Are We the Vocal Minority?

"KylesPerGallon" (gentlemandriver) 05/08/2015 at 11:37 • Filed to: None

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I just watched my first FR-S ad on TV. Granted I’m in my mid 20s now and I have begun the slow unrelenting march towards cutting the cable. But it’s been a couple years now since Toyota and Subaru released their FR collab. Why is it only now I’m seeing a ‘no money down’ ‘sign and drive’ commercial for what two years ago was the hottest thing on four wheels (that also came in under $30k). While I’m not saying that these commercials have never aired before, it seems very coincidental that my first Toyobaru ad comes amidst a very rough time for the little sports-car that could.

Toyota and Subaru both are seeing their dealer stock pile up. Were they pandering to the wrong crowd? From a business standpoint if sales of these vehicles continue to regress what does that say about our weight as a sector of the car buying market. I’m amazed sometimes how responsive companies are to those who would never put their money where their mouth is. A company like BMW or Porsche can justify giving us back a third pedal after hearing us shouty internet people whine and complain about the good old days when cars put hair on your chest, then lit that hair on fire after you slid into a tree. From their standpoint the vehicle is already made, having an enthusiast option or package is different from developing an entire enthusiast car. I think we can all agree that the GT86 twins [triplets?] were for a very specific breed of driver.

It’s like Ferrari being forced to invite some guy into an engineering meeting because he bought a pair of Rosso Corsa Pumas.

If you build it, they will come. And came they did, toll the bells, they shouted. For glory days have returned. Toyota and Subaru are here to save us from our cheap boring front wheel drive CVT slushboxes. We fed ourselves that narrative for a few years now. Of course, yea the ND Miata came out and we celebrated it as well, but the MX-5 was always a car that you either just ‘got’ or you didn’t. I know a few of you are saying, “who doesn’t like a miata?”. I fear as if we found out exactly how many enthusiasts there were for that market and once they all snatched up the car that was built for them, who else is left to continue the sales trend?

Of recent years we’ve seen what we hold onto as pillars of automotive prowess fade into obsolescence. Can you be mad at Lamborghini for shelving a gated shifter when you can count all the optioned cars on one hand? Should Porsche stop making SUVs because the purists demand they stay true to the brand? Why should these global companies take any stake in what the internet riff raff has to say? It’s like Ferrari being forced to invite some guy into an engineering meeting because he bought a pair of Rosso Corsa Pumas.

Whats most worrying about the decline in sales is that it undermines other companies from attempting an endeavor like this. I’m not saying AMG will go away, Mercedes will always be able to justify a performance department which nets them an extra $10-15 thousand per car. No, I fear that the decline in sales will result in R&D money being shifted away from similar projects because someone from accounting can point to the FR-S during a boardroom meeting and go, “See? They all said they would buy one and when the dust settled look how things turned out.”

I just really want a new S2000 Honda...I’ll buy one I pinky swear I’ll buy one.

Party-vi > KylesPerGallon 05/08/2015 at 11:43

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Automotive Enthusiasts: Putting Their Money Faaaaaaaaaaar from Where Their Mouths Are Since 1886.

For Sweden > Party-vi 05/08/2015 at 11:47

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I put my money in the grocery store.

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > Party-vi 05/08/2015 at 11:52

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*1768

Leadbull > For Sweden 05/08/2015 at 12:08

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You’re not fooling anyone; we all know that store is a front for mob activity.

Party-vi > Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready 05/08/2015 at 12:11

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How do you figure?

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > Party-vi 05/08/2015 at 12:16

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Because automobiles are not exclusively powered by forms of petroleum.

Scaggnetti > Party-vi 05/08/2015 at 12:17

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There are plenty of us that do put our money where our mouth is. We just need auto manufacturers to quit bullshitting us with prototypes we want, that resemble nothing like it when its production time. Everyone said they would buy an FRS, till they drove that turd and realised that a perfectly balanced 200 hp car is still boring as fuck. The twins COULD have been something, but they were under delivered and fell flat on their face for it.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > KylesPerGallon 05/08/2015 at 12:17

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I bought one. It’s an awesome car.

However, the act of buying it was not pleasant. I knew more than the dealer about the car. Took forever and got screwed on my trade in.

Moral of the story, go get a BRZ instead

B_dol > KylesPerGallon 05/08/2015 at 12:18

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This was the original ad Scion ran, targeting enthusiasts. Now they don’t need advertise to the gearheads, seeing as reviews and accolades came quickly.

Party-vi > Scaggnetti 05/08/2015 at 12:22

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Sorry, what enthusiast car did you buy new?

Party-vi > Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready 05/08/2015 at 12:24

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A trolley powered by water is not a damned automobile and you know it.

Forgetful > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 05/08/2015 at 12:24

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My experience was different. Didn’t have a trade in but the salesman was knowledgeable.

Moral of the story is YMMV.

Maybe you should have refused their offer on your trade and sold it privately, or tried a different dealer.

Justin Hughes > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 05/08/2015 at 12:26

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That’s a good point (no, not BRZ > FR-S). Dealers don’t seem to know how to sell these cars. My BRZ was the first one my salesman had ever sold, two years after they came out. He only sold it because I already knew exactly what I wanted, and he was the lucky guy who talked to me first.

All of the enthusiasts who said they’d buy one have already bought one by now. They haven’t made any changes except some paint and body kits - not the additional horsepower people who haven’t bought one want. And how do you cross sell an FR-S and a tC? They’re both sporty coupes and that’s where the similarity ends. Subaru has nothing else even remotely like it. Its the only 2WD car in their lineup and they’re known for AWD.

It’s a hard car to sell to non-enthusiasts. Enthusiasts who want more power aren't getting it. So now what?

Forgetful > KylesPerGallon 05/08/2015 at 12:28

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Is it because enthusiasts aren’t interested, or has the enthusiast market been a bit saturated lately?

There are so any performance bargain options now... Two entry level mustangs around 300hp, the ST brothers, a crazy Korean with a gnarly V6, Abarth, WRX/STi, the aforementioned Miata, and so on. It’s a tough game.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Forgetful 05/08/2015 at 12:39

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I considered selling my car privately, but at that point I was worn down. I just wanted my damn car. They did at least call me as soon as one was delivered that was the color I wanted. Nobody else even test drove it.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Justin Hughes 05/08/2015 at 12:41

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I bet they did try to talk people who were on the fence about an FR-S into a tC because it’s cheaper.

Scaggnetti > Party-vi 05/08/2015 at 12:54

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We just dumped our 10 SHO perf pack for a 15 Charger SRT 392. Prior I had a new 09 evo X, before that I bought a new STI in 04, 1998 240sx was my first new car I ever owned. The s14 is in my garage still, completely redone, I miss the subie dearly and the Evo X was literally the biggest pile of shit I have ever owned. Sorry, how many enthusiast cars have you bought?

Party-vi > Scaggnetti 05/08/2015 at 12:58

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Good for you - it seems like you’re one of the few that can afford to put your money where your mouth is.

I daily an E46 coupe (bought used) and I have a ‘49 Jeep hot rod. I understand that because I don’t buy new I have no place to bitch and moan about the disappearance of the manual transmission or the lack of entry-level performance vehicle offerings from most companies.

LongbowMkII > Forgetful 05/08/2015 at 12:59

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I imagine 2030 oppo will be filled with complaints about the mid 2010’s with all these choices.

and the article about the SR-71 speed check.

RightFootDown > KylesPerGallon 05/08/2015 at 13:00

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Mr Gentleman, interested in writing more? Please email jtaylor@rightfootdown.com.

Textured Soy Protein > KylesPerGallon 05/08/2015 at 13:01

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I remember seeing this ad for the FR-S a bunch maybe a year ago-ish.

Really the issue with the Toyobaru is that after the initial wave of people who have been clamoring for something like the Toyobaru rushed to buy their Toyobarus, there hasn’t been sustained demand for them.

Now they have to win general cheap performance car customers. People who are going to comparison shop. The Toyobaru is pretty much the slowest car (in a straight line) in its segment. Rwd is great but that’s not the only thing people look at.

Hell, back in the 90s Nissan had the exact same problem with the 240SX. Sure it was rwd when most of its competitors weren’t, but most of its competitors had anywhere from 30-60 hp more.

Slap the WRX motor in the Toyobaru. Drop the price on the non-turbo model by a couple grand, and charge a few grand more for the turbo. People will buy it. Especially current Toyobaru owners who like their cars but want more power.

For how little money it would cost to slap the WRX motor in there, they could easily make a return on their investment.

Scaggnetti > Party-vi 05/08/2015 at 13:07

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I only had a shitty tone because I was under the impression I had no business commenting on this topic. E46 is a great daily, I have never owned Bimmer but drool over them regularly. I daily a MS6 of all things(bought used as well), best 10k car ever.

Justin Hughes > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 05/08/2015 at 13:16

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A tC is far more practical too. Have you seen how much space there is when you lift the hatch? It makes me jealous! It’s the sporty looking car for the masses, not the enthusiast’s car.

Party-vi > Scaggnetti 05/08/2015 at 13:16

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I drool as well, but for some reason when I’m in them I can’t quite keep the lust-factor going.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Justin Hughes 05/08/2015 at 13:18

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It’s a Camry with a body kit, isn’t it? I haven’t found that many things I couldn’t fit in the FR-S though

I bought the car for the joy of driving it.

Justin Hughes > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 05/08/2015 at 13:24

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I don’t know what’s under the tC. I’m interested in cars that ARE sporty, not that just LOOK sporty.

So, what you said!

Rico > For Sweden 05/08/2015 at 13:28

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I put my groceries where my mouth is.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Justin Hughes 05/08/2015 at 13:30

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RWD Forever! Unfortunately my FR-S has been mostly DDing since I got my other project cars. I apex everything anyway

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > Party-vi 05/08/2015 at 14:31

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Well, it is mobile, and it moves itself, so even if it isn’t an actual automobile, it is at least auto-mobile.

Party-vi > Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready 05/08/2015 at 14:54

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listenhereyoulittleshit

Plecostomus is a starred commenter > Party-vi 05/12/2015 at 19:40

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Not really, I did what I said I would - I bought a Fiesta ST. It’s not like you can buy a new car on a regular basis.

Toyota fell short of the AE86 with the FR-S, namely in terms of practicality, interior quality and space. I owned an SR5 and I wanted to love the FR-S. And then it wasn’t as good as the 25 year old Toyota’s interior. It didn’t get better mileage. It didn’t hold more stuff. wtf.

So I voted with my wallet for the manufacturer offering the superior “New Car” product. Given how many FR-S are for sale, I don’t regret my decision, though Scion is probably rue-ing another unit they could’ve had sold had they actually looked at an AE86 when they were designing it rather than just throwing the number 86 at everything.

Plecostomus is a starred commenter > Scaggnetti 05/12/2015 at 19:42

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They fell flat on being as good as the 25-30 year old cars they claimed to harken to. Like, how, present Toyota, is it, that you can’t make an interior as good as you did in 1987? o_O like what the fuck. that shouldn’t be an issue.

and then the mileage. I’m okay with having a gutless 200hp car if it gets 35mpg... the FR-S doesn’t get close.

And then there’s the torque. I mean, when a naturally aspirated ROTARY engine has more torque than you, that’s not a good thing.

Toyota could’ve had a winner had it not focused exclusively on looks and marketing. There are so many shortcomings of the FR-S it’s sad.

Jake Stumph Racing > KylesPerGallon 05/15/2015 at 17:50

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Solid article, though I think that the Toyobarus have one fatal issue that plagues them amongst car enthusiasts who actually have the means to afford them. I was in the market, at the right time, and all aboard the hype train upon release. Then I drove one , actually a few of them, with various combinations of stock-manual, modified-manual, stock-auto, modified-auto.

The problem is the engine. Now wait, here me out on this one. Everyone pans the engine for only having 200hp, despite the fact that many of these detractors have never even owned a vehicle with as much as 200hp. That isn’t the problem, 200 horsepower can be plenty, look at what the MX-5 can manage with a meager 160. The issue is the character of the engine. It lacks urgency and freneticism. The engine never urges the driver to wring it out for every last ounce of power, instead, drivers are wringing it out for every last ounce of power only because it’s slow, see the difference? However, it can’t afford to be lazy like a big V8 due it’s lack of torque and weak torque curve. Look at a typical GT86 dyno plot, it’s pathetic, what with the torque dip in the middle of the power band and anemic peak figures.

You yourself mentioned the S2000, another car, that while not a torque monster (by any stretch of the word), provided enthusiasts with a willing engine, and a stratospheric RPM redline to chase after. There’s character there. The driver’s interactions with the S2000 are so much more enjoyable, the clutch is weighted nicely for the application, and the shifter seems to have been milled from Zeus’ personal ore and then touched by the hand of the almighty God himself (insert Initial-D Godhand jokes here). In comparison, the GT86 has a digital clutch and a ho-hum gear change.

The 86 has a lot of redeeming features, and can be the basis of an excellent sports car, but for a car chiefly designed for “driving pleasure,” it has missed the mark, and that’s a damn shame, because cars like this only come about once in a blue moon.