And on that day, I felt shame for the FP

"Dsscats" (dsscats)
05/14/2015 at 11:03 • Filed to: None

Your forgetting one extremely important point. Braking, cornering, and high speed stability are all shot to shit. Wacked out suspension geometry that causes the car to ride on the bump stops and the tires to roll on a fraction of their contact patch reduces the cars dynamic abilities by about 90%. Not only is this dangerous for the driver in an emergency situation, but it’s dangerous for all the people he might run into. I’d put a stanced car on the same safety level as a 30 year old beater with bald tires, worn out brakes and shocks, and a drunk driver behind the wheel.

And

Exactly. I don’t hate stanced cars, I even kinda like the way some of the more mild drops look.

I hate the people that drive them on public roads and put other peoples lives at risk for the sake of trying to looking cool.

And

This is an automotive enthusiasts forum, “stancing” and “hella flushing” cars is the complete opposite of what we are about. On top of that it’s dangerous, destroys the car, and doesn’t look nice. If you don’t like what the people have to say then I’d recommend deleting your kinja and moving to a different forum.

And

I applaud this officer’s stand against stupid and dangerous mods. I love IS300’s but looking at ones ruined like this makes me sick.

I’m bet it’s someone I’ve spoken too on MyIS, I better keep my mouth shut...

Seriously, shame on all of them. The group mentality of hating stance has made it a somewhat acceptable practice, and as a respectful group of automotive enthusiasts, I think it is absolutely wrong to hate someone sooooo much for modifying their car in a certain way. Sure, it may not be your taste, but don’t get angry because someone else likes it.

Also, STANCING IS NOT THAT UNSAFE. Sure, if there are 8 degrees of camber and super stretched tires, that’s unsafe. But that’s #notallstancedcars. Somehow they’ve gotten paired in with the hellaflush crowd and everyone assumes that’s what it’s all about. There’s also a very good chance that someone who modifies their car to that degree is aware of the possible damage and is more conscious and fastidious about fixing it.

Lastly, shame on the authors for encouraging this hatred against other automotive enthusiasts.

I’m angry, can’t form a coherent rant. That is all.

DISCUSSION (59)

CalzoneGolem > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:07

So I’m confused. Are you implying there was a time you didn’t feel shame for the fp?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:08

You’ll get little sympathy from me. Not trying to be a shit-stirrer, just being honest

“Stance is not that unsafe” is almost as bad as “My tire pressure was off by 1.5 lbs”

Sure, if you want to do that to a show car, go right ahead, I also think it’s perfectly reasonable to tell people they can’t drive it on a public highway.

I also think it’s immensely hypocritical of Quebec (of all places) to outlaw stance, as their lack of periodic vehicle inspection allows shit like this to roll around on their roads unfettered....

Kinja'd!!!

also, your example image is a tastefully lowered vehicle, with reasonable camber, and moderate tire stretch. *NOT* the a poster child for “stance yo!” like the car featured ON the FP. The Quebec law does nothing to prohibit lowering alone, it requires stretched tires and camber be in the equation, and I think thats perfectly reasonable.

FKA-RacecaR > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:11

I just came in here to look at that sexy SC.

TheHondaBro > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:13

I hate stance.

Kinja'd!!!

First of all, your car looks broken. Second of all, driving dynamics are ruined immensely. I’d be scared to drive a stanced car. Also tire wear is extremely lopsided and doesn’t make any sense financially. You’d have to be an idiot to not realize that paying full price on a tire and only using half of it is stupid.

spanfucker retire bitch > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:19

I think it is absolutely wrong to hate someone sooooo much for modifying their car in a certain way. Sure, it may not be your taste, but don’t get angry because someone else likes it.

I don’t get mad because someone else likes it, I get mad because it’s a shit modification that ruins the looks, dynamics, performance, and even everyday usability of the vehicle.

You’re free to hellaflush the shit out of your car, but you’ll also have to accept the opinions and vitriol of people who vehemently despise the practice. You don’t get a free pass on judgement and opinion just because you say so.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:25

I would argue that the pictured SC is only lowered, certainly not “hellaflush”. Stance has gone from “it has an aggressive stance” to “check out my stance’d Vdub brah, it’s tiiiight!”. In my own head lexicon stance refers to a functional lowering+camber, and is acceptable on track cars and drift cars. Pretty much anytime the front camber is more aggressive than the rear camber you know they have overshot stance and gone full hellaflush.

Also hellaflush can/will die in a fire/blowout.

Baskingshark > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:25

I saw that and I like lowered cars, it seems like a lot of people don't understand how air ride suspensions work when they are posting picture of slammed cars that obviously are on air.

BigBlock440 > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:25

Are you James?

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
05/14/2015 at 11:26

This.

desertdog5051 > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:26

Gotta love the 3rd comment. Are stancers not enthusiasts in their own right?

Party-vi > TheHondaBro
05/14/2015 at 11:26

Yeah but you’re implying that the Accord had driving dynamics to be ruined in the first place :3

TheHondaBro > Party-vi
05/14/2015 at 11:28

Four-wheel independent suspension, bro.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:29

You’ll get no sympathy from me, stancing is literally the worst think you can do to a car and that’s including driving it off a cliff

Quadradeuce > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:32

If you have to slow to a crawl to drive over railroad tracks (as I witnessed earlier this week) your car is probably not safe. That’s the issue. A safely stanced car is fine, and I do like the look of mildly stanced cars. But more often than not I see it taken to the extreme, which is hard to do safely. Take the safety issue aside and I doubt most people care. But those of us who have knowledge of how these cars are modified know there are often serious mechanical issues lurking below.

crowmolly > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:34

First, a pet peeve:

EVERY CAR HAS A FUCKING STANCE.

As proof, here’s an early Detroit Speed t-shirt design. Circa 2003 I think.

https://www.detroitspeed.com/apparel/990107…

Pick any completed car on this list http://www.detroitspeed.com/Projects/proje… and say it’s an ill-handling bitch.

The car you posted looks lowered. That’s not what many people really take issue with.

Stuff like this is reviled:

Kinja'd!!!

To me it’s like a white boy Donk.

1.) Out-of-place stickers and logos

2.) Downgraded suspension for aesthetic reasons

3.) Extra hero points for the more ridiculous

4.) Big tire costs

Money Hustard > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:35

That’s what I was trying to say here about rolling coal , but was told to fuck off and die.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Baskingshark
05/14/2015 at 11:35

missing point: FP car is NOT on air.

remember, low riders came from people realizing that their over-lowered and super-cambered cars were impractical/unsafe to drive on public roads... now sure, they’ve gone off on another extreme... the point remains.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:36

I'm completely with you. I don't like how stanced cars usually look in general, but to each their own. It's not all that unsafe and if we are going to talk about safety are we going to start banning model-T's or a 60's land barge with no air bag, no ABS, no TCS, and 50 year old brake tech? I really hate the argument that things that I don't agree with that could possibly hurt someone should be banned, immediately.

Tripper > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:38

“Stanced” cars are for clowns. The carnival kind, the “juggalo” kind, or the type of clowns that show up to “stanced” meets. Take your pick

Milky > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:39

I don’t know about everywhere but metro Detroit stance is 90% functional … as with many things in life people don’t like the vocal minority. That SC is awesome and most stanced cars are awesome.

Haters will hate.

AthomSfere > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:40

There are mods that can be done safely. Lowering is one thing, slammed, stanced, hellaflush, stretched are not safe for the roads. Lowered a little, OK. But when you start going outside of what the engineers ever planned for but intend to use it for what the engineers originally designed for... that’s dangerous. That’s a compromise of performance.

So if you want a show / magazine car go for it... But then the enthusiast in me gets angry because when a perfectly good C7 or NSX or other car I would love to drive is taken off the roads so it can sit around... That’s a sad day.

Textured Soy Protein > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:41

I just don’t agree with the “we’re all enthusiasts here so let’s respect their enthusiasm” kumbaya bullshit. People have opinions, and sometimes those opinions will be different. My opinion is, fuck stanced cars and the stancebros who drive them.

I don’t worry about stanced cars being unsafe. But they still suck. I hate stancebros, because:

It is a modification done to a car for the sake of looks at the expense of performance, and yet makes the car look worse, not better.

Stancebros want to appropriate non-stanced cars and refer to them as “functional stance” or “meaty stance” as if these non-stanced cars being considered subsets of stanced cars (when they aren’t) somehow makes stancebroitude more legitimate. A car with properly set up suspension and wheel & tire sizes that happens to be lower than stock is not immediately a subset of “stanced.” It’s a car with a modified suspension, and the very antithesis of stance fuckery.

Stance makes otherwise normal people think that any aftermarket suspension parts are evil. There are tons of ways to modify a car’s suspension that make the car better. But you see a bunch of anti-stancers saying things like this: “The engineers spent millions of dollars and countless hours on designing this setup, and you expect to improve upon that with a set of coilovers? Are you an engineer?”

Calling people out for promoting their terrible taste in automotive modifications is an inalienable human right.

Party-vi > TheHondaBro
05/14/2015 at 11:41

The Pilot has 4-wheel independent suspension bruh. Does it handle better than the Accord?

TheHondaBro > Party-vi
05/14/2015 at 11:42

Bruh. VTEC.

Party-vi > TheHondaBro
05/14/2015 at 11:44

OK BUT THE PILOT HAS VTEC TOO THO

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:45

Screw stance. It’s unsafe and dumb.

In a lot of cases, illegal too

Textured Soy Protein > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
05/14/2015 at 11:45

It’s not so bad in the front, but the rear wheels stick out well past the fender and there’s a lot of tire stretch going on.

TheHondaBro > Party-vi
05/14/2015 at 11:51

And that’s why it’s the greatest car in the world.

Party-vi > TheHondaBro
05/14/2015 at 11:52

The Pilot is not the greatest car in the world. It is just a tribute.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 11:54

Sorry but intentionally reducing the contact area that your tire has on the road with a ridiculous camber is stupid and unsafe.

When I take my truck off road I run my tires at around 20 psi but you don’t see me running that when I’m on tarmac because it’s stupid and unsafe.

Baeromez > desertdog5051
05/14/2015 at 11:59

Exactly. The same argument always gets applied to donks and lowriders. Anyone who is into cars enough to drastically alter them to get a specific look is definitely an enthusiast.

spanfucker retire bitch > Textured Soy Protein
05/14/2015 at 12:03

I just don’t agree with the “we’re all enthusiasts here so let’s respect their enthusiasm” kumbaya bullshit.

THANK YOU! This perverse idea that “we’re all in this together” is the greatest amount of bullshit I’ve ever seen on this board. Why exactly am I not allowed to criticize your options? Sure, you’re allowed to do whatever you want to your car - it’s your car - but that doesn’t insulate you from feedback or even hatred to what you’ve done.

Imagine if someone came on here with a car covered in fake chrome vents from AutoZone and told all of us we couldn’t make fun of him because he’s a fellow car enthusiast and “we’re all in this together.” Fuck that noise.

Racescort666 > Textured Soy Protein
05/14/2015 at 12:06

No disagreement there. Aesthetic-only modifications are dumb in my opinion.

This is certainly an annoying aspect of the stancebro who is a subset of the bro.

Yes, yes I am...

TheHondaBro > Party-vi
05/14/2015 at 12:07

Any car that has the vtaks is the bestest and sexiest car in the wuuuuuuuurld.

spanfucker retire bitch > Party-vi
05/14/2015 at 12:14

It’d be really great if the Pilot happened to be a rebranded Mazda Tribute.

Your comment would have worked on so many levels. Alas.

spanfucker retire bitch > Money Hustard
05/14/2015 at 12:17

Your post was nonsense and completely unequivocal to a single vehicle doing stunt moves for a video on a closed course.

Rolling Coal is literally indefensible.

nermal > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 12:17

There’s a difference between changing out suspension for and wheels for looks / performance and being stoopit about it.

Example 1: Tastfully lowered GTI with proper BBS wheels. Probably drives & handles nicely - a bit rough on bumpy roads, but otherwise very usable.

Kinja'd!!!

Example 2: A gaggle of ruined GTIs. They look dumb and drive like ass and are completely pointless. Probably scrape on everything and sound fart-tastic.

Kinja'd!!!

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Textured Soy Protein
05/14/2015 at 12:23

It’s not “stanced/hellaflush” until the rear tires are at crazy levels.

BJ > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 12:36

I saw a lot of those comments, and they mostly just petty and childish. At the same time, as AtlasM said in his reply , we don’t all have to agree and like all the same things. For example, many people like brodozers, and many people do not.

Personally, I understand your frustration, but coming from a different angle: I think it’s ridiculous to be called “fascists” - and worse! - because our province’s vehicle modification rules are restrictive. Obviously, that makes all Quebecers stupid and lame. Broad generalizations like that are annoying and, quite honestly, unnecessarily rude.

(You may have seen my write-up in response to this topic: http://jalopnik.com/i-had-a-conver… I hope you’ll take a moment to read it and appreciate the explanation.)

Just as stance/hellaflush haters love to hate anything that’s too low, the more rabid defenders of stance sure get their panties in one hell of a knot when somebody has the nerve to disagree with their point of view.

In any case, Mr Ballaban knew exactly what he was doing when he posted that article: it was bound to bring out the crazies, and by calling the car “fully sikkkk yo” he managed to get in a poke at the stancers at the same time. And here we are all playing along!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Money Hustard
05/14/2015 at 12:37

When you defend rolling coal, always remind them about how big of an asshole the average Environmentalist is, it changes the reaction. For example, post Prius Lady, and suddenly everyone wants to roll coal.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 12:47

I agree, I ragequit the fp, the amount of unbased comments and the never-ending anti stance circlejerk ‘’hurr durr unsafe ricer honda wannabe faggots u ruined tha carr’’ of these idiot fp hipsters thinking that they are better than others.

Money Hustard > spanfucker retire bitch
05/14/2015 at 12:47

How is rolling coal, when done at a truck event, not a single vehicle doing a stunt?

Sure rolling coal isn’t always done at events, but neither is drifting and burnout. In fact, the latter happens more on public roadways.

See how I just defended it?

Just for the record, I think it’s a tasteless moronic thing to do.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > TheHondaBro
05/14/2015 at 12:53

It is about taking a car to the limit. Not in the sense of how fast, but how low.

Tire wear is a sacrifice they are willing to make.

Kinja'd!!!

Money Hustard > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
05/14/2015 at 12:57

I very much am your typical environmentalist, as such I pay attention to what’s fucking the planet up, and oil consumption is very far down that list, unfortunately.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Textured Soy Protein
05/14/2015 at 12:59

1. Thats your opinion that it looks worse.

2. the car has a ‘stance’ either way, high or low. I don’t really see people (stop calling them stance’bros’ for once) calling cars stanced if they really arent. Thats just my experience.

Terrible taste is subjective, I think it looks great. Sure there are bad examples and things I don’t like,but that is with every subculture of cars. There are bad lifted cars, there are bad go-fast cars.

But stance still is a part of car culture. I’m not saying you should like it, but they are also people who enjoy cars.

Dsscats > nermal
05/14/2015 at 13:01

But who are you to say that someone should only modify their car for performance? And it’s almost guaranteed those are bagged

nermal > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 13:09

Others are welcome to modify their cars for the sole purpose of making them look dumb, at the expense of performance and usability. Just as I am welcome to point out that they look dumb.

Textured Soy Protein > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder
05/14/2015 at 13:12

Thats your opinion that it looks worse.

You’re right, it is my opinion:

My opinion is , fuck stanced cars and the stancebros who drive them.

You’re also falling back to the “we’re all enthusiasts here” kumbaya bullshit.

But stance still is a part of car culture. I’m not saying you should like it, but they are also people who enjoy cars.

There are no holy scriptures of car culture which decree “if thou art a car enthusiast, thou shalt respect all car enthusiasts, even if you think other people’s taste in cars is horrendous.”

Just because someone likes part of something, doesn’t mean they have to like, or respect, all of that thing.

I like hip hop. I hate Drake because he has a whiny, grating voice and the very first time one of his songs played on my Pandora hip hop station I was like “what the hell is this horrible crap, THUMBS DOWN.”

Just because I am a hip hop enthusiast, does not mean I have to like or respect all hip hop, even the stuff that offends my eardrums.

Similarly, just because I am a car enthusiast, does not mean I have to like or respect all cars, even the stuff that offends my sense of taste in cars.

Dsscats > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder
05/14/2015 at 13:15

That’s what I’ve been trying to say so much better articulated than I would be able to.

Also, since when are non-performence modifications not acceptable?

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Textured Soy Protein
05/14/2015 at 13:20

I think it came over wrong, not a native speaker here. I’m not saying you should respect them, like them, or not critisize them, but just remember that they are not horrible people or stoopid just for liking stance. They get put in a corner because they, according to the rest of the car scene, don’t ‘get’ what a ‘real car enthusiast’ is and that they arent .They are.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 13:24

I think it has to do with keeping a car more ‘clean’ looking, the car scene is moving to be the complete opposite of the FnF scene of the early oo’s. Keep a car clean looking (No stickers, underglow etc.) and if you don’t have the power, don’t bother.. something like that I think.

Gen2Teg > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 13:26

Some of this reminds me of forums, back in my youth. If someone said, they were going to put Rotas on their car, you got comments similar to some of those & that same recycled meme of the broken unidentified rim, claiming to be Rotas. Hell, i once saw someone ask whats a good brand of cheap tires to use because, he needed new ones but money was tight for him, for w/e reason. Then proceeded to see someone write a short essay, ripping into the guy for not buying the most expensive best tires, claiming people who dont buy these are a danger to others on the road.

The people who try and say stanced cars are pointless ect. ect. fail to bring up like 99% of car mods are pointless. Lifting ur truck and puttin on mudslingers for those 2 days out the year u go off-roading is pointless & stupid, so is putting on sticky tires and racing rims to drive, to and from work.

When its all said and done, the fact still remains, there arnt nearly enough hellaflush cars on the road for this to be an epidemic & when they do drive on the road, they drive slow as fuck for obvious reasons.

getanotherhobby-carsarentforyou > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 13:46

Ruining a cars performance for looks is beyond dumb. The idiots that do it dont deserve to be wrenching on cars.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 14:13

The car pictured isn’t really stanced, just low. No camber, no stretch, no tucking. Seems reasonable. This is what’s retarded and dangerous and is what we all hate:

Kinja'd!!!

A rare, amazingly capable, perfectly-engineered performance car RUINED.

Street Surgeon > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 14:14

"This is an automotive enthusiasts forum, “stancing” and “hella flushing” cars is the complete opposite of what we are about. On top of that it’s dangerous, destroys the car, and doesn’t look nice. If you don’t like what the people have to say then I’d recommend deleting your kinja and moving to a different forum."

Heh, I like how this fellas way of being a car enthusiast is "what we are all about" :D I mean, heaven forbid people enjoy their cars/hobby the way they like it. I'm not a fan of stance at all, and in fact I think it's well.... Dumb. If that is what you're in to however by all means proceed, it's not my style to criticize. Just enjoy your ride.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Dsscats
05/14/2015 at 15:11

This

Kinja'd!!!