZ.

Justin Hughes > Burner188
05/21/2015 at 11:20

That’s one perspective, and many agree with you. Others claim that the realism has gotten so good that sims deserve to be considered equally. I’m not sure which side I’m on, but I included them here to generate discussion, controversy, flame wars, and so on.

Fortner Industries > JD2112
05/21/2015 at 11:20

You clearly aren’t familiar with hillclimb events, where traction is imperative around the hairpin switchbacks, and the road surface isn’t always paved. Like time attack cars, traction is more important than top speed, thus the huge wings for downforce, often on the front and rear.

Kinja'd!!!

Nimrodical > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:25

I wonder about the other end of the scale, like what’s an hour at Le Mans in a LMP1 or a hour in a F-1 car cost?

Gt3-ted > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:25

Outdoor Kart Raceing is a whole lot of fun but much more physically punishing than indoor karts. Several practice sessions , a qualifying race an then long race will leave you feeling the next day like you have been in an “All Day Airplane Crash”.

Justin Hughes > rayJoyal
05/21/2015 at 11:27

That’s the one thing they haven’t worked out yet, it’s true. But if visual and force feedback inputs can be good enough to evoke the muscle memory I’ve learned from the real thing, I have no doubt that it’s possible. It just hasn’t been done yet.

No, I don’t count those Outrun consoles from the 80s that rocked your seat from side to side in the turns.

Fortner Industries > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:28

For jalops in the Portland, Oregon region, Pat’s Acres in Canby offers endurance karting and drift events on their nationally recognized kart track.

They offer 50mph kart rentals: $40 for 12 minutes (which includes a $12 yearly license and reusable $3 helmet liner) equating to $3.33/min for the first trip.

After the initial costs, the price is $25/12min equating to $2.08/min. They also offer instruction sessions, “bring your own kart” practice sessions, etc.

Justin Hughes > jtcleary
05/21/2015 at 11:30

I couldn’t stay for Sunday, which is unfortunate because I’m sure there was a lot more tire smoke!

But you’re right. Along with those $20k builds, I’m pondering scoring one more OEM wheel (I already have one leftover from my accident last year), slapping on my leftover Prius tires, and creatively converting them to vapor, just for yuks.

472CID > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:31

Kinja'd!!!

Justin Hughes > Gt3-ted
05/21/2015 at 11:34

Sure. Higher speeds equal higher G-forces, which the karts can handle but some occupants may not.

clarkwgriswold001 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:36

For me, sim racing is where it’s at. It’s very cheap to get into (just the computer, game, and peripherals to buy) and, unless you’re using iRacing or one of the other subscription services, there are no recurring costs. Sure, you don’t feel the g-forces or the bumps on the track, but with the right setup your eyes make up for it. With the Oculus Rift and HTC Vive just over the horizon, I think sim racing is going to get way, way more immersive for a really low price to entry (about $300-500 for the headset, plus a decent computer).

There are no tires to buy, no fuel to buy, no body damage to repair, no towing fees, no dedicated track car required, no garage space or tools, and you can race in any weather at any time of day. I still like track days and try to go karting at least a couple times per year, but sim racing is just SOOOOOO much cheaper and more convenient.

ivan256 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:37

Hill climbs are probably the most dangerous of all of these by a long way. They are technically difficult, and are frequently run on roads that were designed for ordinary traffic with little or no additional barriers. And it can be a LONG, tree-filled way down.

I have multiple friends who used their .com era windfalls to participate in New England area hill climb events who are either permanently disabled in some form or no longer with us.

Have fun, but don’t take it lightly.

clarkwgriswold001 > Burner188
05/21/2015 at 11:39

You might be surprised. With a large screen, force feedback wheel (and pedals!), decent shifter, etc., it can be a very immersive experience. And the entire setup costs less than a set of decent wheels and race tires.

Justin Hughes > ivan256
05/21/2015 at 11:40

That doesn't sound like a slam on the safety of NEHA's events. It's just the reality of racing somewhere that was absolutely not designed for racing.

Ham-Ster > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:44

Definitely worth discussing, but I would definitely miss that adrenaline rush of actual fear of death/excitement of doing it for real.

sartogo > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:53

NASA HPDE runs at about $3/minute ($495 for 8 sessions X 20 minutes)

Funny enough NASA TT is much cheaper, as you get much more track time with the Test&Tune sessions (about $2/minute) but obviously you need a little more equipment and car preparation

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Nimrodical
05/21/2015 at 11:53

You can get a few laps in a V8 Spec Lotus F1 car (2012 iirc) for about $4k for a few laps.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Burner188
05/21/2015 at 11:54

You ever do either? iRacing does a pretty great job.

Maxaxle > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 11:56

Kinja'd!!!

TORCS is $0.00, but it’s a lot more basic.

Big Block I-4 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 12:08

I really wanted to do hill-climbs but the PA ones you need a roll cage/bar. Now I have to look into this further. The Miata will eventually have one but not quite yet.

S2Konstantin > NeonBlaqk
05/21/2015 at 12:16

I’ve seen videos of people using a rift with iRacing too and it looked amazing.

ivan256 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 12:37

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that I meant the NEHA. I’m not sure if the events they were participating in were specifically HEHA events or not.

You are absolutely correct. It is simply a reality of that type of racing. It is not a type of racing I would recommend anybody undertake based on the price per unit seat time. You should go into it with serious knowledge, skill, and probably experience in other types of racing. Because if you go off, you’re more likely to die.

ForestRun > ivan256
05/21/2015 at 12:41

I’d say that hill climbs are the most expensive racing events since they have the largest potential (by far) for significant damage to your car and personal health.

I have a friend who does lots of hill climbs (including Pikes Peak). He’s crashed twice over the last 4 years and each time he was lucky to avoid serious injury. In each crash his car collided with a tree and suffered significant damage resulting in thousands in repairs. Like ivan256 said, there’s rarely a protective barrier between your car, the cliff and a whole bunch of trees.

Werkz > NeonBlaqk
05/21/2015 at 12:46

Been there done that, triple screen is much better at this time. Once we see a higher-resolution version, it could become worth it. Even with DK2, the screen door affect was very apparent.

Ladymopar > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 12:50

I clicked on it when I read +How fast do you want to speed!”

Justin Hughes > Ladymopar
05/21/2015 at 12:59

Sorry for the false advertising!

D-man9000 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:00

I love that this is all New England specific...thank you for both of these articles, they’re great!

Ladymopar > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:01

LOL to be honest I just woke up-pretty good article tho.

Burner188 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:05

I think that without the risk of getting injured and the absence of any consequences to actions make decision making very different.

Burner188 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
05/21/2015 at 13:07

I’ve done inside F1 carts once, it was awesome. I couldn’t believe the G’s you pull. And I’ve played racing video games but just like PS3 not the whole set up.

Justin Hughes > D-man9000
05/21/2015 at 13:11

Thanks! I live in MA, and they say write what you know.

Justin Hughes > Ladymopar
05/21/2015 at 13:13

Thanks!

Justin Hughes > Burner188
05/21/2015 at 13:17

I agree on that. If you make a dive bomb pass that doesn’t stick and you take both cars out, that’s real sheet metal you’ll have to fix and real money to pay. But online, you simply apologize, suffer a minor ding to your i-rating, and carry on. You're more likely to try the dive bomb virtually than in real life.

BigGatorChris > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:19

Just got done with both articles.

Nice work. Thanks.

Michael Zaite > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:21

So not withstanding sunk costs, which most of this does not. LeMons and Chump is still BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS the cheapest racing you can do as a per minute cost.

I know it would be a numbers nightmare, but what about a full up everything cost comparison. Say average buy-in and 3 events.

Michael Zaite > NeonBlaqk
05/21/2015 at 13:23

Now, if only you could BUY a commercial level Occulus Rift.......Dev kits don’t count, because then you need to count all the hours of trying to get it to work.

rayJoyal > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:23

I once spun out in front of 20 other pure stocks. That was the moment that racing on the computer lost it for me. Or maybe it was when the oil leak I didn’t know about caused the car to catch on fire. iRacing is cool but it’s just not real.

I still race on the computer, it’s just not the same. One mistake on the computer = restart. When you’re in the pits looking at the busted suspension on your car, that’s real.

I will also say that virtual drag racing is probably the stupidest thing ever. And I love drag racing.

computiNATEor > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:27

Kinja'd!!!

If they could change the lighting to look like Assetto Corsa (not asset; damn autocorrect), they would have the prettiest, biggest, most active, and most realistic sim on the market. Of course, just my opinion.

computiNATEor > NeonBlaqk
05/21/2015 at 13:30

I wish iRacing would update their graphics engine with some new textures and lighting; it has the potential to knock out every other sim on the market in beauty and realism. One of my favorite channels, Empty Box, has said that iRacing always feels an update away from the best sim around.

Justin Hughes > Michael Zaite
05/21/2015 at 13:35

That’s the thing about LeMons/Chump, and any other motorsport requiring a dedicated car. The startup cost is high, but once you have the car, the safety gear, and all that, you can hopefully just keep running it and replace only consumables. And LeMons/Chump is the cheapest way to go for this type of racing, as you say.

That would be an interesting exercise. Do it for LeMons/Chump, SCCA IT, stage rally with a well used pre-built rally car...

computiNATEor > clarkwgriswold001
05/21/2015 at 13:36

Well, when a thunderstorm takes out your internet and power, not any weather... but yeah, totally agree. Since I bought iRacing, I’ve reduced my canyon driving from once or twice a week to once a month, maybe less. So it’s actually saving me gas money. And, with iRacing, it actually doesn’t need that great of a computer. My finely aged 15-inch MacBook Pro ( mid-09 , if you’re interested) runs it just fine in Boot Camp. By the way, the Mac version of iRacing sucks; it runs in a sophisticated “Wine” (open source Windows emulation for UNIX machines), so the performance absolutely blows. And because Apple and Logitech can’t get their acts together on drivers, there is no force feedback. ()

Tom > clarkwgriswold001
05/21/2015 at 13:47

The thrill is no where near the same. There is little (feedback wheels/pedals) to no feedback. I tried it once and it can’t compete with being able to feel what your car is doing. With sim racing you want to perfect all of the technical details (lines, shifting, entry speeds, fuel, tires, etc) but you don’t have that flood of information coming at you through all of the physical inputs of a car. Sims don’t axle hop, clutch buck, mis-shift, or just the car shoving you around in your seat. I’m happy for you that you can cope with a cheaper form of racing, but I need the real experience to get my juices flowing.

computiNATEor > Ham-Ster
05/21/2015 at 13:50

I had a race in iRacing recently with a class of drivers way above my license level (I qualified particularly well), and I can tell you that my heart was racing like crazy as I dropped the clutch for the start. Two laps later, when I locked up the front brakes briefly, my heart shot into my throat, and I had to steady my breathing after sliding way too deep into turn 2 at MRLS. Thankfully, the guy I was chasing saw me coming and moved off line to avoid me. Or when I clipped the curb more than usual in turn 10, and was sent fishtailing all over with a guy right on my rear bumper. (he complimented me on the save, right after passing me). My dad, who sits near my sim setup, asked me later why I was breathing so hard all the time... So yeah, it’s pretty dramatic. However, I think your heart rate stays more consistently elevated in, say, outdoor karting (the only “real” racing I’ve experienced) because of the physical activity and speed. But the adrenaline rush is the same, especially when you drive as poorly as I do.

computiNATEor > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 13:51

As a less-than-1-year iRacing user, I can say that I very rarely dive bomb anyone, for fear of enduring the wrath of the more experienced drivers. :)

computiNATEor > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
05/21/2015 at 13:56

The fact that you’re racing against real people, most of whom are nice, normal human beings, has a lot to do with that!

Justin Hughes > computiNATEor
05/21/2015 at 13:56

Smart move! And smart of iRacing to make your advancement to the next higher license class dependent on maintaining a good i-Rating. If you want to move up, you have to race clean.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Burner188
05/21/2015 at 13:58

Yeah, PS3 games are toys. Try iRacing to see what a real sim’s like. It’s a whole different animal. No assists, strictly multiplayer, accurate car and track design.

D-man9000 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 14:00

heh, me too

KartRacer > Gt3-ted
05/21/2015 at 14:05

That is the real downside of karting. It beats the crap out of you. I can spend all day in an Improved Touring car, and yeah, I’m tired, but I’m ready to go again the next morning after a good night’s sleep.

After a day of karting, I follow my rule of twos:

2 beers

2 Advils

2 doses of muscle cream

2 days off from the workout routine

NeonBlaqk > Michael Zaite
05/21/2015 at 14:18

Admittedly, my husband is a pretty decent computer nerd, but he had no problem getting his DK2 up and running pretty quick out of the box.

RVAScott > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 14:58

The thing I found back of the envelope are that things you do drop running costs compound capital costs. Don’t want to risk your daily driver? Then you need space for the beater, and if you modify it heavily enough for track-only use, then you need a trailer and towing vehicle. If somehow you decide to get out of the game, then you lose a ton on resale and whatever assets you have, are about as illiquid as possible.

Right now in my situation, it’s sim-racing and karting. Next car I get I’ll track very carefully. I might also possibly rent a seat or so a year on a AER/Chump team, but that’s about as far as I could realistically go

maveric101 > JKER
05/21/2015 at 15:07

0.65 organs/minute

BigEgyptian1 > 472CID
05/21/2015 at 15:19

If I may also add...
The $100 Ferrari Experience / Supercar rides that have been a GroupOn staple for 2 years going...

I actually tried this last year in a 360 Modena, was grinning for a week :)

5chnell > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 15:20

Big boy karting isn’t terribly expensive. When I lived in Maryland, we ran with the Woodbidge Kart Club, which is the oldest in America. Our home track was Summit Point, but also ran at VIR, Mid Ohio, Road Atlanta, and Lime Rock at WKA events. The 3 day weekend consists of $40 for Friday practice (6 10 min. runs), and $80 each for up to 2 races each day on Saturday and Sunday. So practice and 2 races ends up being $1.66 per minute (if you use all of your practice sessions and don’t crash out or break during the race). A 30 minute race on a 125 TaG or shifter at VIR is about as much insanity as I can handle, and you’re racing on the same tracks (sometimes shortened) that ALMS runs on. Most people bring a trailer and/or tent to camp on the infield for the weekend. I’d say budget $2500 to $3000 for a decent used starter kart, saftety gear, etc. if you want to run on a budget. There are less expensive ways to go racing, but not if you’re serious about it.

BigEgyptian1 > Nate Bleker
05/21/2015 at 15:34

Check your local karting place, there are at least 3 different places here in CT that do endurance karting (indoors only).
If we have it in CT, there must be some place in TX that has had it for a while :)

Forgetful > Tom
05/21/2015 at 15:37

When you get in to a 45 minute race with 45 cars on track, the level of intensity is high. Racing fender to fender in a sim is immensely satisfying.

Granted, Autocross has caused me to spend less time sim racing, it still offers a lot that I can't get unless I get in to something like LeMons.

Forgetful > Ham-Ster
05/21/2015 at 15:39

The first time I drive with a wheel on the Nurburgring i lost control at the end of the straight and I actually puckered as I careened towards the wall. I've had some many intense races that left me physically drained and thoroughly entertained. Sim racing can be pretty serious racing.

Forgetful > Michael Zaite
05/21/2015 at 15:45

A couple of guys from the local autocross club are in to a LeMons team for North of $25,000. There’s no ‘notwithstanding’ $25k.

Contradiction86 > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 15:52

These are a big help! I’m in NH and just starting out. Thanks!

BLCKSTRM > JD2112
05/21/2015 at 16:13

Benefit of the doubt?

You clearly aren’t familiar with any kind of track event.

Cars like this are normal at most track events, especially time trials of some kind that let you do some modifications.

Unless class rules prohibit it, most serious track cars have wings. And that wing in the picture is properly done with big end plates. I’m actually surprised he doesn’t have a big splitter up front.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 16:15

Great write-up. Last fall, a group of friends and I rented our local track (Hallett) during a weekday for a ridiculously meager sum. We ended up paying right around $250 each. I got in 75 laps that day (best lap 1:37.5), and I could have put in more if hadn’t been worn out by mid-afternoon. Assuming a 1:40 average time, that’s right at $2 a minute.

Johnnyazz > Ham-Ster
05/21/2015 at 16:21

the experience is not the same sure, but excitement per dollar is hard to beat. especially now that the physics are really close to real life.

Justin Hughes > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
05/21/2015 at 16:22

Thanks! Some of the professional track day organizations started out as just a bunch of people renting a track for the day, then eventually turning it into a business.

Just sayin'...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 16:27

I like the way you think. Might have to wait for the kids to get a little older... I’ve run with my local BMW CCA group before, and with The Driver’s Edge (great outfit) at Motorsport Ranch in Cresson, TX.

Michael Zaite > Forgetful
05/21/2015 at 16:37

WOW they are not doing it right at all. Unless your talking Campers and Trailers and other more money than sense luxuries like that. They may be big money camping that just happens to be at a race event. You do see that in all racing.

A team starting from “Hey that LeMons thing looks cool” to “Hey guys turn around, we left the car at the track!” should look like about $8,000 split 4-6 ways.

The sky is always the limit when it comes to stuff you don’t NEED to go racing. Unless they have an amazing crazy engine swapped super themed up car and cook for the whole paddock and/or host a rave. Then they are doing it very right, but it’s unfair to consider that a basic cost of operation.

Michael Zaite > NeonBlaqk
05/21/2015 at 16:39

I’m a recovered computer nerd from the late 90’s (autoexe.bat shout out!!) I now simply want things to work when I plug them in.

It's a "Porch-uh" > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 16:47

And, cue the debate that drifting isn’t racing, or even a real motorsport.

Drifting ISN’T racing. Even drifters would tell you that.

It is, however, motorsport. It’s a sporting event using motors. Can’t argue with that.

AP1M > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 17:07

Off topic but anyone have recommendation in the west coast especially around the San Francisco area for some defensive driving courses that dont cost in the thousands? Like emergency maneuvers and wet sliding type of situations

Michael Zaite > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 17:14

To be fair though, stuff you can use your DD for, MUST take into account accelerated wear and tear, potential non-insurance approved repairs, operating costs primarily or secondarily involved in driving the car for sport, and of course the opportunity cost compromises made in over buying a “race” focused car including but not limited to oversized and overpowered drive train, small interior, small to non-existent trunk space, the “wife’s car” you have to buy for when you actually have to move things and/or more than one passenger, and the higher operating costs of a higher performance car.

Whereas a dedicated car may cost more in some areas, but eliminates some of the other factors. You don’t have to insure a track only car, you don’t have to register a track only car, and you can make the car more suited to track operations without worrying about compromising daily drivability or “OMG how am I going to get to work tomorrow with an upside down car!”

Michael Zaite > RVAScott
05/21/2015 at 17:15

I highly recommend Arrive and Drive. That’s the super secret cheapest way to go racing.

Justin Hughes > Michael Zaite
05/21/2015 at 17:22

One reason I got a BRZ instead of yet another Miata is that I simply need more space and practicality than a Miata can provide. The BRZ has just enough, while still being a sports car.

Michael Zaite > Justin Hughes
05/21/2015 at 17:36

It’s still a utility compromise, “more space than a miata” isn’t saying much. The fold down seats do help a bunch though. But there’s a reason my wife has a wagon as her DD and that’s because I bought a 128i so I could go do track days with. (i did not NEED a 128i, and if I’m being 100% honest with myself another Golf or a Honda Fit would have served my overall needs better and cheaper) I of course then went and bought an old Miata, AND a LeMons car so that further muddies the sanity waters as to why I’m still caring for and feeding a BMW with $100 DIY oil changes and premium gas when I have other toy cars, but best not to get into that.

Forgetful > Michael Zaite
05/21/2015 at 19:57

That's all told. I don't think they're skimping on anything. They also have to travel from Canada.

Cheesewhiz > sartogo
05/21/2015 at 20:46

That is astoundingly expensive relative to Southern California track days. What state/tracks? I usually get six 20-minute runs per day at around $150 with Speed Ventures. Full weekends (10-12 sessions) for around $300.

Drew > PhilKesselRun
05/22/2015 at 10:03

DKC *does* do endurance races - I’ve been in one, so I can testify. Hell, I’m headed that way Sunday if this damn rain holds off.

5chnell > Nate Bleker
05/22/2015 at 17:30

While endurance karting does sound like fun, a $5,750 dollar entry fee (or -$350 if you register 11 months in advance) for the 24 hour race at NOLA is ludicrous. You can get a really nice used 125cc shifter set-up for what you just paid someone else.

http://procup.mycustomevent.com/ShoppingCart.a…

RVAScott > Michael Zaite
05/23/2015 at 11:58

That’s what I’m thinking. Get licensed, then SRF a weekend a year. Totally out of the budget now, but maybe in 3-4 years when some of my bills are paid off...

Michael Zaite > RVAScott
05/23/2015 at 18:48

You don’t need to be licensed for Chump or LeMons. AER lets you in after you do enough Chump or LeMons events.

Unless you mean State drivers license. Then yea you need one of those.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Nate Bleker
06/05/2015 at 02:14

Checking in from Texas as well! I’m going to have to ask the guys at MSR Houston about endurance karting...I participated in a karting challenge in February and had a blast for $250! Came 3rd. Check it out: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/msr-houston-i-…

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Fortner Industries
06/05/2015 at 02:26

HOLY CRAP that is expensive. My local track, MSR Houston has 50mph karts that can be rented for $20 or $25 (can’t remember) for 15 minutes.

Plus, I also signed up for a karting challenge at MSR Houston for $250 and adding up the seat time I got, I drove their karts for 4 Saturdays totalling 179 minutes, consisting of two 10 minute free practice sessions, a 3 minute qualifier per person, and a 20 minute race per saturday. However the third Saturday had its FP2 session used as a qualifier due to the threat of rain so it was made good by allowing another practice session afterwards or giving a voucher to those who didn’t want to go back out to practice. Plus we got an extra 10 minutes on the final Saturday of the challenge, so a 30 minute race! So the cost was $1.396 per minute, however I came in third and won $50, so I personally spent only $1.117 per minute.