We're reaching a point where cars look like the future

"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform) 05/15/2015 at 13:45 • Filed to: None

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And everybody hates them.

Should we go back to bland?

I mean, everyone complains that cars don’t look like the concept renderings we initially see, but now we can actually buy cars that look like some radical concept drawing come to life.

Alex B > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 13:48

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The people of Oppo/Jalopnik may be slow to accept radical change.

Milky > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 13:49

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People complain no matter what, change happens either way. Haters can suck it.

TheHondaBro > Alex B 05/15/2015 at 13:49

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So let’s ease them in, like in Animal Farm.

TheHondaBro > Milky 05/15/2015 at 13:50

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I like the spindle grille.

Alex B > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 13:51

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“Four legs good, two legs better”

Futuristic cars good, analog cars better

PS9 > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 13:55

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This is a false dichotomy. No, it’s not good to make bland looking cars that are boring and unengaging, but also , no, that does not mean that making them ugly as hell becomes an acceptable solution.

The continuum of possible Lexus designs is not a two ended scale that begins with ‘boring’ and ends with ‘fugly’. They can also make something that engages by being beautiful to look at. Someday they will do this, but that day will only come when they leave this random grab-bag of cuts, slits and jagged edges topped off with a predator mouth behind them.

TheHondaBro > PS9 05/15/2015 at 13:57

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that does not mean that making them ugly as hell becomes an acceptable solution.

That right there is purely subjective, and does not merit a strong argument. But this is Jalopnik, where a hot take will always triumph over reason.

SJGeorge94 > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 13:57

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I have a theory that most of Oppo/Jalopnik find almost everything a Japanese auto company does to be wrong just cause its a Japanese auto company. Of course, there is that one exception of Mazda.

bob and john > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 13:58

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agreed. I like lexus’s stuff. they are ball-sy enough to step out of the mold and have the the germans in their own way, and arent trying to beat them at their own game. They are not playing their own game that they want to beat down the germans with

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 14:00

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That’s because I want the future to look like this...

TheHondaBro > SJGeorge94 05/15/2015 at 14:00

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The Jalopnik hive mind favors anything ‘Murikan. Whenever I see this mentality at work, I just picture some crotchety old man complaining about how “those damn Japs” bombed Pearl Harbor while listening to a tape of Supertramp and guzzling a Shiner.

TheHondaBro > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut 05/15/2015 at 14:02

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bruh

LongbowMkII > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 14:03

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The fact is that the new RX is still horrendously boring. It’s not futuristic at all. Sure if the new RX was released in 2005 it would be staggering. But no, it was released in 2015, the era of squinty headlights, giant grills, MOAR BODY CREASES and black plastic on the C pillars. Guess what the RX has? all the same styling cues as a Camry. WOOOOOO!

fucking boring.

PS9 > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 14:03

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Look at this. Look. At. This. Tell me you think this swollen picked scab of a tail light is a good design feature. Tell me how the slice into the wheel well doesn’t suggest that it is infected and will explode with pus in a rear fender-bender.

TheHondaBro > PS9 05/15/2015 at 14:07

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I think that design language is great. Sorry Lexus has the testicles to design something that would merit a second look. It looks unlike anything else on the road.

Milky > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 14:07

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I like it just for the sake of actually pushing design, 200% better than bland.

TheHondaBro > Milky 05/15/2015 at 14:08

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Exactly. It’s an extremely bold design.

BigBlock440 > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 14:15

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Wat? Are you new here? Only in the past year or two has anything positive been said about American vehicles. It’s always been a giant circle jerk over yuropeen and japaniese cars.

BigBlock440 > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 14:16

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Remember when grilles were appropriately sized? I miss those days.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > PS9 05/15/2015 at 14:16

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Thank you for this. Their current designs look like patched together, at best.

TheHondaBro > BigBlock440 05/15/2015 at 14:18

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Let’s see: the recent Ford circlejerk, the “Cadillac-will-beat-the-Germans” thing, the Acura hate, the Lexus hate, people making fun of BMW drivers, etc.

spanfucker retire bitch > PS9 05/15/2015 at 14:23

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Wow. That’s my favorite part of the IS. I love how it that design line flows all the way from the front of the vehicle, back to the rear and even into the taillights.

PS9 > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 14:54

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We’ll just have to agree to disagree on Lexus’ design language, but this little bit right here?

That right there is purely subjective, and does not merit a strong argument. But this is Jalopnik, where a hot take will always triumph over reason.

NO. You are the one who presented a logical fallacy at the core of your argument in this post. That leaves you no ground to stand on to complain about a ‘lack of reason’ in mine.

TheHondaBro > PS9 05/15/2015 at 15:00

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And you choose to answer with subjectivity? Just because you think it’s ugly doesn’t mean that it is, by definition, ugly. I like it, therefore your argument has no merit.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Alex B 05/15/2015 at 15:01

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The people of Oppo/Jalopnik just don’t seem to like new cars, because they are never the utilitarian brown diesel manual RWD miata shooting brake that they dream about.

PS9 > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 15:06

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You own opinion of how good or bad Lexus’ design language is not objective, and cannot be. It’s also an opinion. Do you even know what ‘subjective’ means?

I like it, therefore your argument has no merit.

The merit of an argument does not hinge on the weight of your favor.

TheDude without a car > PS9 05/15/2015 at 15:38

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You probably didn’t interpret his post the way he intended. Your reply was subjective, however.

TheOnelectronic > SJGeorge94 05/15/2015 at 15:59

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Were you not here when everyone was going apeshit over the BRZ/FRS? Or excited for the Civic Type R? Oppo doesn’t have any problem with Japanese brands, it’s just that Japanese cars at the moment don’t really fit our profile much.

TheOnelectronic > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 16:16

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Ford made a couple of really fun, inexpensive hatchbacks that will put a manic smile on your face. Is it really surprising that they’ve been a hit with a community that prioritizes fun driving and doesn’t generally have a lot of cash?

Lexus keeps trying to beat BMW by putting in a much larger engine, but they can’t seem to figure out that the weight and automatic transmissions are holding them back. You’re not going to win the fickle brand-chasers because, well, you’re not BMW, and the people looking for performance aren’t going to choose the less engaging car. Infiniti had the same problem with the G37 a ways back. I cross-shopped the G37 and the 335i, and in driving dynamics, the Infiniti didn’t even come close.

Acura just seems to have given up, but maybe the NSX’s debut in 2299 will change that.

Hell I owned a BMW for a time and I still make fun of BMW drivers, because the kind of person who thinks they’re the center of the universe and more important than “the common people” ALSO tends to gravitate towards BMW or Audi for the brand cachet.

As for Cadillac? Who doesn’t love an underdog? If BMW beats Caddy, it’s what you’d expect. A german brand that prides itself on performance beating the progenitor of American Land Barge-ness? Duh. But for Cadillac to build a car that can compete with BMW’s top-of-the-line? THAT is exciting.

TheOnelectronic > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 16:16

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Yeah, we love all things America, like Volvos, Miatas, and diesels in station wagons.

TheHondaBro > PS9 05/15/2015 at 16:17

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TheDude has it spot on. I didn’t say you all should like the new Lexus, whereas you just flew off the handle using all the negative descriptive language you could muster, using a subjective argument. No, I’m not in kindergarten, I know what subjective means.

Notice how I didn’t say the appearance was good or bad. I called it “like some radical concept drawing.” depending on your opinion of concept renderings, you can take that either way, with no bias from me.

TheOnelectronic > TheHondaBro 05/15/2015 at 16:17

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No tiger-thing, 0/10 worst future ever.

Alex B > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 05/15/2015 at 16:43

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This. And it’s old as hell at this point. :-/ Jalops/oppos need to accept that a brown deisel RWD Miata shooting break isn’t happening.

SJGeorge94 > TheOnelectronic 05/15/2015 at 16:44

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The BRZ/FRS hype train left a month after the cars came out and was followed by “v6 mustang for the price”. The same probably will happen to the type R, “for a few grand more you could get a focus RS

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > TheHondaBro 05/16/2015 at 00:38

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I think the issue is - why is LEXUS of all people deciding to go all “space ships and lasers pew pew” design? I LOVE the Isuzu VehiCROSS and it is so damn space age it was used almost as-is as a “space rover” of sorts in some movies. The 80s Taurus was so futuristic it was used as a cop car in terminator since it looked like something 20 years in the future compared to the normal 80s barges passing as american sedans. Meanwhile Lexus has built its reputation on being 90% of the Mercedes luxury at half the price and twice the reliability. Or rather, Lexus has been “Inoffensively good”. Does its job, nails the bullet points, and is a very nice car to own. But then toyota decides that the conservative buying public of Lexus needs the predator fascia while the main toyota lineup and even scion is lacking. It doesn’t make a lot of sense. I feel like scion could use that fascia on an xB type vehicle. Or maybe toyota could make a new matrix or maybe next gen venza as a family hauler with attitude or something?

Let’s go with a food analogy. You are a typical restaurant serving typical Diner and family fare. Burgers, chicken dinner, omlettes, etc......But you also have some mexican food or something that’s popular with the nearby college. You have an earlybird dinner special for seniors, college nights for student discounts on whatever the meal of the night is, and the usual kids menu and unoffensive lineup of staples for your main family traffic. If you wanted to trot out some new “fusion” dish that is like......mexican/swedish/thai fusion, which crowd would be most receptive to it? Or rather, which crowd would most likely gain you new business or awareness? I can give you a hint - it isn’t the retirees who have a “usual” every week, even if their kids or grand kids are with them sometimes. Likewise, don’t call your salsbury steak and mashed potatoes some buzzword laden name with hashtags and tell the college kids its some new dish you created. At least chop it up and stir fry it with ramen or something.......

This is where the backlash is coming from, in my opinion. Toyota has not done a faceplant. The products are, at their core, still good. But this rash of missed opportunities and bad calls can not continue forever. Why is scion so boring? Why is the toyota lineup so far behind the others? Why is lexus putting alien faces on everything? 10 years ago, they had it spot on - Scion had a driveable cube, a small coupe that was delivered practically with an open invitation to modify, and some funky fresh hatchbacks. Toyota was the boring choice because it was so damn good, everyone bought one. And lexus was “behind” the Germans but that didn’t really matter since whatever they had, worked damn well and they steadily made some good cash on good product. Why did they let their brands take on these different personas that don’t work? I see the toyota brand itself is getting improvements. I hope the new tacoma is good. The corolla and camry are a refresh away from being easy award winners again, I bet. Their SUVs.......mixed bag. They still sell a minivan and it’s doing well. Hopefully Lexus can get their shit together and go back to pushing GM to spend more on Buick and Cadillac.

TheHondaBro > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 05/16/2015 at 00:55

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First of all, I really appreciate your sophisticated and well thought-out response.

Second of all, I think you have the “Lexus persona” wrong. Compared to more established brands such as Audi and BMW, which have existed for the better part of a century, Lexus is a brand new marque. They have not had the time to develop a “typical consumer.” If I can express this in a different way, these brands are like clay figurines you bake in the oven. Brands like Cadillac and Mercedes-Benz have already been baked solid, while Lexus is still fairly soft and pliable. I give Lexus another 30 or so years before they’ve really established themselves. After all, early Lexus was merely an exercise in getting the brand recognized. Lexus still has the time and the resources to do a complete overhaul of their marque without making too many risks, and they’re pushing all the right buttons. Frankly, it’s nice to see a luxury marque pushing the styling envelope and go where no other marque would dare go. Their products are still as great as they were when they started, but now they look like spaceships!

The same can be said about Scion, though I really don’t know what’s going on with them, to be honest. Toyota, on the other hand, is doing the same thing they’ve been doing, but the market has changed drastically. Also consumer tastes have fluctuated. Nissan is no longer the premiere Japanese brand, Honda stopped giving us performance cars (though that’s changing), Toyota isn’t risking their reputation with bold, risky sports cars anymore (that can be said with a lot of brands today), etc.