"MegaSuper" (megasuper)
04/25/2015 at 10:26 • Filed to: None
3
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"MegaSuper" (megasuper)
04/25/2015 at 10:26 • Filed to: None | 3
| 15 |
(I posted this before but didn’t get a concrete answer, so I’m reposting at a different time of day.)
Just a thing I noticed from reading different car magazines from around the globe: Take for instance, the Nürburgring in Germany or Silverstone in the UK. You show up, usually pay a fee, and then you do laps to your hearts content. In the cases of some UK tracks, passing is only allowed on straightaways. Time with an instructor is optional. Some tracks have an open pit lane, meaning once you get bored or hungry you can just park up in a garage, get a bite to eat, and then go back out to the track. There are drive-by noise limits, but maybe that’s it. You can take a passenger as long as they sign a form acknowledging that it’s dangerous.
On the other hand, from what I’ve read about tracks in the US/Canada, you can only go to a track if it’s part of a “High-Performance Driving Event,” or a specific make/model’s owner’s club has rented out the entire track for the day. So you have to book in advance, there has to be room, your car has to have a full safety inspection, perhaps a rollcage may be required, you’re not allowed out on the track without an instructor if you haven’t gone to a few events before, no passengers at all until you’re at a higher skill level. (Some I think have different “skill levels” that determine if you’re allowed to pass at all, and if you do, other drivers have to “point” or something like that. Not sure how it works) Compared to a track in the UK for example, you can’t just drive up to Laguna Seca and say, “Hey, when’s your next open track day?” because the answer is “never”, at least from what I’ve read.
Have I got it wrong? It just seems as though there’s much more open access in Europe in general, particularly the UK/Germany/some smaller circuits in France and Spain. The only “show up and go” type tracks I’ve read about in the US are drag strips. If it is in fact more restricted in the US/Canada, it is it a lawsuit/liability thing? Just curious as to why it hasn’t caught on. Whenever a Fast & Furious movie comes out, there are always articles talking about “Take it to the track!” and stuff like that (and rightly so!), my North American friends tell me “I don’t even know where you’d go to do that” or “You’d need $$$$$ to rent the entire track for a day, otherwise it ain’t happening.”
Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 10:35 |
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Scca now has Track Nights in America to try and get more people involved in racing as well as individual tracks doing track days where as long as you have a helmet and cash you’re welcome to drive. Google is your friend :p
MysticStick
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 11:00 |
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You are not wrong. Track days are fairly easy to get in on, but nothing exists here like the Nürburgring.
Little Black Coupe Turned Silver
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 11:14 |
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I’ll try to address a few of your points. I work at one of the more well known tracks in the States, where I answer the phone and field the “Can I come drive around the track?” calls so I have a good handle on this. I’ve also been driving in track days for 4 years now, mainly at the track where I work. That being said, this all just applies to where I work, other tracks will vary.
(I’m typing out a longer response, but wanted to get this posted... Will edit or reply when I’m done.)
Montalvo
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 11:21 |
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Well one thing is that the Nürburgring is not a track it is actually a toll road. Also the larger tracks it probably is possible to do something like that because they have the staff on hand, the smaller tracks not so much. There is also the whole question of sorting out liability and making sure there are provisions made for safety. In the U.S. people like to sue others for just about anything and I am sure that the owners like to have all the bases covered. It makes more financial sense to have set days instead of being open and possibly taking a hit on a regular basis. Track days and owner clubs, gives a bit of self policing and the additional support makes things a lot easier for both parties.
Racescort666
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 11:27 |
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You are pretty much right with the way it is in the US (I can’t speak for Canada but it’s probably true for there too). Most of it has to do with liability.
Most race tracks would love to be open but there are a number of things that keep them from just throwing the doors opened and letting people lap to their heart’s desire. As far as I’ve seen, most of the powers that be involved in race tracks have a real passion for cars and driving but the biggest thing preventing them from throwing the doors opened is insurance.
If the track is closed and nobody’s on it, they don’t have to pay for insurance. So that’s part of it. Another part is that their insurance underwriter usually has a number of requirements if someone is going to be using the track, emergency personnel, corner workers, etc all of whom need to be paid. Usually you’re looking at staff levels like what you’d see for a race at least from a safety standpoint. All of that adds up to be very expensive and unavoidable simply to open the doors.
So, what happens most of the time, track days are organized by various car clubs who have their own insurance and safety rules that can be used in place of the track’s (as long as the underwriters agree) and they want to make sure that they have enough participants so they don’t end up losing a bunch of money. The goal is to break even since the clubs are non-profit.
Hopefully that explains part of it for you. Th rest of it is really just having to deal with the organizing club and whatever their rules are since by that point, the track is really not involved.
Confused Miata
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 11:34 |
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At my local track they have open drag racing Friday nights, open track time Friday days for $120. They also run Motorcycles Saturdays and Sundays and some clubs have their own days. There's an hour long class for new drivers for drag and a multi hour class to go solo on the road course that's $200 one time. They use the pointing method for passing on straightaways and you only need a helmet and a car that's not falling apart.
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Little Black Coupe Turned Silver
> Little Black Coupe Turned Silver
04/25/2015 at 11:37 |
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It’s a massive insurance issue. It’s also very expensive to have a properly staffed race track open for people to drive around it. Race control, corner workers, safety/EMS teams, recovery teams.
Your best bet is going through one of the groups/clubs that have already rented the track. I’ve never seen one of the clubs like Porsche, Audi or BMW not allow other brands to be there, you might have to pay for a “weekend membership” but they are like an extra $20. There are also non-brand specific clubs out there. The track I work at is in the process of setting up their own events, hopefully before the end of the season.
Some of these private rentals will let you walk up and register at the event, if they have room. And usually for an additional fee. If you like to live dangerously and pay more money, go ahead. I prefer to register right away for events, since there are generally early-bird discounts. Groups will also want to know how many instructors they need to have on hand.
Do some homework into how each club sets up their events. Almost all of them are going to have right-seat instructors for new drivers (or those new to that specific track, at least for a session or two.) Groups that will send out new drivers alone... I would stay away. People want safe events, where they are not worried that the person driving behind/ahead of them is a danger to others. You put in the time and work your way up from Novice.
Technical inspections vary by the group putting on the event. Some are as simple as tuning in some paperwork where you swear your car is fit to be out there, and you take full responsibility for what happens. Some make you do a quick drive-though inspection, where the big things are addressed and checked. Fluid levels, tires, battery is secure; things like that. Again, this is all for safety. I’ve never heard of a full cage being required for a simple track day. Some groups will require convertibles to have a roll bar, that varies by track and group.
Passing rules are going to vary by the track layout. If there’s only one or two places for Novice drivers to pass safely, well, so be it. As your skills increase and you move up the higher run groups, more passing zones will open up to you. Same with giving point-bys. Safety is more important, and having the person you are passing acknowledge you are there is important.
The SCCA is starting a new program this season, at many tracks across the country. They are generally half day events that give around two hours of track time, at a very reasonable rate. They are a great way to get people out and see what track days are all about. They are designed to be more of the show up and drive type events, but will still prefer to have people pre-register so they have enough instructors on hand for new drivers.
John Norris (AngryDrifter)
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 14:03 |
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In North Georgia there is a country club track where you can buy a membership and “... just show up and drive” as long as it fits within the member schedule. The rent it out for events as well.
http://www.atlantamotorsportspark.com/
https://www.facebook.com/atlantamotorsp…
e36Jeff now drives a ZHP
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 16:10 |
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Honestly, I wouldn’t want to be on an open track with a bunch of people who may or may not have had seat time on a track before with cars that may or may not be up to the task of being on a track with no instructor in the car to keep they reigned in. Mostly because some people don’t like getting passed, and even with instructors in the car its difficult to get the point by. Especially when they are in a technically faster car. Being stuck in a conga line out on the track is about the most boring thing you can possibly do. It’s no different than driving to work, except you will see the exact same things every 2 minutes.
If you actually want to learn how to drive at a track, just go to one of the BMW or Porsche car club outings. The safety inspection is fairly straightforward, at least with the BMW clubs, you can do it in your garage with a hydraulic jack, or you can pay a mechanic to do it for you. The only thing they will specifically require is that your brake fluid is less than 6 months old. The on site inspection is just checking your engine for leaks, checking the tires for blisters, checking the suspension for play, the brakes for pad depth, and checking your helmet for the required certifications. It takes about 2 minutes to complete, and if you fail the inspection, you really shouldn’t be on the track in the first place. I can’t speak for all the BMW clubs or the Porsche clubs, but I know the NJ chapter and the DE chapters of the BMW clubs don’t have any kind of requirements in terms of what kind of car you drive or if you are in the club. The only time being in the club is useful is if you get in late and are put on the waiting list, club members go before non-members.
If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
> MegaSuper
04/25/2015 at 16:26 |
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I think most if not all of the more well-known tracks require a membership with the SCCA or some other club.
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MegaSuper
> Little Black Coupe Turned Silver
04/26/2015 at 07:25 |
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Wow, thank you for this fabulously detailed post!
I looked at that SCCA thing you were talking about. It looks like they have some open nights at various tracks around the country.
From what it says on their site though, it sounds like most American insurance companies specifically mention that coverage is NOT provided at race tracks, so they have some deal with an insurance company. The deductible is a few thousand dollars.
What does it mean when it says that liability is not covered? So does that mean that if, let’s say, you overshoot the corner, and plow into the Ferrari in front of you, the insurance company will pay for your car and the other driver’s car, but if he says “Ow my back” he can sue you for a gazillion dollars? I’d imagine that would be a real limiting factor for otherwise curious American drivers.
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MegaSuper
> John Norris (AngryDrifter)
04/26/2015 at 07:26 |
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Thanks for the link, this was an interesting read! Probably the closest to how it is in the EU, but expensive because it’s membership-based! I guess they have to pay for their track insurance somehow...
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MegaSuper
> Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
04/26/2015 at 07:27 |
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Yes I looked at it, very interesting!
I see that they offer their own trackday insurance, but what does it mean when it says that liability is not covered? Does that mean that if it’s your fault for causing a collision out on the track, the other driver can sue you into oblivion?
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MegaSuper
> If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
04/26/2015 at 07:28 |
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How does the SCCA work in that regard? Is it just a matter of having money, or do you have to earn a racing license of some kind through them?
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> John Norris (AngryDrifter)
04/26/2015 at 16:14 |
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Harris Hill is like this as well, I believe.