How would you fix Scion?

"Zohaibman72" (zohaibman72) 04/16/2015 at 11:20 • Filed to: Scion

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Toyota's youth brand Scion is... pretty odd. It doesn't have many cars that really attract youths, and introduced what is basically a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to their line up. Not what I think the brand should be.

There are some !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! but what do you personally think should happen? Should it be axed? More RWD models?

I think the company should completely axe itself and remove every car except the Scion FRS and iM. A RWD Sedan should be added to the line up based off the Lexus IS, minus the luxury. A bare bones Lexus IS. These should be the two sportier models of the line up. The iM should get a light sport package with more power and more aggressive styling, targeted at the Focus ST crowd. I feel like focusing the brand being focus on "students", "youth" and "value" isn't the best idea due to the fact the Corolla and Yaris already existing. The Corolla and Yaris do what Scion was created for, cheap cars for young people. The brand should be pushed in a sportier direction but still below Lexus. Similar to what the Toyota exec said in the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Toyota's Pontiac essentially. I've personally never been a fan of axeing brands or cars, because I just enjoy seeing variety for some reason.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:21

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A mercy killing.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:22

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Kill it with fire.

Zohaibman72 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/16/2015 at 11:24

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rip

thebigbossyboss > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:24

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Shoot it.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:28

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i'd give it the Mercury/HUMMER/Pontiac/Plymouth treatment.

HammerheadFistpunch > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:30

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Seriously, It offers nothing that Toyota couldn't.

Zohaibman72 > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/16/2015 at 11:30

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Hummer is the only one of those I don't miss.

jariten1781 > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:30

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If they actually want it to succeed they should shift the base trims of the Corolla over to it.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:31

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Re-badge as Toyota's. FR-S is Celica, tC is Corolla Trueno (Or vice-versa, doesn't matter). Also, axe the xB, or extend the wheelbase (a la the Ford Flex).

Giving the cars new badges is a little to no cost fix, and would hugely improve the perceived quality and value of those cars. It might also help those vehicles reach demographics that would never be caught dead in a scion.

Bairclaw > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:31

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I agree. As someone who fits perfectly into the category that scion is aiming to. I can tell you the only car I want to drive is the FRS. I would drive the Tc as well but I don't want it in the way I do the FRS. Everything else is meh. So keep those two cars and make a sporty sedan (even though tough the Corolla s is already around). And maybe one or two more cars.

TheHondaBro > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:34

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Youths wind up in cheap used Hondas and Toyotas. If Toyota wants Scion to appeal to youths, they should do two things:

Make cheap, simple cars that fit in a low insurance bracket.

Make lightweight, competitive sports cars that youths also like.

So far, the FRS is the only Scion that's vaguely Scion-ish, but it's a bit too expensive to be a viable option for youths.

They basically need to overhaul their entire lineup and do what it says on the tin.

Sam > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:34

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I don't think it needs to exist. Just fold the FR-S into Toyota's lineup. Also, they can bring the tC along, but make it truly sportier than the Corolla. In fact, a turbo'd tC may make a cool Focus ST competitor.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:34

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Personally I'd advocate for not starting the brand in the first place...

But anyways, looking at the cars.

FR-S: Keep

iM: Keep. Add sport.

xB: The trend has gone kill or redesign.

tC: It almost the same as ten years ago. Massive Redesign or kill.

iQ: Not for this country.

Cars to add:

Tall iQ, think Buick Encore/ Chevy Trax.

Mid-Size sedan. Based off Lexus but design it to be very different so they don't look comparable.

Convertible. Whether its a FR-S or a redesigned tC it would be good.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:35

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1: Make tC have a hatch option, have optional all-track model, change name to Celica

2: Change FR-S to GT-86, change trunk to lift-back, add shooting brake and convertible options

3: Revert xB to original model

optional extra: change name to Toyota.

Zohaibman72 > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 04/16/2015 at 11:35

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I actually agree with this completely. It'd even be logical to keep the names. FR-S should be changed to it's international name, the Toyota 86. Much cooler name, considering the FRS already has 86 badging.

If I had to pick names, I'd change TC to Toyota Sprinter. Technically Toyota Corolla Sprinter, but just do the "Toyota Camry Solara" treatment and call it Toyota Solara. xB is unnecessary with the Yaris to me. Axe that. Maybe instead of a Ford Flex, bring back the Camry Wagon. Which will probably never happen, sadly.

Zohaibman72 > TheHondaBro 04/16/2015 at 11:36

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Scion FRS in a youth brand

Scion FRS insurance out of this goddamn world.

Thanks Toybama.

LongbowMkII > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:37

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econocar (IA will probably work) 15k

Quirky hatch (proper xB) 17k

Sporty car (corolla coupe, new tC) 20k

Sports car (FRS) 25k

Small crossover (corolla based) 22k

Fix the marketing. No one takes Scion seriously because of this.

Zohaibman72 > Sam 04/16/2015 at 11:37

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FRS belongs in Toyota. International name is Toyota 86 and FRS can get 86 badging.

TheHondaBro > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 04/16/2015 at 11:37

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The FRS is the new AE86, the tC is the Celica.

Zohaibman72 > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 04/16/2015 at 11:39

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I think a Camry-based mid-size with a focus on value and highest trim having a more powerful V6 than the Camry. Camry more focued on middle-class luxury and comfort Scion Camry focused on sportier, tight suspension.

I mean actual sporty Camry, not Toyota's typical idea of BOLD. Get TRD to work on it.

Zohaibman72 > LongbowMkII 04/16/2015 at 11:41

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They have all of these, I wouldn't say the iM is quirky but it fits. It's the way they make them look too much like a Toyota that makes Scion seem pointless. Totally agree with the marketing.

RAV4 based smaller Rav 4.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:45

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I'd say Pontiac was the ony one worth keeping as it was fairly unique from the other offereings. HUMMER was an embarrassment to the name and Mercury and plymouth wern;t anything special any more.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:47

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Okay, okay, to be fair, scion has some good product. But here's how I describe Scion in one sentence - A sub-brand of toyota that accidentally achieved it's goal from time to time. Most scion buyers are older, the scion products tend to be a generation behind the competition, and in general the brand is an odd step from "I buy used cars" to "I buy new cars" by being a bunch of simple, low cost cars to introduce you to the "toyota family".......Which fails because no one makes the connection! Only car enthusiasts really "know" this fact. Which in a way is good because it means scion stands out and isn't as "beige". But at the same time the xB became a middle aged chariot because it's "quirky". Quirky isn't a youth thing, it's a parent thing. Controversy and revolution are "youth" things.

Even if they sold in limited numbers, doing things like say.....selling a car in primer or white and giving you the ability to paint the car yourself? I'm intrigued. If nothign else, I'll spend half an hour on your site looking at the car and thinking about what I would do. The iQ was a nice idea in theory, but it failed because it was never even considered for our roads and driving habits. Plus it was still 13,000 or something which gets you any number of other cars. I know size isn't everything but it really was a lot of money for very little product. I think that, as bad a this sounds, "superficial" uniqueness is what scion needs. It can be a toyota under the sheetmetal, but make it look crazy. Go nuts. The iM should've been left as an insane looking tuner inspired little runabout. But the way it launched? The mazda 3 looks like more of a risk taker.

You know what? There's the contradiction for me - Scion was a gamble on not taking gambles. Play it the safe and quirky route with toyota powertrain and hope that the low pricing will get the youths. Don't innovate. Don't rock the boat. What worked once will work forever. Do it the toyota way......and completely ruin any point in the brand.

Textured Soy Protein > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:49

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Scion's entire "youth" strategy started out with 3 things:

1. Cheap JDM-ish vehicles that were actually kinda unique.

2. Lots of modifications available as dealer accessories.

3. No-haggle pricing.

The xB when it first came out actually somewhat fulfilled the goals of getting a bunch of young people to buy them and buy a bunch of dealer accessories.

But the cheap-n-cheerful car modding scene has only shrunk since then, and all Toyota has done in the meantime is make the cars themselves more boring (with the exception of the FR-S).

I see lots of xB taxis when I go to Chicago though. They're actually kinda perfect as taxis.

spanfucker retire bitch > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 11:57

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Just take this. This exactly. Don't tone down the styling - just make it legal. Slap a Scion badge on it. Make the tC a 4-door sport sedan using an extended RWD architecture that this is based on.

As far as fixing the rest of Scion's lineup - that's up to you Toyota. You don't even pay me for these ideas, I can't fix the whole brand for free.

dogisbadob > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 12:02

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Scion is stupid, and they should just sell them as Toyotas. In fact, They're actually registered as Toyota Scion [model], so by the way they incorporated Scion, that might be very easy with little if any financial penalty. And remember, all Scion dealers are Toyota dealers. (Also worth noting that none of the above applies to Lexus)

But if they insist on keeping Scion, then here's what they do:

The TC and FR-S need a rear wiper to be standard.

There'd be a TC XRS with a supercharged or turbo engine.

The FR-S would have a base model with 160 hp version of the 2.0L boxer, then the current engine, and finally a turbo with like 300 hp. A sunroof would be available across the board.

The iQ needs the manual option available overseas. All the Cygnet trim would be available thru the Scion Accessories Catalog.

Bring back the XA and XB, and don't fatten them up and Americanize them this time. Sunroof would be standard on both.

The iA is stupid because it's not a real Toyota, but rather, a rusty Mazda. They should just use a JDM Toyota sedan we don't get over here. Both the iA and iM would have a sunroof standard.

The iM would be available in ALL of the Auris' body styles. 2-door hatch, 4-door hatch, and the wagon. Diesel and hybrid versions would be available.

Maybe the Prius C would also be a Scion. Call it the Scion Aqua.

Actually, instead of the 2-letter garbage, why not just use real names? Names they already have. Aqua, Auris, ist, bb, GT86 (actually, it should be called Toyota Celica, but Scion Celica would suffice), Zelas (TC).

Zohaibman72 > spanfucker retire bitch 04/16/2015 at 12:07

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This should be a Toyota and called the Supra, is what I think. Scion shouldn't have a single car that starts over 30k, in my opinion

spanfucker retire bitch > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 12:12

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Then Scion should just be killed off, as there's no reason for it to exist anymore. It's supposed to be the exciting sub-brand for young enthusiasts. You remove that, and what do you have left? A bunch of cheap cars that a bunch of old people buy that could just as easily purchase Toyotas instead.

BKosher84 > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 12:17

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Burn it to the damned ground. All of it. Every. Single. Piece.

jvirgs drives a Subaru > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 04/16/2015 at 12:28

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"Tall iQ, think Buick Encore/ Chevy Trax."

You could call it the High iQ

Bah Dum Tssss.

I'll show myself out.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 15:03

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I would fix Scion by shutting it down. Then I'd move the former Scion models to the Toyota brand.

The FR-S would become the Celica.

All the other names would be kept the same, more or less... just under the Toyota badge.

LongbowMkII > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 15:54

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the iM isn't very quirky. They aren't that far off in all actuality. But the issue isnt really that the cars are bad, just poorly directed.

wiffleballtony > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 20:04

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Toyota needs to evaluate their brand itself before worrying about Scion or Lexus.

ranwhenparked > Zohaibman72 04/16/2015 at 20:09

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I'd go one of two directions.

1. Use it as a dedicated small car brand and bring over JDM Toyota and Daihatsu subcompact and city car models, and move all the stuff with mainstream appeal over to the Toyota marque.

2. Turn it into a niche performance brand a la what GM tried to do with Pontiac - risky, since cars like that might still sell better as Toyotas.

Either way, I'd give them exactly one full new product cycle to prove the new plan works, if not, the brand would be dead by the end of it.