Just had my first experience with under steering, scared shitless

"mitology" (mitology) 05/10/2015 at 18:26 • Filed to: Honda, jdm, understeer, elves, magic, euror

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Guys, the headline pretty much says it all. I just got my first car a few months ago and have been driving a lot. I have been pushing myself harder trying to learn more about my limits and the cars limit and as of late ive been feeling more confident, well, i was at least.

I drive a Honda Accord Euro R, the jdm only CL1 version thingey, and until today i believed it had magical elves living on each of the front wheels making sure i could take bends as quick as possible without much hassle, however, today they must have abandoned me, i know for a fact they are real.

So here i am driving downhill through this long stretch of road that ends with a short hard left turn, window down, care free thinking about how awesome the Vtec Honda God is to bless me with such rpm’s.... Im pushing about 160 km/h (which is up 40 from what i usually do this corner in), when suddenly mid corner i think to myself fuck, i might pushed it a bit too far today... My wheel is fully locked, im braking and the abs is doing its magic thingey too, but i cant be helped, traction in the front wheels breaks and im going straight off...

Bang, i hit this curb, wrestle the wheel a bit and since i lost enough speed to get traction again i safely put i back on the road.

It was over quickly but i still cant believe i got away from that with no apparent damage, bumper is aok, suspension too, however the alignment seems to have suffered a bit.

So besides a bruised ego and some shakiness I believe I have learned a valuable lesson, Honda needs to be sued for not letting us know the elves take sundays off.

Anyway I think understeer is horrible and I should have done a few things differently, maybe carrying less speed or using engine braking too, Im pretty sure you guys can give me some more tips to avoid this scenario in the future, so please do.

So, what understeer experiences have you guys had? Where you as lucky as me? Please let me know.

1111111111111111111111 > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:34

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First time it happened to me was in my moms prelude. I cranked the wheel over and I kept going straight. Lucky I had some runout. Fast forward 20 years, I got a rwd car last year and am wondering what oversteer feels like.

Edit: Protégé

E. Julius > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:36

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Yikes, sounds scary. That’s a pretty quick speed too. I’m not going to play concerned parent here, but just be careful out there. Sometimes a car is just outside its performance envelope and there’s nothing the best driver in the world could do to get it around the bend. As far as my own experience is concerned…

I remember the first time I drove by myself in the snow. I had made it to the bottom of the hill my road is on, through ice and slick snow in a tiny car with no ABS, and managed to stop before the stop sign. I felt so proud of myself, and then when I made my left turn I gave it a bit too much gas and plowed into the neighbors driveway. Ended up about a hand’s width away from their mailbox.

Nerd-Vol > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:36

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I’ve had it happen before on highway 129 in my old Integra. The tires just gave up grip really early.

I do not recommend testing the limits on a public road. Do yourself a favor and go do an autocross so you can feel the limits of your car in a safe and competitive environment.

whoarder is tellurium > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:37

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Autocross noob here:

Nothing you can do with late apex understeer. If its too late, its too late and the curb is gonna bite. Sometimes, you can try applying the handbrake (without locking it) to get the rear to come around. However, if there’s no room (should you end up spinning the car) or there are other cars around then all you can do is ride it out at that point.

Edit: That also has the possibility of flipping the vehicle if the rear end catches. Don’t get yourself in that situation to begin with.

mitology > E. Julius 05/10/2015 at 18:42

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Yes, i really think i was going too fast but i dont think i will be doing it again. Lesson learned. Glad you didn't hit that mailbox too

E. Julius > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:45

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Yep, sometimes the lessons are learnt the hard way. Fortunately for both of us we didn’t damage anything but our spirits, but one can never count on being so lucky.

mitology > Nerd-Vol 05/10/2015 at 18:49

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You are right Nerd-Vol, will join an autocross event as soon as i can, was reckless and lucky to get away with it. Hope you still have your integra though :)

mitology > E. Julius 05/10/2015 at 18:51

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Indeed, hope to never go through it again

boxrocket > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:52

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First: Glad you are OK and the car seems OK. It's good to have incidents you can learn from.

Second: Drive the car to a DIY shop or a trusted mechanic so the suspension and wheel can actually be looked at. The change in alignment could be something simple like a mildly bent suspension/steering piece, or as severe as a bent body mount, as I've experienced, which could wind up making the vehicle unsafe to operate and totaled out.

Third: If you drive that aggressively, consider grippier tires. They don't last as long, but they're safer in similar situations.

Fourth: As for my experience with scary steering issues, I have three memorable ones.

1: As alluded to above, I totaled my first car by running into then over a tall curb: It was a poorly-lit street with a curbed curve without signage, and the lights that were above me went straight as they were attached to the row of apartment buildings rather than street poles, so I presumed the street followed that line and went straight, and didn't curve. Big oops on my part, which wound up bending my passenger side front door and fender, plus bending all the suspension parts (but not the axle, oddly), and the suspension mount area on the unibody, which would have been more than the value of the car to fix.

2: I had a rental Mazda3, which was a new model at the time, and had rave reviews about its handling prowess. I took a familiar and flat turn a bit faster than I normally would, and wound up sliding off the road into the grass field. No damage other than to my pride, but disheartening and scary, though part of that could have been attributed to rental car-grade tires. I'm more careful around that corner now, haha.

3: Shortly after I bought my 2nd Volvo wagon, I was making a slow, uphill left-hand turn in a four-way intersection. It had been raining before then and the roads were still damp, so I was being cautious. Even so, the tires broke loose, and I wound up going over the concrete median into oncoming traffic. I attributed this to the detestable Michelin Pilot MXM4s that came with the car, which I immediately - literally - replaced with a set of wonderful Yokohamas, and didn't have an issue afterwards.

mitology > whoarder is tellurium 05/10/2015 at 18:53

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Yikes, hope to never have to try that handbrake maneuver, sounds scary. Have you ever used it in autocross?

mitology > 1111111111111111111111 05/10/2015 at 18:55

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Hopefully oversteer will feel more controllable, what scared me the most was feeling helpless and at the mercy of the curb

whoarder is tellurium > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:56

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Also wanted to add ... I entered a wet on ramp once in my first Integra trying to follow my friends RWD car. I just about went off due to absolutely no front end traction. Would’ve gone right into a fenced area belonging to UPS lol.

Another time in my 2nd Audi and its first winter, I remember screwing around with how the AWD system worked and took a left handed corner a little fast. The front end suddenly gave way due to a large area of ice (who’da thunk). All I could see was the curb on the other side. So, eventually with some careful brake actuation, some handbrake, and reduction of steering angle...I softly hit almost parallel to the curb with my passenger side front wheel.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > mitology 05/10/2015 at 18:58

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A learning experience.
Without knowing the corner the only thing that might have helped would be some lift off oversteer.. but 160 was probably just too fast for that car on that corner.

No understeer scares for me, I struggle with oversteer in my MR2 every time it rains though. squeaky bum time every time I have to navigate a roundabout.

mitology > boxrocket 05/10/2015 at 18:59

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Thanks boxrocket, i dont think my pride would have survived that rental mazda experience though hahaha, I will go to the mechanic tomorrow sort it out and grippier tiers are on the list of things to get. Thanks again for your post

mitology > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 05/10/2015 at 19:02

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Ill be safer now for sure. Hahaha i can only imagine the stress when the forecast comes up with rain

mitology > whoarder is tellurium 05/10/2015 at 19:08

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Lol im thinking all jalops prefer RWD just ‘cuz understeer is all too scary and too common in FWD and AWD. I guess you kept a cool head on that Audi experience, hopefully i will learn how to keep the same

whoarder is tellurium > mitology 05/10/2015 at 19:10

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Autocross affords some experimentation along with competition. Its a fairly safe environment which means in the event that you do screw up, you can immediately stop the car and hopefully just kill some cones (and pride).

Its all about managing velocity, managing weight transfer and learning the limits of the tires and brakes. When you know the limits and can manage the above items, you can start to go faster and faster.

In your case, too much speed, too much steering angle and excessive weight transfer (further increased by FWD) on the front end had overwhelmed the friction ability of the tires.

1111111111111111111111 > mitology 05/10/2015 at 19:13

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Nothing like knowing you’re about to be fucked and nothing to do about It. I got stabbed in my 20s I just remember knife moving very slowly, and me also moving very slowly. Tachypsychy

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > mitology 05/10/2015 at 19:15

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I’ll have wider wheels and better tires on soon. I did once mount traffic island in a U12 Ford Corsair but that was less understeer and more lack of situational awareness.

mitology > 1111111111111111111111 05/10/2015 at 19:16

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Hopefully situations like that can be avoided in the future. Glad you got away ok

whoarder is tellurium > mitology 05/10/2015 at 19:19

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Well its true, in the Oppo way, if you are comfortable with oversteer and know how to react, it becomes quite natural.

However, on a day to day basis ... one generally “shouldn’t” (even though we’re all guilty) be doing any thing extreme enough to reach those types of situations. Obeying traffic laws and getting from A to B in the safest way possible is the proper way. Its not just about you and the car, it can also impact the lives of those around you too.

mitology > whoarder is tellurium 05/10/2015 at 19:19

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Indeed, it totally felt like the tires gave in, but i still feel like Honda did a great job with the front suspension here. Will be dreaming of RWD from now on though lol

mitology > whoarder is tellurium 05/10/2015 at 19:26

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Well said, im glad i was alone and only scared myself. Thanks

boxrocket > mitology 05/10/2015 at 20:56

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What makes the rental Mazda story worse is I was driving my now-wife back to work when it happened, so she is able to tease me about it at will.

TA4K > mitology 05/10/2015 at 22:26

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My Toyota Corona Exiv (celica based) has usually a 7/10 chance of swinging the back out round slower wet corners, but anything faster it will do whatever it feels like. Luckily its FWD so I can just countersteer and power out but I have experienced understeer when playing around in paddocks. And lots and lots of over steer and oppo. I also have experimented with what it feels like to have all 4 wheels locked up (no ABS) and it has taught me a lot about how the car reacts. Paddocks and parking lots my friend.

mitology > boxrocket 05/10/2015 at 23:58

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Hahahaha that's perfect, im betting every now and then she uses it just to keep you in check

mitology > TA4K 05/11/2015 at 00:02

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Maan, that sounds scary to drive lol but I believe it would make for a good learning experience especially since it had no ABS

boxrocket > mitology 05/11/2015 at 10:06

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Oh yes, definitely. Especially if I pick her up for a lunch date and we go around that curve, she'll remind me to take it slow, to the point where I took what is usually a 30mph turn at around 10mph once when there was no traffic behind me.

mitology > boxrocket 05/11/2015 at 16:25

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damn curves, life would be much better if all we had was straits everywhere lol

mitology > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 05/11/2015 at 16:26

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Lol i can only imagine the embarassment

NJAnon > mitology 07/26/2015 at 14:36

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I did the same thing; but in Gran Turismo. And yes understeer/FWD sucks.