The wife and I are discussing our next vehicles

"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck) 05/12/2015 at 22:26 • Filed to: first world solutions, give me more money please

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On the way to dinner with my parents, my wife and I did a little car spotting on the interstate. Soon, we began discussing our replacement vehicles. My wife DDs an poorly-built Sable that we would like to replace before we drop another crapton of money to fix the next thing that fails. Engine and trans have been amazing, but everything surrounding it crap. I change her oil, and a few months ago, I noticed several larger concerning bits of metal in the drain pan. The clock is ticking.

Our budget is conservative, due to our recent home acquisition, but should yield better than what is pictured above. She likes “cute” little cars, must be four doors, hatch-like. She likes the Fit and the Soul, so I pointed out a first-gen xB and she really liked that too. I personally do not like the Soul, at all, but it is a very real possibility. Hopefully I can find a not-terribly-high-mileage xB or Fit in the meantime.

She said she would consider a wagon, pending her approval. So sure enough, one of my favorite wagons passed us right then and there:

“Okay, that is pretty sweet,” she said.

A man can dream... Unfortunately she needs a bullet-proof car, as she is not is not car-savvy and drives a lot. “When was the last time you checked your oil?” I used to ask years ago. “Ahhh.....” She has driven more than one car while it was completely overheating. I have improved some of her awareness, but really, we are who we are. Just yesterday, she asks: “Did you water the plants like I asked you to?” I reply: “Ahhhh.... Noooo? :( “

Now on to the other person: me. The space lobster. I am mulling over an attempted transfer, or outright career shift, within the next two years. A change that may well be at the cost of my work-provided vehicle. My one remaining personal vehicle is a 35-year old pickup that is better suited to haul wood, garbage, and couches, than it is to daily-drive through shitty local traffic, though I do love it so. And as much as I love it, I have had to fix many things on it since I bought it (on the cheap thankfully), and it needs a few more repairs for sure. So my plan is to just park the pickup in the garage and call upon when needed, and have a new daily.

Wife: “I don’t want to just keep buying more beaters...”
“No, we won’t. You’re going to get a nice car. I can drive more beaters if I had to, but I think I’m over it.”
“Well —”
“Don’t worry, I’m never buying a $350 car again. I’m thinking I’m ready for a nice car.”
“Like what?”
“Probably something as old as the Tercel... but in much, much, much better shape.””

Any opinions about the xB vs Soul vs Fit?

Also, has any American actually seen a VW Fox Wagon in person?

Your boy, BJR > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 22:30

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I looked at both a Fox wagon and Quantum wagon a few years back. Felt super flimsy so I passed on both.

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 22:33

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Sounds like a step up. From my experience the Fit is fairly bulletproof but friends/family have had bad Kia Soul experiences. I’ve always heard good things about the xB but good luck finding a low mileage one. Have you considered any Subarus for her? I’d say look at the Impreza, XV Crosstek, and maybe the Fozzie. Pontiac Vibes are good from what I've heard and look better than the Toyota Matrix it's based on.

wafflesnfalafel > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 22:37

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Our neighbor’s in-home care giver has one of those Fox wagons, (or 2dr hatch - whatever you want to call it.) Nice looking and useful - but not exactly the most reliable vehicle. They have rust issues too. Regarding xB vs Soul vs Fit - we looked at all three several years ago. At 6’2” I didn’t fit in any of them very well, but all were nice little vehicles. Fit gets the best mileage, was the most fun to drive and I thought had the best interior. The Xb was probably the most mainstream and useful, other than the goofy dash gauge cluster.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Your boy, BJR 05/12/2015 at 22:39

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The Fox was a darkhorse at best, and the 4000 would be my first target for sure.

TheHondaBro > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 22:44

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I have so many questions.

lonestranger > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 22:47

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I’ve seen and driven many Fox wagons, but I’m a Canadian who worked at a VW dealer in the ‘90s. Canadians love cheap, small cars, so I’m guessing we had* more Foxes per-capita that the States did.

*I’m sure all of the Canadian Foxes have rusted away long ago.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > wunderwagen wants a longer roof 05/12/2015 at 22:47

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The Vibe is definitely much more in our price range than those Subarus. Also, I agree with your Vibe analysis. I think first-gen Matrices are ugly. I’d take a second-gen, though.

Her best friend has a Soul and keeps raving how great and reliable hers is, but it’s a 3-year old Korean car... I think the Jury’s still out on reliability.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > wafflesnfalafel 05/12/2015 at 22:49

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Yeah, Fit is her frontrunner. Which is great, because I’m trying to steer her further away from the Soul

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > TheHondaBro 05/12/2015 at 22:51

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I googled “pile of cars.” Some good results.

Rollo75 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 22:52

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The Ford Fiesta.

I don’t know if having a Mexican built Fiesta makes that much of a difference but the European ones that we get in Australia are ace.

The Fiesta is a brilliant little car to drive around and because the seats fold flat, in hatchback form, the car passes the washing machine test.

Basically if you’re being chased by baddies through a shopping mall, or want to do a beach assault with the Royal Marines, or need to carry anything from a marble through to a small fridge (shopping included), or want to do 65mph around a roundabout or 95mph down the motorway, or want to go backwards through the drive-through at McDonald’s, or need to carry two large German Shepherds, or a surfboard to the beach, or want to take four friends to the coffee shop... then the Ford Fiesta is the perfect car for you.

Obviously if you need to cart around a cement mixer or a giraffe, then you need a pickup. If you want to look like a knobhead, a bell-end or a pratt, then get a BMW, Audi or M-B. If you think that beige is a good idea and you like to watch trains in the rain for hours, get a Chevrolet.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 22:57

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I have seen a VW Fox wagon in person. The Fox was reasonably popular in Canada at one time.

And my thoughts are the Fit is probably the best car for driving enjoyment. The xB probably has a bit of a space advantage. And the Soul is ‘meh’ to me.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 05/12/2015 at 23:00

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xB has added bonus of looking like a rolling toaster

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:00

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Wasn’t sure how high you could go so I just threw it out there with the Subies.

The Vibe is one I have a soft spot for because Pontiac. It is a genuinely good car though, finding one in good condition would probably be a breeze and I’m sure the interior isn’t total 00s GM. Yeah, 3 years is nothing on a car. My best friends step sister and family have had two Souls which were shot boxes from my understanding. I know that Kia/Hyundai have gotten better but I still have that bias against them. They aren’t to “American” level reliability imo.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > wunderwagen wants a longer roof 05/12/2015 at 23:06

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Agreed, I have a bit of bias against them. At least I feel like the Fits are built well enough. Although I’m warming up to this Vibe idea. I see them everywhere around here. Probably because they’re just Toyotas, which is why they still run.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:08

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Vibe and Matrix is a good option. Consider the Ford Focus hatchback and wagon as well.

The Focus Wagon has 35 cu ft. of cargo space with the back seats up. If you care about cargo space in a small package, it’s hard to beat the Focus Wagon.

The Focus isn’t as bulletproof as a Honda or Toyota though. Inspect the tie rods, check to make sure the 3rd brakelight/rear wiper work. If they don’t it likely means the wiring that goes into the hatch needs fixing. Not terribly expensive... unless you go to the dealer, have them charge you $150 for a new harness and charge you a lot for labour. Can even do it yourself... like I did on my own Focus.

And if the car vibrates a lot and is noisy, it needs a new passenger side engine mount. And only replace it with the more expensive hydraulic OEM motor mount (which costs around $82 @ rockauto.com)... not an el cheapo rubber mount (which costs around $14).

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:09

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I’ve seen a fox wagon once (I didn’t know what it was) and I was bewildered by the obvious giorgetto styling but could not place what manufactorer it was from. And a possible choice for a DD for you and the boss would be a 1st gen Toyota Matrix XRS. It has the peppy and powerful 2ZZ and is more commonly available in Vibe/Matrix trim than the rare Corolla trim. It's reliable, it's fun. If she knows how to drive stick, even better for the both of you. They are relavently cheap around 6 grand for a nice one.

Your boy, BJR > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:09

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You should get a ‘91 or ‘92 Brougham. But that’s just me.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 05/12/2015 at 23:10

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Sounds like you are well versed in Ford econo-hatches. That’s a lot of very specific failures!

Spaceball-Two > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:10

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Hatch Mazda 3 for the Mrs.? They don’t rust here and they can be worked on pretty easily.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 05/12/2015 at 23:11

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Her car has to be automatic... I know, I know. But yeah, a good motor like that would make it more fun.

Katsumoto > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:11

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I own a 2008 Fit Base. Up til the new 15 models Fit has a Sport and Base model.

Base - No cruise, no key fob($110 kit and it can be added),steel wheels with hubcaps, no foglights and a factory Aux Input

Sport - Cruise, Fog lights, double sided tape moldings and alloy wheels

The 07-08 Fits with factory fog lights are a glass housing. Any rock might break them then, no foglights anyway. I took a base, bought a 45 kit off ebay and got a aux input, then the said$110 kit + programming for a new key(The kit has a secondary fob, but I used a factory style fob with built in key, since I’ve had bad luck with fobs.

My 08 has 165k on it. Other than a battery(died from old age) and a clutch I haven’t done ANYTHING to it other than basic maintenance. It’s been a good car for me and I’d buy another.

The fit’s biggest drawbacks, from the factory it sits lower than you’d think. So don’t pull the front end over parking blocks. The bumper, lower engine cover will magically fall in love and when you back out, they stay in the spot. The horn on the 07-08’s is weak sounding. For 20 bucks and an about a half hour you can install a Honda Accord horn from an 07-11. To get a much louder horn. The seats don’t provide lumbar support if you or her need it. The seats also can be a little stiff and provide little to no support for longer trips.

The biggest drawback to a Fit is the windows. The Fit has giant windows, which is nice for visibility, but blows donkey dick in the summer without tint or leaving one window open a little.

An example, It’s been 80 here in Ohio all last week. I get in my Fit, its 100.

If you do decide on a first gen fit, the 07-08. CHECK into the recalls. Honda has had 3 on the drivers side 4 window switches ALONE. 1 on the electric power steering(warranty extended to 150k on that), the drivers headlight and something else.

The biggest pluses -

Sorry I speed, So I do 80 mph most of the time on the highway. In 5th gear that is about 4k rpm with the stick and 3200 with the auto in the Fit. I still get about 30 mpg.

The ability to move with it. The 07-08’s have “magic” seating as Honda called it. The bottoms of the back seats fold up for big screens, the backs fold down for a big flat cargo area. (The drawback is, move both front seats forward, fold down all rear seats, slide front seats back) because of the headrests. On the rear seats. Speaking of the headrests for the back seats, they do block some visibility, so I took mine off and just boxed them up and their in my garage.

The base’s steel wheels have small cheap tires. I bought 4 Goodyears 175/65/R14 at Walmart for 53 a pop.

The Fit is a throw away car. If it was in an accident, it’s more than likely totaled. However,

http://jalopnik.com/this-guy-rolle…

Thats the article. He rolled his Fit 7 times and walked away. Thanks to the A pillar airbag, seat mounted side airbag and steering wheel airbag.

If you see a Fit that’s not a 2015+ with a sunroof, RUN. It’s not factory, the curved roof screwed that up.

Any other questions about the First Gen Fit’s I can answer, just ask.

Ps - The Fit uses a timing chain, so 200-250k is the mileage before you’d worry about one. If you do buy a stick, it’s at least an 8-9 hour job for the mechanic to change the clutch. It involves dropping the subframe, stripping the drivers front wheel area and all that. I saw that and said nope, and took my clutch job to a mechanic.

lonestranger > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:12

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Oh, you aren’t actually considering a Fox, are you?

I worked at the VW dealer at the same time that Lada left the Canadian market. Since there were no longer any Lada dealers, warranty work was contracted out to places like ours. Samaras that were still under warranty were the most comparable car to the Fox.

Don’t think of it as a cheap VW made in South America, think of it as a Brazilian shitbox with a VW badge.

John_Harbinson > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:13

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May I recommend the volvo -70 Series? Whether it is an Xc-70 or a V70, they are very reliable, I have a friend who had a V70 that his parents bought new in 2004(?) and put almost 200k on it with routine maintinence before it fell victim to a patch of black ice this past winter :( decent looking, and don’t get as great mpg as a fit or a xb, but a great wagon, as far as wagons go. As for subies, they had timing belt and head gasket issues at about 105k miles if the service isn’t done to it, although I’m not sure if those problems were limited to the ej series motors or not.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Spaceball-Two 05/12/2015 at 23:16

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Not a bad suggestion! Those are great looking cars.

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:19

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The whole Toyota with a Pontiac badge is probably why they are still going strong haha. Test drive everything and remember, Autotrader is your friend and they have an app. I think the Focus wagon further down is a good idea but that is a lot to possibly deal with right off the bat though. Lots of labor if you can’t do/don’t want to do the fixes yourself

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > John_Harbinson 05/12/2015 at 23:19

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She doesn’t seem to be a Volvo fan... I think they have a charm though. I’d rock the 60.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:20

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My Mom has an ‘09 Vibe GT and loves it. 120k miles without a single issue. It’s even relatively fun to drive.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 05/12/2015 at 23:24

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She could get a Vibe and I could get a GTO!

Spaceball-Two > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:27

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They also come in manual

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:28

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Not that bad. I own one and have gotten familiar with some of the common issues. As any car ages, issues will come up.

And I also bought my Focus used and it was 7 years old. The place that I bought the car off of replaced the motor mount (if you have an engine hoist, it’s a job that takes less than 1 hour) and one tie rod.

The only one of those issues I had to fix myself was the wiring... which if you do it yourself, can be fixed for less than $50.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Spaceball-Two 05/12/2015 at 23:31

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It will be her car... It has to be an auto... D:

Spaceball-Two > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:33

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Yeah mine won't even move my car if I'm parked behind her.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Spaceball-Two 05/12/2015 at 23:39

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I know those feels. I give her a pass, though. She commutes on 405. I’m sure you understand.

Spaceball-Two > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/12/2015 at 23:58

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Yup

desertdog5051 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/13/2015 at 00:16

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My ex has had a Soul for several years. No problems. Seems like a decent car. I would buy.

Dunnik > lonestranger 05/13/2015 at 00:46

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Haven’t driven the Fit, but I have put in a few miles in the Soul. Kia has certainly come a long way in recent years, and I’ve grown to like their lineup, but the Soul is an exception. It feels flimsy, has some of the lightest, tin-can-like doors I’ve seen. It feels awkward to drive, too. I don’t feel any confidence with the car in corners, due to its short wheelbase and higher center of gravity.

So even though I haven’t driven it, I’d go for the Fit over the Soul. Just be prepared to pay the “Honda tax” - due to their (perceived/actual) reliability they command a premium on the used market.

You might also want to consider the Toyota Matrix. Based on the previous generation Corolla, it was recently cancelled in the US due to poor sales, but is still going strong in Canada. You can probably find some CPO examples for cheap, and a dealer eager to get rid of them.

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/13/2015 at 08:00

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Friend of mine used to have a first gen XB with a manual transmission. I enjoyed that car. It was a fun car with a ton of room and it was comfortable to drive. I’ve only driven it a few times, but it left a very positive impression.

mazda616 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/13/2015 at 09:04

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I had a 2014 Soul as a rental in D.C. last year and I really, really liked it. It was funny looking but drove incredibly smoothly and got great gas mileage. Very capable in the snow, too.

JEM > mazda616 05/13/2015 at 09:57

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I had the first gen Soul as a rental a number of years ago as well. Put ~250 miles on it and loved the little thing. If I was in the market for a new commuter car, that would be at the top of my list.

Considering Kia = Hyundai and has for the better part of a decade, you should have no worries/problems about reliability. I’ve had a ‘98 and an ‘05 Hyundai and both were rock solid cars that went well over 150K without a problem.