Why 0-60 times are sometimes bullshit.

"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
04/09/2015 at 05:30 • Filed to: None

I recently traded in my Panda for a 1.2 Twingo. The stats suggested that I'd be in for a hell of a performance decrease (12.6s 0-60 up to 14s) but I found in every day driving the Twingo actually feels slightly quicker (don't mistake this for me saying it's actually quick, it's a very slow car).

This is where my point comes in, when they measure 0-60 it's a relatively competent driver maxing the car. However in day to day driving you tend to pull away at much lower revs since you don't want to ruin your car. The Panda when pulling away at over 3000rpm was much quicker than than the Twingo at similar revs, since it was at high enough revs to be on boost. This however would absolutely destroy the clutch if you did it regularly. Pulling away at anything below 2000rpm the turbo lag was so comical that the Twingo would leave it behind. So in town driving the slower car by numbers, is actually the faster car.

I imagine there are a lot of other cars where this would also apply. 0-60 isn't everything.

DISCUSSION (32)

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 05:37

The Twingo is a great little car for city use and yet still competent on long journeys.

Glad you're enjoying her.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend
04/09/2015 at 05:40

Did 120 miles yesterday in it and it was much more comfortable than the Panda was. You notice the power deficit when overtaking but it'll still get the job done.

Definitely enjoying it more than the Fiat where I was just hoping to make it home haha.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 05:44

If you want any car stuff (washing) sent. Let me know. O looked after a black Twingo for three years and she always came up good.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend
04/09/2015 at 05:48

Thanks for the offer, I'll look into that stuff more when the wax the dealer put on it starts to wear off, she looks pretty good for now. I never used to wash the Panda other than to remove salt because the paint on it was already ruined. The Twingo only has a few minor scratches that polish covers and one tiny door ding so I'll be more bothered about caring for it.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 05:52

I have some Gtechniq P1 polish for that. It's a water based, non diminishing pad dependent polish. Topped with C2v3 or washed with Gyeon Bathe+ leave a great protection and easy to maintain.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend
04/09/2015 at 06:05

I like that easy to maintain part haha. I can't wash cars on my street but there's a place nearby where you pay Ł2 and get a bay with warm water and a pressure washer for a while. I tend not to use the pressure washers there though, on our older cars they end up stripping off paint and generally making things worse. Then I'll just apply polishes and such at home.

Sam > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 06:13

My 924 has terrible 0-60. But the burble when I let off the throttle in 3rd and 4th gear makes it all worth it. It sound like it wants to be a big, tough car.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 06:15

This is the Bathe+

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Sam
04/09/2015 at 06:22

This is the thing, driving experience matters much more than the stats. There were several other small hatches that fit my requirements that were a fair bit quicker, but they just didn't feel right to me in general. You can't quantify whether you'll like a car or not, only a good drive will tell you that.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend
04/09/2015 at 06:24

That's pretty impressive. The last car I cleaned was my girlfriends and we used some Halfords car shampoo her parents had lying around. I didn't exactly leave a perfect finish... That car is so rusty it hardly matters though.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 06:55

I've been detailing for the last four years (as a hobby) and products have changed massively in the last 12 months. It really is a maze of companies and products.

Tekamul > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 07:04

Magazines have begun publishing 5-60 numbers along side 0-60 for this reason. It's surprising how many cars are significantly slower in the 5-60.

Car and Driver's WRX tests showed 0-60 at 4.8, 5-60 at 6.3. Without the static tire friction and huge clutch burn, it went up a lot.

samssun > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 07:09

Welcome to torque (sorta). This is why we have 5-60 times.

Flavien Vidal > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 07:20

I beat you all!

My 92 mini does 0 to 60 in over 21s. I promiss you it is more fun and feels a LOT faster than any twingo or panda haha :)

Mattbob > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 07:26

this is similar to why a small diesel feels quick off the line, but will lag behind a similar sized gas motor up to 60. Low end torque is important.

Tareim - V8 powered > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 08:01

0-60 times are only good for those who want to drag race so I mostly tend to ignore them nowadays, after all I didn't get my BRZ for it being quick in a straight line

Zohaibman72 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 08:04

The 2015 Honda Fit has 0-60 time of 7.8s, which is the exact same as my hybrid Camry.

My Camry feels sluggish and underwhelming when I slam on the accelerator, yet the Fit gives the sensation its much faster than it is.

Its probably because the Camry weighs more than twice as heavy as the Fit

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Tekamul
04/09/2015 at 09:10

I like it when magazines have rolling start tests. There was one here that had 40-70 times that basically tell you how good the car is if you want to merge onto the motorway, that's more useful for most than 0-60.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Flavien Vidal
04/09/2015 at 09:11

Haha I bet it does, there's some fun in older little cars. They feel like you're doing twice the speed you actually are.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Mattbob
04/09/2015 at 09:11

It's the same with gas powered smaller turbo engines, like the 1 litre ecoboost.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Tareim - V8 powered
04/09/2015 at 09:12

I glance at them to get a little idea of how cars compare to each other, but I don't assume they tell anywhere near the full story.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Zohaibman72
04/09/2015 at 09:13

Yeah cars can often feel slower or quicker than they actually are. That's why small hot hatches are such good fun.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend
04/09/2015 at 09:14

I barely know where to start. My grandad just buys Autoglym because it's what he knows and reasonably priced.

Tekamul > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 09:23

Yeah, 0-60 times are just a pissing contest, and with things like automated launch control, they just have zero relevance outside a drag strip or TV show.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 09:47

There's loads. Such as Gtechniq, Poorboys, Mothers, 303, 3M, Britemax, Bilt Hamber, Belgom, Chemical Guys, Collinite, Dodo Juice, Gilmour, Eurow, Menzerna, Meguiars, Lake County, Sonax, Valet Pro, Sonus, Zaino, Auto Finesse, Auto Smart, Gyeon, Nanolex, Swissvax, Wolfs, R222, etc...

But a good start is a good shampoo, two buckets and a wash mitt or closed cell sponge (grouting sponge, not supermarket car sponge which is open cell and will rub grit over your car), dried off with a microfibre towel and followed by a good protectant like a sealant or wax. A good glass cleaner is a good idea also but anything else is extra really.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend
04/09/2015 at 09:57

I have a microfibre mitt, microfibre towel and chamois at the moment. They're still brand new in the packaging because I was so lazy with the Fiat...

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 10:03

Keep the chamois in the packaging. Unless the car is fully clean when your about to dry it you will rub any remaining grit into the paintwork. They are still usable for wiping down interior surfaces. Get them wet first and wring them out and then wipe over the dash etc... The MF towel is great and will protect your paintwork much better if there is any grit or traffic film left behind.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend
04/09/2015 at 10:06

Thanks for the tip. Any time I've cleaned cars for others I used a chamois to get rid of any streaks or watermarks. Never really though about it rubbing grit across the paint.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 10:29

This is Paul Dalton. He's a good bloke and is always open for a chat if he's not busy.

Ignore the prices and numbers both of them come out with as it's not that expensive to do. Paul just has his preferences. He's stopped using a lot of the stuff he talks about in this video and you'll notice he washes the car before the wheels, it's generally best practice to wash the wheels first so as when you wash the car you can rid the paint of any dirt that may of splashed back from when cleaning the wheels, rinse out the bucket thoroughly before using it to wash the car.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 10:36

Better video with less waffling on.

Tareim - V8 powered > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 11:33

No they don't tell the full story unfortunately, take the BRZ for example, the difference between the manual and the auto on some sites shows a 1s difference and that's only due to the fact that you can dump the clutch on a manual to properly launch the car whereas the torque converter on the auto limits the amount of revs you can do at a standing start

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/09/2015 at 19:22

That's why some 'slower' diesels feel faster than some 'faster' gasoline engines in day to day driving.